Talk:Forms of address in the United Kingdom
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[edit] Nobility of Scottish Feudal Barons
The Scottish feudal barons are here categorised under 'gentry', although it should be pointed out that they are members of the nobility as well as the gentry (notwithstanding Burke: ref the Lord Lyon's office).
[edit] Previously unsectioned comments
Forms of Address in Australia
| Position | Written Address | Salutation | Oral Address |
|---|---|---|---|
| Everybody | Bruce (or Cheryl) Smith | G'day | Hey mate |
Aren't MPs orally referred as 'The Honourable John Smith' or is that only as 'The Honourable member fo Smithville North'? DJ Clayworth 22:31, 3 Nov 2003 (UTC)
The Hon John Smith would suggest that he is the son of a peer. Adam 23:12, 3 Nov 2003 (UTC)
- MPs recieve the title of "Honourable" only during Parliamentary debates. The title is not supposed to be used outside of the Commons. Lord Emsworth 00:38, Nov 14, 2003 (UTC)
Great page! Congrats to Lord Emsworth. 217.159.40.49 15:57, 23 Nov 2003 (UTC) P.S. That John Smith is one busy guy!
[edit] How the Queen addresses people
This link shows forms of address for the various ranks of peerage by the Queen:
- Duke: "Our right trusty and right entirely beloved cousin (and counsellor)"
- Marquis: "Our right trusty and entirely beloved cousin (and counsellor)"
- Earl: "Our right trusty and entirely beloved cousin (and counsellor)"
- Viscount: "Our right trusty and well-beloved cousin (and counsellor)"
- Baron/Lord of Parliament: "Right trusty and well-beloved cousin (and counsellor)"
—Ashley Y 06:26, 2005 Jan 31 (UTC)
Need to amend the table somewhat. Under the terms of the 1917 Letters Patent the eldest son of the Prince of Wales' son is also entitled to HRH style and dignity. All other sons/daughters in the direct male line as grandchildren of the sons of the sovereign are only "Lord/Lady" taking precedence as sons of a Duke Alci12
[edit] how peers address each other
and how does an earl address a duke, another earl, a baron, etc.? and king to king (just using the name of his country, I believe)
[edit] Addressing today
Regarding the question above: Officially a Monarch addresses another Monarch as cousin - even if they are not true cousins. When gathered together Monarchs define precedence by who has reigned longest. The host Monarch generally assumes precedence and would walk in front with the longest serving monarch.
There is a lot of confusion about the aristocracy in general today - to set the record straight: Outside of the Royal family there have since the 1950s been huge changes to British etiquette regarding the peerage - In modern parlance peers tend to address each other by Christian names the same as other people, in England, when referring to each other they just tend to say Lord Smith of the Duke of Bedford etc. When in the House of Lords they may more formally say "My noble friend |colleague"
As it says on the project page here It is now quite acceptable to begin a letter to a Duke or Duchess as "Dear Duchess" not "Dear Duchess of Bedford". For an Earl of Countess, one writes say to the Countess of Rosebery "Dear Lady Rosebery" never "Dear Lady". Envelopes are addressed with the full title, and any honorifics such as Right Honourable. An envelope addressed in Britain to Queen Elizabeth II is addressed just HM The Queen, although to be strictly correct even today missives to the Queen should be sent through her Private secretary or the Lord chamberlain's office, as it was once deemed rude to approach the sovereign uninvited, even by letter. No inference of "Lèse-Majesté" is taken though if the Queen is written to directly. She doesn't open the letters anyway - her personal friends use a code on the envelope - or more probably text her (she has a mobile phone)
Strangers still tend to address in speech a Duke of Duchess as "Your Grace", the rest one addresses today as Lord Smith, Lady Smith whatever their rank. The older forms of speech address such as Milady, M'Lord, Your Ladyship etc. are now only used by employees, and then not always - in many modern/young "noble" households the staff address their employers by their Christian names alone the same as in any modern working environment.
The old rules regarding these matters are still there, but generally they are ignored by unspoken common consent. Most British aristocrats today would be surprised and embarrassed to receive a letter beginning My Lord, and concluding we beg to remain your humble and obedient servant. Unless it was from their bank manager, then theywould be very worried. Even in 1898 the London accountants J H Schroder were concluding letters to Earls merely "We are dear Sir, your's faithfully"
To sum up the aristocracy tend to still be given voluntary deference and respect, but in a far less ostentatious way than in previous centuries, and most certainly do not take offence when people get it wrong. Giano | talk 12:33, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
- Sovereigns address each other as brother/Sister - both usually before and officially since the Congress of Vienna. The only time you don't see this is if there is some other traditional form between particular sovereigns or a snub (eg Nicholas I refusing this form to Napoleon III). Sovereigns further refer to foreign princes as 'cousins' as do many monarchs with their domestic nobles.Alci12 11:23, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] My Lord / Your Lordship
In the Agatha Christie novel Why Didn't They Ask Evans?, the character Freddy has to pose as Lady Frankie Derwent's servant, and realises, once in public, that he does not know whether to address her as "My Lady" or "Your Ladyship" (instead of his usual "Frankie"). She hints that the right answer is "Your Ladyship", but what does the difference means? I'm under the impression that "Your Lordship" and "Your Ladyship" is used mostly by servants and that "My Lord" and "My Lady" by commoners. Is that correct? Eje211 15:26, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
- Not quite- things vary with time and context - but essentially. The former is the most subservient, the latter can be used by social equals or superiors. eg the Duke of Wellington after his duel, departs "Good morning, my Lord Wilchelsea; good morning, my Lord falmouth" [to an earl and viscount respectively]Alci12 11:30, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Proposed merge
See Talk:Styles_in_the_United_Kingdom#Proposed_merge — MrDolomite | Talk 17:46, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
