Talk:Heartless

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Heartless article. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.
Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~). Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Ask questions, get answers.	Be polite Assume good faith No personal attacks Be welcoming	Article policies No original research Neutral point of view Verifiability

Contents 1 Pureblood Heartless 2 WTH?! 3 question 4 Heartless List? 5 Heartshower disproves? 6 Ansem Reports 7 important 8 Heartless List 9 Rewrite 10 prior to the seires

[edit] Pureblood Heartless

Seriously, it's safe to assume which Heartless are pureblood and which are not. Sure, if they have no knowledge or do not know those Heartless, it's useless information, but if they do, it can be quite useful to know, even though they can make there own presumtions. I'm adding it back. Also, I'm sorry for making those mistakes about "Purebread", we all make mistakes but thats no reason to take the whole damn part off.

~ Ultimate Perfect Chaos 23:09, 8 April 2006 (UTC) ~

[edit] WTH?!

Extend it to cover diffrent kinds of heartless that sora and co. encounter,as well as how they are opposed to nobodies and such-GRAHAMR

i think heartless are intelligent,due to that fact that they form teams with names in the coliseum.(perhaps,however, Ansem/Malifecent/whoever knew that the keyblade bearer was going to show up,so they sent them to sign up for the tournament so that they could kill him) in the second game,they even work with nobodies in the underdrome battles.

- Information on every kind of Heartless encountered in the game is better suited for a Strategy Guide, and would be superfluous here. As well, the only Heartless that display any intelligence are a few Heartless bosses; the rest are essentially mindless, as noted by Yen Sid and Xemnas. If the structure of the Coliseum/Underdrome battles have to be attributed to anyone in-game, I would say they are the work of Hades. - Kalarchis 01:34, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Information on every kind of Heartless encountered in the game is better suited for a Strategy Guide, and would be superfluous here. How so? I don't see why info on different Heartless types, provided that it's written in a formal, encyclopedic tone, would be 'superfluous' here. Jerkov 14:43, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes!! A professional and NPOV-centered list of Heartless is just as relevant to this article as a list of the game's characters would be to the Kingdom Hearts article. This is BS. My edits were removed twice without consideration at all for their encyclopedic value, and I'm prety sure others' contributions were, too. Rather than delete it on the spot, why not improve it? --Wikiwow 19:20, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

A list of Heartless is absolutely irrelevant to the general reader and isn't good prose in the least. Encyclopediae do not contain every single bit of inforrmation, sorry to say. ' ^{(Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!)} 13:51, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

um, no. Many other entries, for example Metroid's bestiary page, or even episode guide like pages, are considered relevant. As long as information is given to explain what the Heartless do, it is extremely relevant. At this point, we basically have that they are bogeymen. At the very least, a few pictures of more than just the first two heartless would serve to show the reader what kind of creatures the Heartless are: somewhat like the Transformers in that they manifest in a form adapted to their world.

If it helps the reader to further understand the different aspects and characteristics of Heartless, then yes, it is relevant. How can you have countless articles on nearly every Final Fantasy enemy and not have one section on the Heartless article about the subject of the article--the Heartless! Completely nonsensical to me. I'm not suggesting a strategy guide with info on their HP and strengths/weaknesses or anything like that, just one to three sentences on the appearance, abilities, physical characteristics, and niches of every species--or at the very least, the Bosses, since most played vital roles in the game. That's not too much to ask for. --Wikiwow 16:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

If you must throw a fit about not having the list, at least include information on the bosses, which DEFINETELY had places in the storyline. For example, It is explicitly said that Darksides are reflection of the darkness in one (Zexion to Riku). That is important info for this entry. The journal entries are always more indepth with the bosses, telling how they relate to the story, and it is easy to see how heartless boss information would relate to this page.

Also, it is still not right that information was deleted FROM THE COMMENTS PAGE. It was up there so that people could add more info to it before deciding to place it on the article page. 74.132.225.145 15:51, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Talk pages are for discussion on improving the article, not an way to shunt information unacceptable to be in the actual article into. Regardless, the presence of other shit articles does not warrant adding a shitty list of only interest to Kingdom Hearts nerds. Black Ballades, Bulky Vendors, and a bunch of other meaningless names and characteristics aren't very interesting or relevant to the general reader, sad to say. Add some prose about how thare can be many types; fine, whatever. No shitty lists. ' ^{(Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!)} 16:47, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

IT WAS DISCUSSION FOR IMPROVING THE ARTICLE. It was just not in a finished form yet. And actually, if somebody was just casually reading the page on the game, Kingdom Hearts, maybe it wouldn't be interesting. I can say from experience that when they go to pages on story errate, such as "Heartless", or the individual character pages, then they want actual information, not just the kind of stuff they have on game previews or reviews. Here's an example of how it could be organized to be presentable and useful: organizing them by worlds, first visit (before they mix). EX: "In Beast's Castle, Heartless such as the possessed Gargoyle Knights and Warriors, along with Lance Soldiers and Hook Bats appear." Maybe throw in a picture, maybe have little sentences for what each one looks like. Gives information on what type of setting the world is, and its atmosphere (in this case, a medieval type of setting, or a gothic-ish (the architecture term, not the fad) type of thing. Seriously, information like this isn't as "fan-crufty" as people seem to think. I always like articles more and find them more useful if they have detailed information on them, especially if I've never heard of the thing before.

I agree with wikiwow about the articles on individual heartless. maybe just the shadows or the bosses --wizard5311

[edit] question

I'm not sure if this is right or not. I've seen heartless do what appears to be shapeshifting (one pretended to be Belle to annoy Beast, and a group of soldiers turned into heartless before Shang's eyes) but this has never been proven should someone look into it. that way we could decid if we could add shapeshifters to the list of appropriate groups for heartless to be in.

The soldiers had just turned into Heartless, they weren't already. This is shown by the comment that they are dying (I think it was something like that). Certainly they were shown to be dying, though.74.132.225.145 03:59, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Heartless List?

I understand why this might not be appropriate on the mainpage (at least, until information was added to each entry (ex. the journal entries), but why was it deleted from the comments page? I thought that comments were not supposed to be deleted.

No, I don't understand. I was the one who began putting up the lists of Heartless (I think...maybe someone did it before me and it got deleted) on the main article. But why was it removed? Isn't it relevant to the article? I'm not trying to sound angry with my words, I just wanna know why my contributions were deleted so quickly (less than a day, I think). --Wikiwow 19:15, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Why do people keep on deleting my Heartless List? --User:Oblivion111

It's already been discussed many times, people simply do not want one on here, so....that's why they get rid of it, simple as that. Captain Drake Van Hellsing 07:52, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Heartshower disproves?

The shadows still appeared from puddles of darkness, though I do admit that emblems only seem to appear when a heart is seperated from the body (Traverse Town Soldier, LoD Nightwalkers), with no need to be produced by the machine (which, admittedly, is never said to actually be the source of Heartless, merely a factor in producing them: it could be some kind of signal or something that causes lost hearts to reform as Heartless). And Yen Sid clearly says that the Heartless exist as long as darkness exists in any heart: not that the hearts must be seperate.

The heartshower sequence doesn't disprove anything. Because the hearts disappeared for a moment before the shadows arived (unlike the traverse town soldier who appeared as a floating...darkness ball i suppose) it's open for interpretation whether the hearts became heartless or the heartless consumed the hearts. Additionally shadows are pureblood heartless and therefore have nothing to do with the machine. Emblems are more common and have been shown to appear from hearts that go missing. We can therefore conclude that emblems appear from the machine or from the heart of someone who has lost their heart to a heartless. Purebloods are more of a mystery as they were originally created though the collapse of hearts, this might mean that they are the darkness of a heart that is released when a heart is completely destroyed. It's all speculation but the heartshower doesn't really give much in the way of support to any idea. 69.117.57.73 20:48, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ansem Reports

This is all well and good to have an article on, but at this point, this article is about the reports, which were there to explain the plot, not the Heartless. Excluding the first paragraph. It even has a paragraph bout the Nobodies! I suggest this article be renamed to "The Ansem Reports", and include information on "The Other Ansem Reports" as well, or it be totally reformatted. As it is now, it's pretty much a failure of an article.

So far we have 1 1/2 paragraphs about Heartless, 7 about the Ansem Reports, and 1 about the Nobodies. This needs to change.74.140.118.84 01:34, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] important

can i add something?Christopherbenoit 22:57, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

go ahead User:Oblivion111

[edit] Heartless List

I would like to add a Heartless list on another page, but have not finished the first game a do not have pics, so it will have to be expanded. Any objections?Therequiembellishere 07:21, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Go ahead. Kamin 978

NO! STOP! CEASE AND DESIST! DO NOT DO THAT! Wikipedia is not an indescriminate collection of information. Axem Titanium 20:11, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

And yet, they still get away with the FF Beastery(sp?), tell me something though, are those lists being considered for deletion at all? Cause if not, then a Heartless List would seem just as appropiate to me as the FF Beastery list. Captain Drake Van Hellsing 20:46, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

First of all, Kingdom Hearts only spans three titles (currently) so it has not had time to establish too many consistently recurring enemies yet. Second, WikiProject Final Fantasy is in the middle of a large campaign to remove as much unencyclopedic fancruft from Final Fantasy articles as possible and present the information in a professional way (more details here). Part of this campaign is the consolidation of the FF Bestiary pages into a more condensed form, focusing only on the most notable and consistently recurring monsters. So, to answer your question, yes, they will be considered for deletion as soon as the important information is culled from them and placed into the less listcrufty article. And I think they were considered for transwiki before too. Axem Titanium 22:00, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rewrite

Heartless needs a complete rewrite. There are only a few sections on the topic of the article, the rest are about the Ansem Reports. There's even a section on the Nobodies! We need to delete all the sections that have no relevance to the subject of the article and replace them with sections that provide actual information about the Heartless. There is no information on the fact that the Heartless are opposed to the Nobodies. There is no information on Pureblood Heartless.

Kamin 978

Article seems fine to me, and there's excellent information on the Pureblood. Where is this information, you ask?

Simple. If an Emblem Heartless has that emblem, it's reasonable to assume that Pureblood don't. Using this logic, just playing the game can tell you everything in the Pureblood section. Emblem outnumber Pureblood something like ten to one. Just watching someone fight any Emblem Heartless- and the fact it's heart comes out- versus the little Shadows- who just dissipate to black mist- all of it is reasonable.

This article is almost professional in its doing and I'm getting rid of the rewrite. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 147.133.205.171 (talk) 16:39, 17 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] prior to the seires

The this needs a rewrite because its false. The heartless came from the realm of darkness

Only if you fell asleep throughout the games.

"The experiments caused the test subject's heart to collapse, including those of the most stalwart. How fragile our hearts are! My treatment produced no signs of recovery. I confined those who had completely lost their hearts beneath the castle.

Some time later, I went below and was greeted by the strangest sight. Creatures that seemed born of darkness... What are they? Are they truly sentient beings? Could they be the shadows of those who lost their hearts in my experiments?"

"Students do take after their teachers. Only a fool would be your apprentice. After all, none of this would have happened without you. YOU are the source of all Heartless. It was your research that inspired me to go further than you ever dared."

Please don't make up story details in your attempt to rewrite this "false" information. ' 04:22, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

From charles:your the one who pretty much fell asleep boy. If you played the game you would realized that in the reports ansem "discovered the heartless" and if they came from the experments how come they came from kingdom hearts and their were millions of them. Read the kingdom hearts article it contrdicts your thinking or even better replay the whole game. You should use your head before you start talking about stuff that is based on opiuion

By the way when he said that"shawdows of the guys in my experments" he realized that his students turned int heartless.ou can't interpet things very correctly. Besides the heartless gave them interest to study the heart in the first place. You should know what your talking about.

Oh, Christ.

• "if they came from the experments how come they came from kingdom hearts and their were millions of them"
  • Kingdom Hearts attracts darkness. Bugs don't come from your porch light.
• "By the way when he said that"shawdows of the guys in my experments" he realized that his students turned int heartless.ou can't interpet things very correctly."
  • Xehanort wrote most of the original Ansem Reports. Your "inerpretation", for lack of a kind term, would be completely out of order with the timeline established in the Secret Ansem Reports. Apprentices become Heartless, but then help create the device for Emblem Heartless? You're supposed to use the information in all games to piece together a rough timeline, but you fail miserably at it. "ou can't interpret things very correctly." ' 05:15, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

How old are you five years old. Like I said your wrong agian. read other articles and see if they agrre with you for example the kingdom hearts article or the xenhnort article. They discovered the heartless while expermenting but they orginally came from kingdom hearts, moron. Have you even played the first game or seconed. you have aboslutly have no idea what your talking about. look this stuff up on the internet and see if your "facts" are corect. Heres is a quote from the xenahnort article "This resulted in Xehanort's discovery of the creatures which he named the "Heartless" which means he dicovered what happens when a person secumbs to the darkness of ones heart that doesn't mean he created them, it means he discovered them and here is a quote from the kingdom hearts article " her group is to collect seven maidens of the purest heart, the "Princesses of Heart", in order to open the pathway to Kingdom Hearts, which is the origin of all Heartless and a limitless repository of power and knowledge, equal to that contained within each individual's heart. In this sense, Kingdom Hearts is the heart of all worlds." and this one "the door to the realm of darkness threatens to unleash billions upon billions of Heartless". the heartless could have not replicated that fast to billions of pure bloods, they are not like insects as you desribed getting every where because they would never be able to get into the door way to the realm of darkness unless they came from their. USE COMMON SENSE and don't talk like a baby and try to discuss this inmaturly "oh christ" if you discuss somthing with someone, discuss like a debate not "oh christ"

I find it increasingly difficult to find the impetus to argue with you. You implore me to "discuss like a debate", yet your paragraph is rife with grammatical errors, incoherency, and lame insults. Believe whatever you wish; "YOU are the source of all Heartless." is more than enough to determine whichever interpretation is correct. ' 05:42, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Jesus calm down. I realized i was wrong in some places, the heartless in the realm of light came as a result of his experments but the orignals came from the realm of darkness right? The debate topic you clearly missed the point on, when you debate you debate calmly not try to inslut people. "your insluts are lame" You know I am just asking, how old are you

"your responsible for all the heartless" this means he is responsible for all of the heartless in the realm of light. OK so please stop acting like a little kid and talk like normal human beings

I fail to see any adjectival clause stating only in the realm of light. You're entirely making up this nonsense without actual evidence. I also implore you to find what "Pot and Kettle" mean in colloquial English. ' 06:18, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

i had enough talking to a little kid like you and fighting over a game. If you like to fight over video games their is obvoiusly somthing wrong with you. I gave you evidince and because you play to much video games you don't want to discuss this in a cilivized way. If you keep making personal attacks i will report you. I am not making anthing up, the realm of light is part of the game lore.

I implore you: Pot and Kettle. You have failed to prove that the Heartless were only introduced in the realm of light by Xehanort's experiments. ' 06:33, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Can we please stop fighting over this stupid thing. You don't have to turn this into a personal fight

Read other articles about kingdom hearts ok and see if your correct. You failed to even check them because your afraid of being wrong

You hypocrite, first you said that the Heartless only came by Ansems experments and now your telling me to they didn't "You have failed to prove that the Heartless were only introduced in the realm of light by Xehanort's experiments" Why would you want me to prove somthing that you already believe and your calling me the hypocrite. What did I say thats hypcritcy anyway. By the way the saying is called "pot calling the kettle black"

I'm not sure you have a firm grasp on what I'm saying, nor if you understand what hypocrisy entails. ' 06:55, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Being a hypocrite means to claim or talk about somthing you don't really know or possess and/or to contrdict yourself. I am sorry for saying that stuff to you, your right and I am wrong. Sorry for getting off at a very bad start.