Talk:F-35 Lightning II

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	F-35 Lightning II is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article Milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.
	This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on July 17, 2006.
Article Milestones Date Process Result January 26, 2006 Featured article candidate Not promoted February 3, 2006 Peer review Reviewed February 12, 2006 Featured article candidate Promoted November 12, 2006 Featured article review Demoted Current Status: Former featured article

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Contents 1 coolant? 2 We need a new section for the testing of the F-35 3 Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm 4 Specs for CTOL, STOVL, CV Models 5 reduced orders 6 J-10 as a comparable aircraft? 7 F-22 8 Classified capability 9 Link to Video of 60 Minutes Story 10 Specifications 11 Users

[edit] coolant?

Does the fact that the F-35 will be using a cold air lifting fan mean that it won't need to expend coolant when taking off or landing vertically, thus giving it unlimited hovering time?

perfectblue 14:39, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Well you've got to remember it uses a lot of fuel to hover, and there isn't unlimited fuel. This obviously means it can't hover forever. :) X360 00:03, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] We need a new section for the testing of the F-35

The aircaft has made three test flights so there should be a new section on the testing. X360 11:33, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't know that a whole new section is needed for that just yet. A sentence or two would be fine. Askari Mark (Talk) 01:01, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm

should the Royal Navy be on the list of primary users. i always thought most of the british involvement was down to the RN. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pratj (talk • contribs) 20:42, 9 February 2007 (UTC).

Do you mean in the Infobox at the top of the page? According to [[WP:Air/PC:Wikipedia:WikiProject Aircraft/page content ]], the Infobox is limited to 4 users maximum. As of right now, the four listed are the 4 largest users in terms if numbers to be purchased, tho this could change. I have yet to see any info that the RAF is no longer going to be using the F-35, though if you have a verifiable source, please tell. - BillCJ 00:54, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Specs for CTOL, STOVL, CV Models

What is the best way to code the specification section to better reflect the different models?

Example, Wing span on the CTOL/STOVL is 35ft yet on the CV it is 43 ft

Wing area 460 sq ft for the CTOL/STOVL and 668 sq ft for the CV

All three have different empty weights too. 29,036 CTOL, 32,161 STOVL and 32,072 CV

Internal fuel, CTOL is 18480 pounds, STOVL is 14003 pounds, CV is 20085 pounds

I think this is important enough to show but of course would like to know opinions on this.

ELPusa 00:45, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] reduced orders

I read in the Australian press that the USAAF will halve it's order but haven't seen anything here (wiki) nor can I find a reliable source. Any word? Brettr 04:16, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Cost-of-new-fighters-may-blow-out/2007/02/22/1171733928733.html quotes the head of the Australian Defence Materiel Organisation as saying that possible US cuts are the F-35 program's greatest risk and Lockheed-Martin as saying that there's been no cutback in US orders. As such, the issue seems to be that while its likely that US orders will be cut this hasn't happened yet (BTW, its the USAF now ;) ). --Nick Dowling 10:45, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

The 7 February issue of Jane's Defence Weekly has an article which states that the cuts are contained in the proposed US defence budget which is yet to be approved. --Nick Dowling 06:46, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

interesting comments, thanks Nick. Brettr 08:18, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] J-10 as a comparable aircraft?

Should the Chinese new J-10 fighter be considered as a comparable aircraft to the F-35? From what I understand, J-10's combat performance is about equal or slightly better than the F-16C/D and I think J-10 is no where close to other comparable aircrafts listed there such as Typhoon, Rafale, F-22 and PAK FA MiG-1.44.

[edit] F-22

The F-22 is in a league of it's own. As such the F-22 should not be in the comparable aircraft section. Nothing that flies today is comparable to the F-22. Angus Houston, Cheif of the Australian Defence Forces, Formerly head of the Royal Australian Air Force - "F-22 will be the most outstanding fighter plane ever built."

That is HARDLY an objective assesment, and you certainly are not a verifiable source. If you can find one to quote, fine. Until then, please be civil. - BillCJ 01:30, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

League of its own? the Eurofighter maintains a similar level of performance at half the price. the major advantage of the F22 over the Eurofighter is stealth capability. something the Eurofighter isn't totaly without. Plus its built by Europeans which is always a positive when it comes to engineering. Look at Cars, need i say more. (01:00, 30 March 2007) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.96.157.118 (talk • contribs).

Although I see your point, I do not agree that the F-22 should be removed. The difference is not in quality of the aircraft, it is in the size and hence its intended capacities. The F-35 and the F-22 are built on the same thinking, and much of the technology from the F-22 has been adopted into the F-35. So they are comparable to a large extent. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Endrelunde (talk • contribs) 10:27, 15 March 2007 (UTC).

I aggree, but the F-22's thrust vectoring and supercriuse, not to mention the AESA radar put these aircraft in different classes - multi-role bomber fighter vs fighter with ground tacked on as an afterthought. If any actual aircraft (that is in production) is truly comparable to the f-22 it is the euro fighter typhoon. So how about putting the F-22 in a related technologies section?

To whoever (since you didn't sign your posts) thought of putting the F-22 and F-35 under "related development: THanks. I should have thought of that my self! I guess I was too colse to the tree to see the forest. Even worse, I do alot of editing in the "Related content" sections of aircraft articles, and that type of move is what I usually do! Ohe well. that's why Wikipedia is co-operative. THanks again. - BillCJ 15:57, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Classified capability

This section is very vague (obviously). However, Minister Nelson's quote and surrounding ones in the transcript only refer to the fighter's general capabilities, not specifically weapon systems as the section in this article implies. Link: '60 Minutes' broadcast "Project Joint Strike Fighter" -Fnlayson 23:02, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I've moved the material to a better place in the article (was in Specs!). I also removed all the nuclear and directed engergy stuff as peure specualtion. It's not even mentioned in the transcript. About the only worth of the whole quote is that it hints to the classified capability as being something really worthwhile.

As an aside, the transcript was really choppy, and the Air Marshall's response often appeared contradictory. Would love to hear the whole interview from before it was edited for broadcast. Seems like a lot of context was taken out to prove the broadcaster;s points. - BillCJ 23:38, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

• Thanks. I tried to quickly read through that transcript but couldn't follow it. So I jumped to the quote and read the area. ;) -Fnlayson 00:54, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

No prob. It might have been easier to follow on the visual broadcast, I don't know. I had trouble reading it too! - BillCJ 00:59, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I still don't see what this section adds. Every bit of modern military hardware has classified components (for instance, the armour on tanks, the maximum safe diving depth of submarines and the stealth capabilities of modern fighters) so this doesn't indicate anything special about the F-35. Does anyone other than the Australian minister for Defence regard the F-35's classified components as being unusually important? --Nick Dowling 10:01, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't either, but they found a cite like we asked then too, and they're pretty insistant on its importance. If we want to try to get a consensus to remove it tho, I'll definitely support taking it out for the reasons you gave. - BillCJ 15:32, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I thought it was rather amusing that Brendan Nelson aluded to a mystical 5% that makes the F-35 the best plane in the world. Well, atleast thats how he made it look anyway. How about putting in a mystical 5% section. BTW, is there a 5% that makes any other aircraft 'perfect'?

I have moved the material to where it really belongs, which is in the Australian section — This is much more appropriate given its context. Unless and until someone can enlighten us as to "5%" of what (weight, systems, cost, etc.), I have to believe the number was pulled out of thin air. It's clear that what Dr. Brendan was trying to communicate was that there was some quite useful and important capability that even the Super Hornet doesn't have that makes the F-35 especially desirable for the ADF. Askari Mark (Talk) 14:04, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, he was trying to communicate that, or he was just lying to cover himself, and since no one can prove it, you can not just assume he's telling the truth. He is a politician after all... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.187.19.165 (talk • contribs).

[edit] Link to Video of 60 Minutes Story

Below is a link to the actual story on the F-35, as it was aired on australian Television program 60 Minutes. It is somewhat more coherent than the actual transcript if you can actually see what the hell they are talking about. Note there is a 30 second ad, you have to wait for the video to play after that.

http://ninemsn.video.msn.com/v/en-au/v.htm?f=39&g=412b7c99-c044-4ad1-86f5-580dc83143ec&p=aunews_au60minutes&t=m163&mediaid=77361 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.187.19.165 (talk • contribs).

thanks, as an expat Aussie it's interesting to see stuff like that. Personally I think we are wasting our money on F-35 or F-22 and should stick with the FA-18E/F. They have the same systems and arnaments. We aren't going to be attacking anyone, surely? Brettr 16:44, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Specifications

The Specifications listed seem to cover both A and B versions. The C version should be heavier for carrier landings. If this is correct, shouldn't A and B be listed in there? Thanks. -Fnlayson 01:04, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Users

well, i noticed the royal navy wasn't on the list of users, though according to its website they will be ordering 150 of the STOVL (probably, the regular veriason may still be sued) JSFs. i'm not sure how this compares to the USMC but i personally think that the RN should be on that list.

Actually, I believe the 150 number is for both the RAF and the RN, with the split something like RAF (90) and RN (60). The USMC is supposed to receive several hundred (exact figure in article). As to why the RN is not on that list at the top of the article, it is because that list is limited to 4 users total, and the RN would make 5. THis is because the infobox is intended as only a summary, as the other operators are listed in the text. THere are vasious ways to decide which 4 users to list in the Infobox; this one was decided by numbers to be purchased. Hope that helps. - BillCJ 18:49, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Although the number remains officially "up to 150", recent reports have reported that current plans may call for only 136 or 138. Aviation Week & Space Technology carried a report back last November, I believe, that around 80 would be grouped into four squadrons to support carrier ops, with the remaining aircraft would be formed into two squadrons to replace some Tornado GR.4s. I suppose this would mean that the RN would be the "senior buyer", but if the F-35s are to be operated like the Joint Force Harrier, the split could be unclear. Perhaps instead of "RN" or "RAF", it would be best just to say "UK". Askari Mark (Talk) 01:24, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

• Somebody would want to change that, I'm sure. Maybe list them both on a line like RAF/RN. That might not be much better as far as inviting edits to 'fix it'.. -Fnlayson 01:52, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Fine by me. Askari Mark (Talk) 03:16, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Fine with me too. They've been trying to "fix" it for weeks anyway, I don't think this change'll make much difference. - BillCJ 03:21, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

• Made that change. I put RAF first using alphabetical order. -Fnlayson 03:33, 28 March 2007 (UTC)