Talk:Star Trek: Generations

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In addition, the time-loop demonstrated here appears to have been self-contained, in a similar fashion to the TNG episode "Cause and Effect" which did not per se create an alternate universe.

I disagree with this. I thought self-contained time travel was such that it didn't change future events; see causal loop. What happened in the movie is analogous to the grandfather paradox; Picard travels back in time to eliminate the event which caused him to travel back in time in the first place. I'm going to remove the above sentence if noone objects. - Evil saltine 11:25, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 Errors and Inconsistencies in the Film 2 Notes about Generations 3 Getting into the Nexus 4 Tuvok 5 Errors in the main article 6 Kirk's dying words 7 Current version of Plot Summary 8 Trivia trimmed

[edit] Errors and Inconsistencies in the Film

Data refers to a joke that Geordi apparently told during the Farpoint Mission (the pilot episode), about a Ferengi in a gorilla suit. However, First Contact with the Ferengi did not happen until several episodes later.

I don't see this as an inconsistency at all. Physical first contact may not have happened until several episodes later (The Last Outpost, to be precise) but the race was mentioned in dialogue in Encounter at Farpoint, and the Ferengi had been encountered before this as evidenced in the episode The Battle by the loss of the Stargazer (Picard's previous command) in combat against them.

--Yotsuyasan, 11:19 E.S.T., 28 Sept 2005

I was unaware of the Farpoint quote, so I agree with the removal with this error (and I removed the same text I added to Memory Alpha's article article at Memory Alpha, a Star Trek wiki.). However, it was not known that the ship that attacked the Stargazer was Ferengi until sometime after official first contact. Indeed, actual first contact happened with Archer's Enterprise. --Zeromaru^TC 16:32, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

A few comments about errors and inconsistencies. Firstly, the article refers to the possible necessity of warp capability on the probe fired from the planet's surface. Earlier in the film, Worf states that a "solar probe fired from the Klingon ship or the planet's surface would take approximately 11 seconds to reach the star". This would seem to indicate that there was definitely some form of warp capability, as, assuming the star was 1 AU from the planet, the probe would have to travel at approximately 45x the speed of light to get there in 11 seconds - and that does not take into account the obvious few seconds that it was under rocket propulsion. This, of course, does not change the fact that Picard should not see the explosion for about 8 minutes, and if 8 minutes are assumed to have passed, Picard seems to have spent those 8 minutes standing on the same spot on the walkway. Then, according to the TNG Technical Manual (published in 1991 and written by Rick Sternbach and Michael Okuda), the Enterprise had an emergency warp core ejection system - similar to that seen used in a Voyager episode - I can't remember which one. No mention of this is made in the film, and its use seems to have not been considered. Finally, once the saucer section has separated, Troi states "full impulse". Since full impulse is theoretically capable of speeds in excess of 75% of the speed of light, the saucer section - even if its own impulse capability was considerably less than 75% - should have been well away from the explosion. --Kmwmtd 23:45, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Wow. Someone's done their homework! *deep respect* --71.219.51.225 04:52, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

It depends how long it takes to reach full impulse speed for such a large mass. It's like putting the accelerator right down, but still takes a while to reach top speed! Marky1981 10:37, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

This is related to the "probe reaching the sun in 11 seconds" issue, but not directly. When the first star is destroyed, they make a big deal out of the various effects the destruction of that star has had, including extra radiation of some sort throughout the sector, and the changes in gravity that are severe enough to require course changes for the USS Boseman (spelling unknown to me, not important) and of course alter the path of the nexus wave.

Unless that first star was some sort of weird "subspace magic hole", those effects could not possibly propogate faster than the speed of light, and wouldn't have any noticeable effect outside the originating system for some time. Even gravity itself cannot move faster than light.

Also related, but explainable is the fact that the nexus wave must travel at warp speed, except for whenever it's on camera. This can be explained by the wave slowing down to relativistic speeds when it enters the gravity well of a star, thereby becoming visible and dramatic. This fits in with canon as I know it, since warp fields are supposed to be limited in strong gravity wells. Prgrmr@wrk 04:25, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notes about Generations

Having learned of the re-edit of the film, I promptly downloaded it. Has anyone seen it? It is aweful! I'm all for experiements in film, and re-mixing them is definetly that. But should the amateurish, clunky re-edit of this film be advertised here on wikipedia? I say no. I say get rid of that entry, and let people spread the crappy re-edit (of which there may be hundreds) amongst themselves. It's reference in this article adds legitimacy where none is deserved.

=max bz

[edit] Getting into the Nexus

==Errors and inconsistencies in the film== *In the Stellar Cartography lab, Picard asks Data why Soran would want to change the path of the Nexus-- "why doesn't he just fly into it with a ship?" Data replies that any ship that's approached the Nexus has been either damaged or severely destroyed. Yet Soran entered the Nexus for the first time onboard the Lokul, and would have remained there had he not been pulled away by a transporter beam. The ultimate fate of the ship wouldn't matter-- Soran could fly into the Nexus with a ship at any time, and therefore there was absolutely no reason for him to attempt the destruction of a planet with millions of people on it.

I'd like to comment on this. If you'll perview the film, you'll see someone (can't remember who) telling the bridge crew that the people on the Lokul are phasing in and out of reality. Now, here's what I think would happen: The passengers are still half-there. The ship would have been destroyed in a moment, and since the passengers are still half-there even though their conciouses are in the Nexus, they would be killed along with the Lokul. What I'm saying is that they got a taste of the Nexus without being actually completely in the nexus. If the Lokul had been destroyed, the passengers would be taken with it regardless. Sorren can't fly a ship into the nexus, therefore, because the ship would explode before he could be completely brought into the nexus. A space suit would rupture after a few seconds if not less, with all of those gravitational fluxes, I think. This theory fits well with what is said in the movie. What do you think?

-Jetman123 06:25, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

XXX

The following passage is a mistakenly presumed error or inconsistency:

--Errors and inconsistencies in the film--

In the Stellar Cartography lab, Picard asks Data why Soran would want to change the path of the Nexus — "why doesn't he just fly into it with a ship?" Data replies that any ship that's approached the Nexus has been either severely damaged or destroyed. Yet Soran entered the Nexus for the first time onboard the Lakul, and would have remained there had he not been pulled away by a transporter beam. The ultimate fate of the ship wouldn't matter — Soran could fly into the Nexus with a ship at any time, and therefore there was absolutely no reason for him to attempt the destruction of a planet with millions of people on it.

For this reason:

Soran and Guinan were already in the Nexus before the Lakul incident took place. The Enterprize (which also became stuck, albeit temporarily) locked on to "lifesigns" and energized, beaming Soran and Guinan out of the Nexus. They were mistakenly presumed to be passengers onboard the Lakul, when in fact they had already been in the Nexus for an indeterminint amount of time.

XXX

[edit] Tuvok

This there canon which establishes that it is Tuvok (the character) on the Enterprise-B, or is it merely Tim Russ (the actor) playing someone on Enterprise-B? The article Tuvok does not mention it, and implies that Tuvok was elsewhere and, of course, Tim Russ has played multiple characters within Star Trek. Brian Sayrs 16:10, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

It is Tim Russ playing a different character, it is not meant to be Tuvok (you can tell by his ears)! As you pointed out, he has played other roles (such as an enemy on Starship Mine). Marky1981 16:16, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

OK, I just removed the following until I view the movie again: "Tuvok (played by Tim Russ), a main character of the subsequent Star Trek: Voyager series, makes an appearance in the film as Enterprise-B's Tactical Lieutenant, delivering a number of lines in scenes on the bridge." Brian Sayrs 17:07, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Errors in the main article

"This film portrays the first time the word 'shit' was used in Star Trek. The line is uttered by Data just as the Saucer Section hits the planet surface."

Neither of these statements is true. In Star Trek IV, Gillian Taylor wants to know if Kirk and Spock are with the military and if perhaps they want to teach aquatic mammals to "retrieve torpedoes or some dipshit stuff like that?" and Kirk replies, "No, ma'am, no dipshit."

When Data says, "Oh, shit" the saucer section is still in orbit. He utters the imprecation upon seeing that they're not going to be able to maintain the orbit and the ship (OK, the saucer section) is going down.

[edit] Kirk's dying words

I read somewhere that, given the circumstances in which Kirk found himself near death, William Shatner wanted Kirk's last line to be "Bridge on the captain," but he was overruled. I have no citation. It does sound like something Shatner would say, though.

Don't you mean "Captain on the Bridge"? What I always found interesting was how Kirk died with Picard at his side... am I the only one who remembers him saying how he's always "known" he would die alone?

It was still a really stupid death. He should have gone down giving orders on the bridge of a starship, not falling off a bridge like a dirtsider. Kasreyn 01:08, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I certainly do not mean "Captain on the bridge." I meant what I said: "Bridge on the captain." Think about it for a minute.

As for the "dying alone" thing, I hope you're not thinking that's an inconsistency or something. Kirk did say, "I've always known I'll die alone," but unless he was prescient, that doesn't mean bubkes.

Oh, right... bridge on the captain. Sorry, I remembered that he fell, but not that the bridge fell on him. And as to dying alone, I actually intended that I thought it was a good thing that his premonition didn't come true. Kasreyn 03:15, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Kirk did die alone in the sense he was not with any of his original series friends or in his time. Marky1981 11:08, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Current version of Plot Summary

Is it really necessary to go into that much detail regarding the plot? Willbyr (talk | contribs) 04:01, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

The edits that have been made to the section are good, but there's still a lot more work that needs to be done. Honestly, the summary that was up prior to the super-long one was sufficient for the article. Willbyr (talk | contribs) 19:08, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes I agree...this should be a plot summary (2 paragraphs max) not a line-by-line description of the movie.Blipadouzi 09:43, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia trimmed

I got rid of a lot of redundant trivia (did we really need three Kirk-related spats?) and compressed some others.

Looks and feels much better now. TFX 04:03, 22 November 2006 (UTC)