Talk:Yukio Mishima

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1 Question as to the cause of jeering and mockery
2 Kimitaké
3 Explanation request
4 Nobel nomination
5 Everything's in German!
6 Mishima and militarism
7 Manner of death
8 The Photo
9 Links
10 His name
11 Hist political views: rightist?
12 Copy of his final speech
13 Aftermath
14 Bisexual?

[edit] Question as to the cause of jeering and mockery

I've heard conflicting accounts of this, and hopefully someone can clear this with a reputable source. We all know that Mishima's final speech went somewhat awry. However, the current article states that, due to the poor reaction from the crowd, he could not be heard and thus ended his affair rather early. By contrast, I've previously read that technical difficulties (either insufficient sound or faulty equipment) prevented him from being properly heard, and thus the crowd voiced their frustration. If a fellow user would provide insight on this matter, it would be greatly appreciated. --AWF

The soldiers were not sympathetic (he was generally looked on as a buffoon because of his publicity stunts) and heckled him; also he was drowned out by the helicopters. There is a partial recording though. Xanthoxyl 15:49, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kimitaké

Wow, a whole article and redirect. Thanks Kimitake for writing under a pen name! Um, I had found this whole long list of works and I tried to just use the most common or well known novels. Did not include information about his wife and children because I didn't think they're really important. I'm sure they were to him, but ...

Wikipedia naming policy is to use the better known of the names as the main entry, even if it's a pseudonym Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names). I moved this entry from Mishima's birth name (Kimitake Hiraoka) to here and put a redirect from the other to here. --Zippy 08:54, 31 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Somehow this was moved away to the inverted name order, by which Mishima is not known in English. Moved back to "most common name". -- Someone else 02:43, 10 Nov 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Explanation request

It is not clear from the aarticle what his cause was that he tried to convince the army of. Can anyone explain? Rmhermen 15:38, Jan 21, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Nobel nomination

During the 1960s, Mishima wrote some of his most successful and critically acclaimed novels, acted in films, and was nominated three times for the Nobel Prize.

This is a little bit misleading - there are no official nominations for Nobel Prizes like for the Academy Awards. Who nominated him for the Nobel Prize? --zeno 14:49, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)

When organisations like PEN nominate a writer for the Nobel Prize for Literature, it is usually announced. In this way we know, for example, that the Esperanto poet William Auld has been nominated at least three times, and Maria Luisa Spaziani several times. I do agree that we should find a citation for this. Crculver 17:47, 26 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Here is one source on the nomination I could find: http://www.vill.yamanakako.yamanashi.jp/bungaku/mishima/nenpu/his65_70.html . Apparently he was nominated in September of 1965. Hope that helps.

[edit] Everything's in German!

I have translated this page (with minor changes) into german. Hope this is ok. fp

[edit] Mishima and militarism

I don't think Mishima wanted a return to militarism. In fact, if I recall correctly, he wrote that the Japanese army's manipulation of the emperor (who was essentially reduced to a figurehead) during World War II was shameful excess. Rather, Mishima only wanted to use the army to restore the emperor to his rightful place and remove the corrupt democratic government. So, unless you can find a citation stating that militarism was his goal, I will remove that portion in a few days. Crculver 17:52, 30 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Well, it seems to me (my opinions come almost exclusively from Henry Scott Stokes' book) that there are two difficulties here. First, it's not clear what is meant by militarism, and that doesn't seem like a very meaningful way to describe a form of government. Second, it's not really very clear what Mishima was trying to accomplish. Judging by the speech he gave that day, he apparently wanted to the Self-Defense Forces to stage a coup, at least in that they would declare themselves independent from the democratic government and separate power center. Complicating this is the fact that, whatever he was up to, Mishima apparently didn't expect to succeed. So you could say that his goal was a high-profile suicide. As for the question of militarism, I'm not sure that anyone in Japanese history would describe themselves as militarists -- almost all of the various soldiers to control the government would have said they were doing it in the interest of the emperor, and a lot of them probably believed it. If the pre-war Japanese system is what we mean by militarism, Mishima had expressed his preference for it pretty clearly. The fact that he saw World War II as "excessive" doesn't mean much. For one thing, that's easy to say in hindsight; for another, Mishima retroactively backed a different faction of militarists, the ones that lost in the Ni Ni Roku incident. If we define militarism more broadly as a government where the military has a lot of influence, then anyone who would stage a military coup clearly fits the bill.

Despite the fact that one can make a solid case that Mishima was a militarist, I propose that we hedge by simply saying that he wanted the SDF to stage a coup. - Nat Kraus e 07:52, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

Done. Crculver 18:58, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

The Henry Scott-Stokes, whoever mentioned him, is totally untrustworthy and it's pretty bad journalism-- and it is journalism. There is a lot in the Scott-Stokes biography which sticks out like a sore thumb to anyone who's read Mishima in Japanese. For example he makes a pretty egregious mistake when he says that Mishima chose the name 'Yukio' so that it would sound like the word snow. Also this is just hearsay from people who were around then and involved in that community but Scott-Stokes seemed to be very keen on spreading the rumor that he had been involved with Mishima himself at one point. None of this can be substantiated but Scott-Stokes is not really taken that seriously. I mean Mishima is not really taken that seriously to begin with, but for English-language biographies the John Nathan is really pretty good.

I don't think a solid case can be made at all that Mishima was a militarist and I think it's valid to remove that portion.

[edit] Manner of death

The decapitation article claims that Mishima was decapitated. Anyone know? --Dante Alighieri | Talk 20:08, May 24, 2004 (UTC)

I believe that he first stabbed himself in the gut, and then one of his associates cut off his head. - Nat Kraus e 06:44, 25 May 2004 (UTC)~

I was the one who added him to the decapitation article. I do know that he was beheaded by his associate (rather clumsily by the sounds of it), and I have (involuntarily) seen pictures of his severed head in a book on him in Japan. Read the seppuku article for more:

The last known people to commit seppuku were famed author Yukio Mishima and one of his followers, who committed public seppuku at the Japan Self-Defence Forces headquarters after an abortive coup attempt in 1970. Mishima committed suicide in the office of General Kanetoshi Mashita. His second, a 25 year-old named Morita, tried three times to ritually behead Mishima but failed; his head was finally severed by Hiroyasu Koga. Morita tried to follow Mishima in committing seppuku; although his own cuts were too shallow to be fatal, he gave the signal and he too was beheaded by Koga.

-- Tlotoxl 09:40, 25 May 2004 (UTC)

I have to imagine that, even with a very sharp blade, it takes a certain degree of upper body strength to sever a human head with a katana. I'm not terribly surprised that it took more than one go at it. In any event, thanks for the confirmation. While I'm at it, anyone want to help add more decapitees to the decapitation article? --Dante Alighieri | Talk 15:36, May 25, 2004 (UTC)

Quick question. Are there special laws in Japan that would protect Koga from a murder charge? --Dante Alighieri | Talk 15:36, May 25, 2004 (UTC)

I don't know, but Koga was convicted of something and sent to prison. They committed several crimes that day. - Nat Kraus e 03:55, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

In Japan, there is a crime named Jisatsu-Houjozai(自殺幇助罪), namely aiding and abetting suicide. Morita and Hiroyasu Koga killed Mishima of Mishima's own will - So the prosecution thought they were mere agents of his suicide. --07:13, 4 August 2005 (UTC)1523

For anyone who is interested, and if your library carries back issues of Life magazine you can see the pictures from Nov the 25th at the army headquarters, including one (in black and white) with Mishima's and Morita's heads set upright on the floor. You need the issue from the second or third week (I forget which but they are usually bound together anyway) of December 1970.MarnetteD | Talk 16:41, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The Photo

Can anyone vouch for the legality of including this photo? Unless someone can say something about its copyright status, I'll take it down one week from time. Curtsurly, you've been warned before about not respecting the copyright of photographs, so please don't add photos to articles without making some sort of statement about them on the Talk page. Crculver 14:41, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

The status is "unknown". I should not have assumed fair use. Curtsurly 19:34, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I was wondering since you guys are talking about photograph(s), I have had this one [1] of him for a while I can not remember were it came from nor can I find any website that uses it on it or any information on it. So if someone could please help me out I would really appreciate it. Alus 1:07, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Links

That link sounded very promising:

Short piece comparing Mishima with Baader-Meinhof and other violent demonstrations against governmental rule

I was intrigued to know what the similarities were besides having an opinion far from the majority and using violence. "Another advocate of futility and practitioner of violence" That was all of the comparing part. "Short piece" is an understatement. Furthermore, I didn't find information about Mishima that isn't in the article. So I removed it. 217.81.76.124 09:45, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] His name

John Nathan's biography suggests that Mishima never changed his official name, being Kimitake Hiraoka up until his death. Mishima was the name used for public activities, but Kimitake Hiraoka was used for everything in his personal life. Therefore, there needs to be an indication that both names were used throughout Mishima's adult life. Crculver 17:03, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Sure, but "pseudonym" isn't the right word. Exploding Boy 17:06, Nov 29, 2004 (UTC)

Well, while he is buried in Tokyo in the Hiraoka family grave and as Kimitake his descendants are known as Mishima. His wife is Mrs. Mishima. I don't think the division is quite so clear between personal and private life; particularly with a writer like Mishima, who in fact self-consciously blurred those distinctions. One problem I am having with a lot of this account of Mishima is that it fails to take a more critical stance that much of the way that Mishima has been mythologized (more by Scott-Stokes, less by Nathan) has been a combination of his own doing and the way people have been kind of blown away by said myths.

"his descendants are known as Mishima" - this is not true. His son is known as Iichiro Hiraoka, Iichiro has never called himself Mishima, nor has his daughter. --1523 10:05, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm confused by the term public name used in the introduction in this article. What is it supposed to mean? --Himasaram 09:29, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hist political views: rightist?

The first sentence describes him as a "rightist political activist". Later in the article, in the afterword, it says "he was neither 'rightist' nor 'leftist'". Was he rightist? If not, the first sentence should be changed. --203.217.46.130 10:11, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

There are various opinions about his political stance - but he died crying "Tenno Heika Banzai", so it is quite natural to view him as a rightest.--1523 09:56, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

No, I don't think so-- there is nothing 'natural' about Mishima to be totally frank. I don't want to essentialize him but his views fit neither the views of the rightists or the leftists; both sides absolutely loathed him by the time of his death. If you want to talk about his politics you are going to have to talk about the fact that he was a huge aesthete, not this rightist/leftist junk. Mike

Seicho-No-Ie, which greatly influenced Mishima, Furu-Koga and Chibi-Koga, is very rightist, anyway. --1523 14:34, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

There is nothing wrong in being rightist. If Mishima is rightist then lets indicate it. Not all writers are left wing.

[edit] Copy of his final speech

Is there a webpage that has one?

It's in Scott-Stokes's biography, I believe. CRCulver 06:58, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Aftermath

In Japanese and Anglo-American academies today, Mishima is virtually unspoken of, although he is undergoing something of reappraisal amongst critics interested in the critique of Japanese capitalism.

What is the source for this somewhat ambiguous statement? What are these "academies" and what does it mean that Mishima is "virtually unspoken of"? I fail to see how one could have a discussion of post-war Japanese literature and not speak of Mishima (and I say this as someone who is not particularly a fan of his). CES 01:16, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Not that Google searches are the best measure of popularity, but other than Murakami Haruki, no one of the dozen or so leading/popular Japanese authors I did a Google search on had any where near that number of hits Mishima did (~800,000). If this article is going to portray him as some fringe or "cult" figure in Japanese literature, we need some credible citations or else I will remove it as POV. CES 16:18, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

The quotes that the academy has forgotten about Mishima are, I believe, from the second edition of Scott-Stokes' biography and from Starr's book Deadly Dialectics. I regrettably don't have access to the Japanese-literature portion of my university library this week, but someone should be able to find these two books and do a proper reference tag. Also, no one disputes that Mishima is popular among laymen in a sense, for his books sell well (although apparently not well enough to justify translations of more material than is already available in English). The Google search reflects that. However, there is very little publishing on Mishima in the academy. CRCulver 18:12, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the citations ... still, the wording needs to reflect that he still remains popular outside of academia. The current wording makes him sound like he's just a cult figure for gay men. CES 20:19, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I also removed the reference to that music group, unless someone can argue relevance. CES 20:23, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bisexual?

Did Mishima really visit gay bars or are those just rumors? Obviously if that is the case he would then be bisexual since he married and had affairs with women. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.3.106.29 (talk) 14:10, 15 January 2007 (UTC).

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