User talk:Rschen7754/Archive 4

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Contents 1 NY route stub 2 NY Routes project 3 County Routes 4 Routeboxes 5 Left Behind 6 Request 7 Thanks 8 Thanks March 18, 2006 9 Montana Roads 10 For changing U.S. Highway 101 links 11 New Wikiproject 12 Routeboxca2 13 About helping on the MA Wikiproject 14 Re: Question 15 A request regarding U.S. Routes 16 CAFESAlt and CAScenicAlt

NY route stub

Added {{NewYork-State-Highway-stub}} to Wikipedia:Stub_types_for_deletion#February_14th for renaming --Censorwolf 16:39, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

I think you should be User:CapitalEnforcer instead since this seems to be the most important thing to you here! In this case however {{New-York-State-route-stub}} you are correct, my bad. Some friendly advice (and I do intend this without malice), you should learn to use proper capitalization rules outside of WP however. --Censorwolf 02:14, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Taking this outside of Wikipedia:Stub_types_for_deletion#.7B.7BNewYork-State-Highway-stub.7D.7D for discussion, you state that the WP capitalization guidelines are "not technically correct". Please explain, with references. --Censorwolf 15:00, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, but refering to http://dot.ca.gov is a fallacy of logic: an irrelevant appeal to authority. While CA's DOT is certainly an authority on roads in CA, they are not an authority on capitalization, so it does not matter what format they use. I looked at a few of their pages and their webmaster seems to insist on capitalizing every title, which is incorrect.

Re Talk:List_of_California_State_Routes, the argument positions presented by User:Squib and User:BlankVerse are indeed compelling; your counter arguments for the most part are again appeals to authority, appeals to popularity, appeals to local convention (e.g. it's been that way for a long time, that's the way we've always done it...), and insistence that only people who have contributed to road pages have any say or voting authority. All of these are fallacies of logic.

Only two authorities can be validly applied:

1. A style manual such as the Chicago Manual of Style and
2. The WP guidelines.

On WP, the WP guidelines hold more authority for this case because the guidelines have already been debated and decided on for this media. Just like the CA DOT site has already decided to capitalize all page titles, it wouldn't be a good idea for someone there to start changing the style for some pages; it is better that they all agree with each other. So here, on WP, if the guidelines are to capitalize lists and categories one way, then that is the way it should be done. Unfortunately, not all pages have followed the guidelines, but even if more don't follow them than do, this again would be appeal to popularity and an invalid argument for doing the same.

I asked for an explanation of why you stated the WP guidelines are "not technically correct", but you didn't provide any. --Censorwolf 14:32, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

---

Appeals to authority are valid ONLY when the authority has expertise in the matter being referenced. For example, you would refer to the CA DOT for authority on highway systems in CA, but not on rules of grammar and likewise capitalization style. You would refer to CMOS for capitalization style but not on how highway systems are set up. It's a matter of domain. I have found one of the most educational things I did was to learn the fallacies of logic when I was about 19. WP's pages on them and some of the external refs there are very well done and worth your time. Valid references to authority are useful, invalid references to authority, on subjects outside their domain, are misleading and just plain wrong.

"New York State Route 17" is capitalized because it is a proper noun, NOT because it is "part of a specific system"; just like you should capitalize "The Eiffel Tower" not because it is part of a system of towers but because it the name of an object. If you want to refer to the collection of towers of France, whether they are part of a "system" or not, the correct reference would be "The towers of France" not "The Towers of France" (you would title a song using the latter method, but we are not writing songs).

Hence you have "List of state routes of New York" or "List of New York state routes" or "List of routes of New York State" (first letter always being capitalized for a title). I could go along with "List of New York State routes" since "New York State" could be considered the full place name, just like you could instead say "List of towers of the Republic of France" or "List of towers of the French Republic", but debate on whether to capitalize "state" is splitting hairs more than the rest of this discussion already is!

If you want the road system titles to use improper capitalization and you can get enough people to agree with you, then those who know better will just think "Oh well, I see those road geeks don't know enough about proper capitalization, grammar, spelling, etc. just like we thought". It will make this part of WP look "unprofessional" and/or done by "style-ignorant" editors, and since you are one of the main contributors of this section, it will be a reflection on you.

Since I see you are currently in school, why don't refer this matter to your language instructor and get his/her opinion? If you are really sure the WP style guidelines are incorrect, then you should take your arguments over to the dicussion page(s) there. That will remove any perceived bias in the argument from the "road crew". --Censorwolf 14:17, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

NY Routes project

Why I removed the US roads news: I just didn't think the US roads project news belongs on the NY project page. It is already on the US project page, no? Since the link as parent to WP:USRD is already on WP:NYSR, what purpose does it serve to repeat the box here? --Censorwolf 02:05, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Fair enuf, if it everywhere else. Don't want NY to be left out. --Censorwolf 14:10, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing the {{Template:routeboxny}}. I didn't have time to figure it out yesterday. --Censorwolf 16:12, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

I removed from the Template:Project_U.S._Roads the comment about "*We have 2 stubs and 2 state hwy cats for this WP. We only need one." since it appears that is no longer the case. We still have everything else being named "New York State Route xxxx", but the stub and category are "Highway". We can revisit this issue once we have almost all the articles renamed and after the other more serious problems have been addressed. --Censorwolf 13:07, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

I started building a table in "Category:New York State articles needing work" to show status of each route page. All NY route pages now comply to the current standard name "New York State Route N" --Censorwolf 19:56, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

County Routes

While I agree with you on the state routes staying where they are, I've been doing more research and thinking on the county routes and using the County Route XX (State) works better. I was always uncomfortable with cross county routes that were in more then one county being identified as one county's version with the others redirecting. It just makes more sense to make them independent of the counties they cross for the ones that are cross county. That and after further examination I can find no evidence that they're actually called anything but County Route XX. And I figured putting CA at the end was a good narrowing tool. However I could also deal with them at County Route XX. Your imput on which is better would be appreciated. I've also updated their routebox adding junctions.

However this has no bearing on my view of the state routes. I still firmly believe you and I are right and they belong at California State Route XX. Gateman1997 07:49, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Sure thing. I was going to start with the routeboxes anyway and hopefully work w/ Joydawg to get svg shields up.Gateman1997 03:00, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Routeboxes

Sorry to bring up more trivial matters, but I see the Template:routeboxca2 and Template:routeboxny and possibly others are no longer including the junction legend. I resisted the ny change but do not want to get into an edit war with Chris. Is this a direction you agree with? I would like to see a standardize route box used across all the state projects, but that would be a long discussion and must wait until after the current hot topic has been solved obviously. --Censorwolf 20:56, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Left Behind

I couldn't help but notice you've been editing Left Behind pages. Were you a fan of the series?JohnnyBGood 01:07, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't know man you smell kinda like a sock to me... oh wait, that's someone else. But on a serious note it most definitely is. Those books really are a great melding of style in my opinion, between spirituality and modernitity. Hard to find in most modern mainstream literature.JohnnyBGood 01:52, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Request

Hi Rschen,

Would you be able to check out WP:AIV and block the two IPs that I mentioned? They both continue to vandalize the page Template:Topics related to Kerala. Thanks. --Khoikhoi 09:00, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! --Khoikhoi 09:08, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for reverting my userpage. Looks like I just returned the favour by reverting yours, hehe. :) Buchanan-Hermit™..CONTRIBS..SPEAK! 09:12, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

And yet another thank you... You're on fire today. ;) (Although it's amazing how some people just won't quit...) --Buchanan-Hermit™..CONTRIBS..SPEAK! 09:53, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks March 18, 2006

Thanks for reverting my userpage vandalism so quickly. May the dark side never take power. BabuBhatt 09:25, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Montana Roads

Since no one is doing anything with the roads in Montana, I thought I might tackle them. Although some of the other states have a variety of inconsistency, I'll just stick to outlining the route and indicating the coordinates as well as the distance between towns and intersecting roads. See my efforts on the Alberta highways such as Alberta provincial highway 43. Cheers. Cadillac 05:38, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

For changing U.S. Highway 101 links

to U.S. Route 101, the change also broke the abbreviated links (i.e. [[U.S. Highway 101|US 101]] became [[U.S. Route 101]] in the junction box.) See if you can fix that, thanks. --Geopgeop 11:33, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't think about it, I just hit yes. I'll fix it whenever things settle down by using rollback on my bot. I can do that right? --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 21:11, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

New Wikiproject

I need some help starting a Virginia Highway WikiProject. I have most of it down, but I just need some help with templates and anything else I'd need to make, other than the project page itself. And if you're already not inundated enough with other projects, you're more than welcome to join this one. But I just need some start-up advice. Thanks buddy. --MPD01605 04:43, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Routeboxca2

Please look at California State Route 186. Can you please fix the width for previous/next without squishing the rest? --Geopgeop 07:25, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

About helping on the MA Wikiproject

Please do not add a template to all talk pages. I like being able to see if there's discussion on the talk page by the color of the link. --SPUI (talk - don't use sorted stub templates!) 03:16, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Re: Question

Not sure, I just filled out the form (so far I've done so... four or so times and gotten responses back... twice?) and luckily this time around, someone got back to me. I haven't received answers on specs for Illinois Route X shields or something else that I don't remember at this time, though, so they're not perfect. For something as big as CalTrans, I might even recommend searching the roadgeek Yahoo! group, which I just joined. —Rob (talk) 08:10, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

A request regarding U.S. Routes

Rschen, I appreciate all the hard work that you and your bot have put into the various Road System articles, but I do have a request that would probably require a little tweaking of the programming. If it's being used to "standardize" the format of the linkage with a US Highway (say, US Route 1 in a Florida State Roads article), will you kindly ensure that the resulting text is consistent in style with the rest of the article? In the case of US Route 1, all it would need is [[U.S. Route 1|US 1]] so it wouldn't "stick out like a sore thumb" alongside the State Road listings. Much appreciated if you can do it. B.Wind 20:00, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

CAFESAlt and CAScenicAlt

I just found out that the Alt versions of these templates were merged with the orig versions. I am changing them back, but in the process I'm finding out that a lot of the calls weren't right anyway, so I'll be working to straighten them out-- it'll probably take a while, but that's what you'll be seeing. -- Mwanner | Talk 23:39, 7 April 2006 (UTC)