Talk:Harpsichord

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

WikiProject Echo has identified Harpsichord as a foreign language featured article. You may be able to improve this article with information from the French,  Italian or Macedonian language Wikipedias.

Harpsichord has had a peer review by Wikipedia editors which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.

If anyone can translate French to English, there is an excellent (huge) featured article on the French wikipedia which could usefully be translated to English in its entirety. The Italian one, while featured, is nowhere near as comprehensive as the French.

there are 2 copyright free harpsichord images on the french Wiki 212.234.182.154 15:53, 19 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Contents 1 Harpsichord music 2 No More Modern References!!! 3 Re the name "virginal" 4 Cembalo traverso and Cembalo verticale 5 Nice SVG graphics 6 Not derived from the cymbalum 7 Use in popular music 8 Poor old italians? 9 Cembalo's edits 10 Edits revised 11 Images

[edit] Harpsichord music

You might like to mention that the Harpsichord also gained some popularity in light Jazz music during the 60s, particularly in Britain. For example the theme tunes to the Avengers and Danger Man AKA Secret Agent TV programs from the 60s both feature Harpsichords. Also Lalo Shifrin sometimes featured harpsichords in his jazz recordings during the 60s.

Another influence from the 60's, at least for me, was the TV version of The Addams Family, wherein Lurch, the butler, was often seen to unwind by playing the harpsichord. I started a lifelong interest in this instrument because of this show. While this fact seems much too frivolous to put on the main page of this well done article, it is nice to be able to note it here in case it sparks the memory of other wikiuser of my age.MarnetteD | Talk 16:10, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

How about talk of harpsichord music today? I know I have heard use of harpsichord in songs by Tori Amos and Suzanne Vega -- but this is certainly not in the style most associate with the harpsichord. Perhaps this is of significance, perhaps not. --Jacqui M Schedler 04:59, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

The article is about the instrument, not any particular style of music. Please add a line or two about it if you'd like to. It's always nice to have some connection to modern popular music.

Peter ^Isotalo 07:47, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

My listening skills when it comes to the harpsichord are not their best, but can anyone confirm that a harpsichord is used in the Massive Attack song Teardrop? Bennity 23:25, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] No More Modern References!!!

"In addition, the silver and small screen composer, Danny Elfman, often uses harpsichord in jazz and classic pieces in his composition, such as the soundtrack for Tim Burton's Corpse Bride which uses both genres."

It says classical. Start a new category for soundtracks if you want. Don't put modern references where it says classical!!! Why is it on Wikipedia there must be modern references for everything!!!

Certainly - harpsichord usage in a modern context is almost always by people who are using it simply as a sound effect or as a cheap way to create a centuries-old feel. This is a very musically insignificant area and only deserves a sentence or two of comment. In pop music it is just the harpsichord sound from an electronic keyboard and should be identified as such if it has to be mentioned at all. Perhaps just a little section on the occasional use of the harpsichord 'sound' in the regular musical context of pop music/jazz or whatever style. I certainly feel this topic belongs more in an article about the effects available by the player of an electronic keyboard - after all, using a midi violin sound would hardly constitute creating violin music, would it?

[edit] Re the name "virginal"

This is a short quote from the Discworld book "The Truth" by Terry Pratchett:

'Your friend Mr Tulip would perhaps like part of your payment to be the harpsichord?' said the chair.

'It's not a --ing harpsichord, it's a --ing virginal,' growled Mr Tulip. 'One --ing string to a note instead of two! So called because it was an instrument for --ing young ladies!'

'My word, was it?' said one of the chairs. 'I thought it was just a sort of early piano!'

'Intended to be played by young ladies,' said Mr Pin smoothly. '

While, of course, no authority on the subject, do you feel there might be something to this idea? Daniel Lindsäth 13:47, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Virginals are small harpsichords with their strings parallel to the keyboard. Having one string to a note is not a feature unique to virginals: many harpsichords only have one string to a note. As for whether they were intended to be played by young ladies, the answer is simply, no. They were small and suitable for home use so probably were played by young ladies a lot, but certainly not only by them, and that is not how they got their name.

hahahahahaha this is great! 169.233.52.4 03:40, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

The singular term 'virginal' is incorrect. Like 'trousers', a single instrument of this type should be referred to as a 'virginals', as in a 'pair of virginals', which was the Elizabethan way of referring to both the instrument and its outer case.

[edit] Cembalo traverso and Cembalo verticale

At Wikipedia:Music encyclopedia topics/7, it lists Cembalo traverso and Cembalo verticale, which I figure are probably types of harpsichords, possibly mentioned here but not under those names. (Or they might be other instruments; I'm not familiar with the terms). Can somebody identify them and, if appropriate, use the names here, so they can be linked? Rigadoun 19:54, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

This vertical harpsichord is a Clavicytherium (page on de: and fr: ) You can see such an instrument at [1] Gérard 17:29, 21 May 2006 (UTC) - At Wikipedia:Music encyclopedia topics/9, it lists Clavecin vertical which is the same.

The New Grove tells us that "cembalo traverso" is an Italian term for "spinet." I'll try to put these in soon if no one else does first. Opus33 05:35, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nice SVG graphics

The french version of this article has very nice SVG versions of the diagrams. Would it be an idea to transfer these over to the english article ?

[edit] Not derived from the cymbalum

I'm moved this passage to the talk page:

In most European languages, the word for "harpsichord" is some variation of clavicembalo (Latin clavis "key" + cymbalum, an instrument similar to the psaltery). This word is also occasionally used in English, sometimes in the form clavicymbal or clavisymbal.

If you look at cymbalum, you'll find it says that it is a folk instrument of Eastern Europe. I have never seen it said anywhere that the harpsichord originates from the cymbalum, and I'd be very reluctant to put this in the Wikipedia without citing a reference source.

This edit, by Keenan Pepper, apparently derives from a wish to delete a former stub article on clavicembalo that merely defined what it is and redirected to harpsichord. But my impression is that clavicembalo is virtually never used in English. We don't normally provide a list of foreign synonyms (i.e. we don't include "pomme" in Apple or "uva" in Grape)), so it's not clear we should be discussing it at all.

I would also suggest that any further editing on this point be preceded by consultation of reference sources.

Opus33 17:31, 27 August 2006 (UTC)\

[edit] Use in popular music

I added a brief note on the harpsichord's recent use by session musicuan Larry Knetchel. As Peter Isotalo said above, "It's always nice to have some connection to modern popular music." Since millions of people were introduced to the harpsichord by Knetchel's work, I would appreciate it if my reference to him were not vandalized again. Cranston Lamont 05:07, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Poor old italians?

The article gives the impression that Italian harpsi's went nowhere, either historically or musically after the Renaissance - can this be right? And as for being 'considered pleasing but unspectacular' ... by who, please, and why should we take that opinion seriously? Was Frescobaldi chopped liver?

While it reads nicely to have a grand narrative of the 'development' of the harpsichord moving from Italy to Flanders to France and England, this is obtained at the cost of throwing away at least three-quarters of history, for example what happened in the Netherlands after Ruckers, or in France before the ravalements happened, or in Spain or Germany at any point at all ;-)

... and what's with Baroque harpsichord composers being numerous in "Italy, Germany and, above all, France"? Has anyone counted 'em? --Tdent 16:04, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Hello Tdent, I wrote this long ago and herely list my source. It's Frank Hubbard (cited in article) who says those things about Italian harpsichords; I don't think he meant to imply that Frescobaldi was chopped liver. The "grand narrative" comes straight out of the chapter organization of Hubbard's book, though the original is more nuanced than the summary.

For work on more advanced Italian harpsichords, I have found the papers by Grant O'Brien to be very intriguing: http://www.claviantica.com/.

It's clear that we need more than just the outline history we have now, and I hope there are people with professional level expertise who can take this on. I am just a Hubbard fan/channeler.

Whatever gets changed, however, will involve major organizational problems, keep all those traditions straight. I believe that daughter articles linked from the main article would be the best approach. Cheers, Opus33 17:51, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cembalo's edits

I'm quite concerned with the edits that Cembalo has been putting in this article. I judge that they are very much in violation of the policy posted at Wikipedia:NPOV, and also that since they are not including any reference sources, they violate Wikipedia:Verifiability. Opus33 23:11, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Edits revised

My contributions to the German harpsichord section have now been revised, both to be in compliance with a neutral point of view and to be verifiable. The stipulation regarding the presence of a German harpsichord design in Frank Hubbard's book can be verified easily. It is more difficult to trace the entire output of Hubbard, Dowd, and their followers, but the stipulation that this group of builders made few German-style harpsichords seems hardly in question. I would doubt that anyone would seriously dispute that assertion. The stipulations regarding the increasing use of harpsichords of German Baroque design by leading harpsichordists (Staier, Hill, Parmentier, and others) can be verified by looking at the World's Encyclopedia of Recorded Music, Supplement. I would argue that these performers are "leading" on the basis of the prominent lables for which they record, the extent of their record sales, and their importance in discussions of new directions in harpsichord performance in the major trade magazines (Goldberg, Early Music, etc.).

[edit] Images

Hello, Why replace those images? I thought the ones we already had were clearer. Opus33 16:12, 25 December 2006 (UTC)