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Contents 1 Comments 1.1 Story true? 1.2 The origin of Sinan 1.3 The origins of Sinan the architect of Suleiman aren't Albanian! 1.4 Test from Wiktionary 1.4.1 The text 1.5 Sinan was of Greek Origins 1.6 Categories

[edit] Comments

[edit] Story true?

I read the following story and would like to know if someone as any information regardng that:

Let me tell you a tale of Sinan. He built many of the largest Turkish mosques in the 16th century. Recently, the keystone of an arch in one of those mosques fell out, leaving modern-day workers scratching their heads as to how to get it back into place. While they were peering at the cavity where the stone had been, a worker noticed a little glass bottle in a crevice. Inside was a note from Sinan whose first few lines can be paraphrased thus: "One day, this keystone will probably fall out. You will have your ways of putting it back, I doubt not, but just in case, here's how I did it."

The workers followed his instructions, and the keystone is back in place today.

Reply to David Latapie 15:57, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The origin of Sinan

Albania: Eye of the Balkan Vortex by Lou Giaffo:

Architect Sinan is not the only Albanian who worked in Turkey.

213.100.205.149 15:48, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

I assume this is sv:Användare:L'Houngan on Swedish Wikipedia. He has recently been involved in several edit wars on sv, including [1] [2] and [3] and has been blocked at at least one occasion. /The Phoenix 18:02, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

He is assumed to have Albanian origin,not Greek neither Armenian.

No he wasn't; Both Ottoman and non Ottoman papers have him being Christian of Greek or Armenian origins. Your confusion him with Sinan Pasha, who was of Albanian origins.

[edit] The origins of Sinan the architect of Suleiman aren't Albanian!

Speaking about Sinan the architect we must be very carefull. In fact, in the history of architecture of the Ottoman Empire we found two architect named Sinan. The first, Atik Sinan, or Sinan the Ancient, lived in the period of Mehmet the Second, and probably was from Albanian origins; but the second Sinan, well known worldwide as Mimar Koca Sinan, The Great Architect Sinan, lived many years after the first, between 1490 and 1588, and become very famous in the period of Sultan Suleiman the Magnificent, who reigned from 1520 till 1566. About the 'second' Sinan we can discuss his origins, but probably he was from a Greek-ortodox family, and not from Albanian origins. Reply to orlandi.luca@gmail.com In 1934 Ataturk ordered his grave to be dug and skull to be measured and... voila he had a brakisephal skull which means he is Turkic .Even this is weird in Anatolia because of the mongolic invasions (especially in Kayseri today most of the population has monoglic properties) the turkic genes has been corrupt at those times. of course later mostly Armenian genes added to this pool in Kayseri(The Minister of Forign Affairs of Turkey(2006) is a good example of Armenian genes)

[edit] Test from Wiktionary

The following text was moved from Wiktionary. Portions of it might be useful to this article. The edit history was as follows:

<nowiki>
19. jan 2006 kl.21:13 Dangherous ({{Move to Wikipedia}})
18. jan 2006 kl.21:09 85.102.101.109
18. jan 2006 kl.21:09 85.102.101.109

</nowiki>

[edit] The text

He is an architect who grew up in one of the most splendid periods of the Ottoman State, and who contributed to this era with his works. Various sources state that Sinan was the architect of around 360 structures which included 84 mosques, 51 small mosques ("mescit"), 57 schools of theology ("medrese") 7 schools for Koran reciters ("darülkurra"), 22 mausoleums ("türbe"), 17 Alm Houses ("imaret"), 3 hospitals ("darüşşifa"), 7 aquaducts and arches, 48 inns ("Caravansary"), 35 palaces and mansions, 8 vaults and 46 baths. Sinan, who held the position of chief architect of the palace, which meant being the top manager of construction works of the Ottoman Empire, for nearly 50 years, worked with a large team of assistants consisting of architects and master builders.

The development and maturing stages of Sinan can be marked with three major works. The first two of these are in İstanbul - Şehzade Mosque which he calls his apprenticeship period work, Süleymaniye Mosque which is the work of his qualification stage, and Selimiye Mosque in Edirne the product of his master stage. Şehzade Mosque is the first of the grand mosques Sinan has created. Mihriman Sultan Mosque which is also known as the Üsküdar Quay Mosque was completed in the same year and has an original design with its main dome supported by three half domes. When Sinan reached the age of 70, he had completed the Süleymaniye Mosque and the Complex. This building, situated on one of the hills of Istanbul facing the Golden horn, and built in the name of Süleyman the Magnificent, is one of the symbolic monuments of the period. The diameter of the dome which exceeds 31 meters at Selimiye Mosque which Sinan completed when he was 80, is the most significant example of the level of achievement Sinan reached in architecture. Mimar Sinan has reached his artistic summit with the design, architecture, tile decorations, land stone workmanship displayed at Selimiye.

Another area of architecture where Sinan delivered unique projects are the mausoleums. Mausoleum of Şehzade Mehmed gets attention with its exterior decorations and sliced dome. Rüstem Paşa mausoleum is a very attractive structure in classical style. The mausoleum of Süleyman the Magnificent which is one of his interesting experimentations has an octagonal body and flat dome. Selim II Mausoleum with has a square plan and is one of the best examples of Turkish mausoleum architecture. Sinan's own mausoleum which is located at the north - east part of the Süleymaniye complex on the other hand, is a very plain structure.

Sinan, in the bridges he built, has masterfully combined art with functionalism. The largest of his work in this group is the nearly 635 m. long Büyükçekmece Bridge. Other significant examples are Ailivri Bridge, Lüleburgaz (Sokollu Mehmet Pasha) Bridge on Lüleburgaz River, Sinanlı Bridge over Ergene River and Drina Bridge which has became the title of the famous novel of Yugoslav author İvo Andriç.

While Sinan was maintaining and improving the water supply system of İstanbul, he has built arched aqueducts at several locations within the city. Mağlova Arch over Alibey River, which is 257 meter long, 35 meters high and displaying two layers of arches is one of the best samples of its kind.

http://www.discoverturkey.com/english/kultursanat/tb-mimar.html

[edit] Sinan was of Greek Origins

The son of Greek Orthodox Christian parents, Sinan entered his father's trade as a stone mason....

The above statement is from Encyclopædia Britannica and confirms that Sinan was indeed of Greek and not Armenian origins as Armenians are Armenian Orthodox and not Greek Orthodox, therefore I will edit the article accordingly.

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9067893?hook=33990

Well, not quite right, his town was mostly inhabitated by Armenians during his time, besides, the most relevant historical record is the letter Sinan wrote requesting his family to be spared when in 1573 the Sultan ordered the exile of the Armenians of Kesaria. The letter has been published in the June 5, 1930 edition of Turk Tarikhi Enjumeyi Mejmousas, there are also the series of petitions which Sinan signed. His Greek origin was mostly claimed during the period in Turkey when the word Armenian was a taboo. Fad (ix) 04:52, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Not to mention that one can be Armenian and Greek Orthodox.--Eupator 19:49, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Was there a period that the word 'Armenian' was a taboo, but the word 'Greek' was not...? btw, Britannica is up to date. it uses the term 'Greek Orthodox' for the Greeks and the terms 'Eastern Orthodox', 'Orthodox Christians' or just 'Orthodox' for the orthodox people collectively. --Hectorian 02:11, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

I added another work by Sinan[4], but i am not sure if i can list it as 'Cursum' or 'Koursoum'. i have chosen the second for the moment, cause this is how in greek is called (according to the (International Phonetic Alphabet). --Hectorian 02:33, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi Hectorian, your Mosque of Sinan at your Picture and the only Mosque exists in Trikala of Sinan (there was two) named: Osman Shah Mosque. I never heared "Koursoum" as a work of Sinan. Please correct. Thanks, lynxxx (Germany)

[edit] Categories

There are some problems with two of the categories in this article:

• Category:Turkish architects: Yes, he lived in what is now Turkey, but we know for sure he wasn't a Turk. He was either Greek or Armenian, hence making this category problematic.

• Category:Greek Turkish people: It is impossible to tell if he was Greek, as only religious information were recorded in Ottoman censuses. We have evidence to support this, but we cannot say for sure.

Thoughts? Khoikhoi 01:11, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Not exactly, even if he was born a Christian in a Greek-speaking village, he spent most of his life and all his career as a Turk and a Muslim. Turkified? Yes. But still a Turk. Nobody forced him to build all those mosques. Nearly all the sources out there will refer to him as a Turkish architect. Orthodox of that era would be considered as Greek today, and Muslims, as Turks. If that's the case, then we can say the same thing for nearly all the people who lived in the middle ages. I think that we should reinstate the categories. The test is, if he were alive today, as he is, would he be considered Turkish or not? And the answer is yes. If the sources point to his Greek origins, then the other cat can stay as well. Baristarim 00:23, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

"Turkified Greek" does not mean "still a Turk"... It means both "still a Greek" and "still a Turk". Being born in a Greek Orthodox family of a Greek-speaking village, means that he was born a Greek! (what else would be required to say if someone belongs/ed to an ethnic group?). Orthodox of that era would not be considered Greeks today (compare the Bulgarians and Serbs who were and are Orthodox, but were and are not considered Greeks). The peoples living in the middle ages did not all have the same perception of nationality and ethnicity that we have today... some of them gave credit to their religion (most of), others to their blood, while others to their language... And if Sinan was alive today, i bet that he would considered himself simply 'Muslim', since his religion, not a supposed "Turkishness" "forced" him to built all these mosques... Btw, the Selimiye Mosque is rather impressive:). PS: since this time both categories are removed (and not just one, as it happened before), i have no objections. Hectorian 02:45, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Why are we not inclusive rather than exclusive? These were the days when ethnic nationalism was not yet developed. The people at the time did not have the self-identification of Greek, Turkish or Armenian in the same sense that we would have today. Why try to apply today's narrower classifications (and singly) to a time when these classifications did not yet exist as we know them today?

Sinan was not of Turkish origins, however, he practiced his art within the Ottoman Turkish sphere and his architectural legacy continued in the Turkish world. I think that makes him a Turkish architect. By nature he was Greek or Armenian. By nurture he was Ottoman Turk. We can reflect all of this by listing him under multiple categories.

I read "Tezkiretü-l Bünyan" (Sinan's "autobiography") recently. He talks of his origins very briefly, gives two sentences to state that he is devshirme from Kayseri under Selim I's reign, and gives his name as Sinan, son of Abdulmennan (one of the place holder names such as Abdullah or Abdurrahman, used as father's name by devshirmes), the rest of the text being dedicated to his works, how and why he built them. I doubt very much that he would understand this discussion.

I support that he be listed under 3 categories: Turkish architects, Greek people, Armenian people. Otherwise, just the People of the OE is sufficient. --Free smyrnan 06:41, 7 January 2007 (UTC)