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Contents 1 Roll call - April 2 Housekeeping 2.1 Clean-up Suggestions 2.2 Redirects 2.3 Categories for deletion 3 Issues 3.1 Final Fantasy XII box shot 3.2 Hyphens and colons 3.3 How did FFVII cut the line for front page? 3.4 Spoiler Warnings: a compromise 3.5 "Main character," "male/female protagonist," or "hero/heroine?" 3.6 M-m-m-monsters? 3.7 Final Fantasy Articles: Game Covers 3.8 Current results of Article Improvement Drive 3.9 Bold proposal 3.10 Logic of the FF series template 3.11 Need some help with the FFVI article 3.12 And speaking of the FFVI article 3.13 FFVIII Featured Topic and "World of" articles? 3.14 Are "Compilation of FFVII," "Fabula Nova Crystallis FFXIII," and "Ivalice Alliance" series?

[edit] Roll call - April

Please sign your name below to show that you are around and still with the project.

1. — Deckiller 06:58, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
2. — Melodia 11:55, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
3. — anomie I guess I'll stay, even though my only interest here at the moment is the NES version of Final Fantasy Anomie 12:02, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
4. — Bluerです。 ^なにか? 15:16, 1 April 2007 (UTC) — Maintenance of Final Fantasy XII and related articles, such as rewriting Ivalice.
5. — Teggles 19:16, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
6. — RaCha'ar 00:02, 2 April 2007 (UTC) In theory, pushing FFXI to FA. Eventually. When I have time.
7. —ΔαίδαλοςΣΣ 16:00, 2 April 2007 (UTC) Working slowly but surely on Characters of Final Fantasy IX, I'm looking at GA soon.
8. — PresN 05:37, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
9. — wwwwolf (barks/growls) 15:00, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
10. - Just back to fix up the apparent FFVI-related problems. I won't let my prized work die on me. --Sir Crazyswordsman 04:52, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
11. Sjones23 20:58, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Housekeeping

[edit] Clean-up Suggestions

• Main Final Fantasy article - What should be the flagship article of this entire project is in dire need or some organization and serious need of citation. I know pretty much everyone's started back to school and busy as ever, but try to lend a hand if you get time. We've focused on our favorite games, gotten many featured, and watch over them like hawks, but this article needs help. ~ Hibana 02:09, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
• Upholding the Manual of Style

[edit] Redirects

Redirects have become rampant in these past few months. .... Be sure to check all articles containing these redirects using the "What links here" option.

[edit] Categories for deletion

n/a

[edit] Issues

[edit] Final Fantasy XII box shot

I recently changed the Box art for Final Fantasy XII (Image:Ffxiicase.jpg) to the original Japanese version since the main text on the Japanese box was in English, so I thought the original should be used.

It was reverted with the reasoning: "Please note that the North American cover is used in place of the original Japanese cover because this is the English language Wikipedia and readers would be more familiar with cover art released in English-speaking countries."

I believe that the original Japanese box should be used because:

• This is the original box.
• The main text on the Japanese box is in English.
• The American cover art is used ONLY in America, Europe and other regions also use the Japanese art, not the American.
• The majority of the world is not American.

Rather than get into an edit war, I decided to post here to get your opinions. I have also posted this on the Video Games Wikiproject. Mattyatty 09:41, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Although I don't want to make a stance on this, let's compare the figures:

• There are 251 million English speakers in United States
• There are 25.24 million English speakers in Canada
• There are 229.85 million English speakers in Europe.
• There are 17.35 million English speakers in Australia.
• There are 3.67 million English speakers in New Zealand.

That means you have 276.24 million English speakers in the NTSC-U/C region and 250.87 million English speakers in the PAL region. Which would be the better choice for an English encyclopedia? --Teggles 23:39, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I think your post just prooves that it's NOT cut and dry. It's close enough that one doesn't have a clear trump over the other. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 00:05, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Plus, NA was split between two covers. I think using the cover that matches the original release is a good idea, since it was used in English-speaking regions. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 01:08, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Also, as a notable mention, Yoshitaka Amano, the series' image illustrator since FFVII, designed its title logo as with all of the previous logos for the FF series. --Sjones23 20:31, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Since this doesn't seem to definitively go either way, I'm inclined to go with the NTSC-U/C cover art simply because it's more colorful and features characters on it (personal preference, really, but the aesthetic concern exists). Judging by strict numbers, the US and Canada still have a slight advantage as well (unless each country in Europe gets its own electoral vote, ^_^). Also, all of the other FF articles currently have the NTSC-U/C cover. Anyone else care to discuss? Axem Titanium 21:39, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

You might as well change the box arts for FFVII through XI, because of that "excellent" logic of yours, Mattyatty. NeoSeifer

Does no-one else think that the cover art used on PAL versions of Final Fantasy is much better looking that that of all other counterparts? It is a personal preference but I think the simple design is great, and all the Final Fantasy's have similar cases, wonderful. Gavin Scott 22:43, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

All of the other FF articles use the NA cover? I beg to differ. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 22:44, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I don't care too much either way. Since the divide between the number of English speakers in each region is so close, I think it should come down to a judgment call based on what would look better to readers unfamiliar to the series (ie, whichever one is more eye-catching to someone who sees it on the main page). Axem Titanium 03:32, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

That wouldn't help either, since it seems to be a cultural thing which one is the one deemed more eye-catching, otherwise only one version would be used to sell the game. To me the Japan/EU one is much more eye-catching than the brightly coloured one, since many games are brightly coloured but few use such a simple design, those the simple one stands out more to me. --84.184.122.72 11:18, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Uh, the North American version, unfortunately, doesn't have Amano's artwork depicting a judge. The Japanese, European and Australian versions do, so that is why the NA version was only used in NA itself. Just a heads up. I really like Amano's artwork for the title logo designs and image illustrations. It suits this article similar to the previous games. All of the Japanese and PAL games for the Playstation and Playstation 2 from FFVII onward have Amano's designs on a simple, plain white background. Sjones23 19:31, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually PAL version of FFVI also has that similar design. See: [1] --Mika1h 19:46, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

So, what's the consensus? Kariteh 16:52, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Uhhh.... Man in Black says the Japanese cover is really necessary. That discussion is already dealt with. Sjones23 21:10, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Also, I think the Japanese cover for FFs are totally the best. Any more things that you can throw in? It would be greatly appreciated. Sjones23 20:53, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hyphens and colons

There's been a slow moving pseudo edit war going on over the past few months about the article titles of the Compilation articles. The argument is over the use of colons and hyphens (e.g. "Before Crisis: Final Fantasy VII" or "Before Crisis -Final Fantasy VII-"). Basically, according to the WP:MOSTM, "follow standard English text formatting and capitalization rules even if the trademark owner encourages special treatment". According to User:SeizureDog, this entails removing the hyphens. However, it also stipulates "don't invent new formats", which is precisely what would be happening if one added an extra colon. I don't believe it would be too unreasonable to keep the hyphens in the article title (respecting Square Enix's copyright), while still "following standard English text formatting" within the article after mentioning the full title in the lead section (e.g., it would be referred to as "Dirge of Cerberus" instead of the full title "Dirge of Cerberus -Final Fantasy VII-", per WP:VG's style guidelines). I just thought I'd open up the discussion to the rest of WP:FF. Axem Titanium 21:40, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

I think the colon looks much more professional and clean, but that's a personal opinion. — Deckiller 00:14, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I personally am inclined to using hyphens, but I feel that the guideline tends towards the use of colons. My reluctant vote: colons. --—ΔαίδαλοςΣΣ 00:38, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

But does it make sense not to "invent new formats" such as using a colon? Axem Titanium 02:24, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

How is using a colon inventing a new format? It is simply using standard English. Kariteh 15:31, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Standard English doesn't involve adding colons where they don't exist. I would prefer "Before Crisis Final Fantasy VII" over adding a new colon. Axem Titanium 15:59, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Strictly speaking, "standard English text formatting" rules include the usage of the colon to separate clauses within a sentence, as well as to separate a title from a subtitle. Both would seem to apply in this situation: the title of the game as presented by SE clearly intends the specific game title to be separated from "Final Fantasy VII," which explains the inclusion of the hyphens. They're using a nonstandard method of dividing the title, yes, but the title is clearly divided. The standard method would be to use a colon, not to remove the division entirely. – Sean Daugherty (talk) 03:57, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I realize consensus is against me and also that I don't care about the issue quite as much as I did when I first brought it up back in October. Anyway, if Square Enix's own preference and the fact that using hyphens in an article title doesn't hurt anyone don't convince you, then so be it. Axem Titanium 03:37, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

I remember why I first brought this up. It was the case of Dirge of Cerberus Lost Episode, because it's just so weirdly titled. I'd like to come to a consensus about the title of this article before moving on. Axem Titanium 15:22, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] How did FFVII cut the line for front page?

FFVI, FFVIII, FFX-2, and I believe Chrono Trigger all got FA before FFVII. --Sir Crazyswordsman 01:02, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Only Raul knows that one; I think he picked the "most popular". :-) — Deckiller 01:07, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Where do I bitch about this? --Sir Crazyswordsman 15:56, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

User talk:Raul654, but it'd be a waste of your time, since the FA queue is pretty much done by whim. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 15:58, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, you can pull some strings, right? --Sir Crazyswordsman 22:45, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Pull some strings with whom? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 04:02, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spoiler Warnings: a compromise

I try not to be stubborn, and I try to know when to quit or realize that previous ArbCom decisions will result in a losing scenerio anyway. To keep this issue from turning into another Wikipedia-wide debate on a new battleground, I have drawn up an idea for a compromise. Hopefully, this will allow both the Final Fantasy WikiProject and those who feel that spoiler warnings need to be used in certain situations to walk away without stress.

• As it has been for the last year, the Final Fantasy WikiProject should not use spoiler warnings for sections or articles labeled as "plot", "story", or "appearences".
• Spoilers must be kept out of the lead sections of all articles, regardless if the tags are used later in the article. An exception is if the character is notable for the spoiler, or is influenced by that spoiler for the majority of the game. Case by case basis is key.
• Because all articles should have an out of universe perspective, spoilers will naturally be geared toward the end of the synopsis/appearences sections, which is why warnings are not necessary for those sections. The exception is setting sections, which are not spoiler-heavy anyway.
• Spoiler warnings should be used in articles where they are not already labeled by sections or article titles, such as Music, Gameplay, or Locations. One tag at the end of the lead section should be enough. However, not all of these articles require spoiler warnings; if a user expresses a need for a spoiler tag in one of these articles, it should be included unless a solid counterargument is given. For example, if the Music of Final Fantasy VII article mentions a certain character's death at the end of the first disk as one of the times in which a theme song plays, there should be a spoiler warning, as it is not expected.
• The in-line editors notes telling users not to add spoiler warnings to plot/story/appreances sections will be turned into polite statements, with an explanation of the rationale and a gesture to this talkpage or the project's style guide.

Thoughts on this compromise? — Deckiller 05:27, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I have no problem with that. You could probably be even more strict/persuasive than that, and just avoid using the word "ban". -- Ned Scott 05:34, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Okay; I added a point to the fourth bullet at the end. — Deckiller 05:39, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Um. About no spoilers in the lead...

Aerith Gainsborough is most noted for being killed in Final Fantasy VII. I don't want to start Yet Another Pointless Aeris Spoiler Fight (although I DID start the last Yet Another How To Spell Her Goddamned Name Fuck It I'm Naming It The Final Fantasy VII Heroine Who Isn't Tifa fight), but what fact could possibly be more important to take from the Aeris article than the fact that she's in FFVII and dies halfway through? Darth Vader, while not the greatest article ever by any means, rightly mentions in the lead that Darth Vader is Luke's father. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 05:41, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I reworded that bit. — Deckiller 05:48, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

An unclosed spoiler tag encompassing everything in the article but the lead is certainly a... novel way of dealing with the issue. --PresN 05:42, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

This compromise doesn't seem so much a compromise, as it does a clarification of what we were already doing at the beginning of the month. I still believe that the project consensus is against spoiler warnings in any form, and that we should follow the project consensus. I am voicing my disagreement, but I will follow this compromise if no one else objects to the compromise. --—ΔαίδαλοςΣΣ 19:44, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

This compromise was not really sparked by the outside opinions above; a similar situation has been seen before with naming conventions, and has resulted in an ArbCom case. I'm not willing to waste time at ArbCom, especially since people might want to use it as a quick way to get rid of our opinions. — Deckiller 19:49, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

My thoughts- I don't like spoiler tags at all. I see them as really unprofessional, no matter where they are used. Nevertheless, I agree that there is a reasonable assumption by readers that there will not be spoilers in sections that aren't named things like "plot" or "story", and that there will certainly not be spoilers in the lead. I see a different solution, however: not that we should use spoiler tags for spoilers in those sections, but that we shouldn't use spoilers in those sections, if it can be at all avoided. I know it's a pain, especially for big ones like Aerith Dies, but in most cases doable. If there's no way around it, I reluctantly agree that tags can be used (case-by-case basis, how'd that happen?). I also agree on the rewording of some of the "invisible" comments, as a few of them seem to be written by someone who had reverted a lot of tagging that week and were in a pissy mood about it. --PresN 05:48, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree that they are unprofessional, but sadly, we're in the minority here, so we have no choice but to compromise now. — Deckiller 05:53, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

I recently changed the "invisible" comment in Final Fantasy (video game)'s Plot section to reference this discussion, which may be useful as a starting point for a standard comment. The other comment there, BTW, reflects the consensus that the NES names should be used in the non-remake-specific sections of that article. Previously we had no consistency due to people editing in whatever name happened to be used in the remake they just played. Anomie 15:38, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Main character," "male/female protagonist," or "hero/heroine?"

I'm in the middle of a huge debate over what main characters should be called. What do you think they should be called? --Sir Crazyswordsman 22:46, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

• Comment:I think you could use protagonist or hero in articles it makes little difference. However,

Cloud Strife (クラウド・ストライフ, Kuraudo Sutoraifu?): The game's hero

Squall Leonhart (スコール・レオンハート, Sukōru Reonhāto?) is the main protagonist

Zidane Tribal (ジタン・トライバル, Jitan Toraibaru?) is the hero

Tidus (ティーダ, Tīda?) is the hero

As you can see, hero is used more often, I recomend you go with the majority in this debate. (Though, I wouldn't say main protagonist I would say primary protagonist.)Gavin Scott 23:42, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

We've ruled out the hero/heroine one in numerous debates with an anon user named "Eileen". I'd say either of the first two would be fine. The Eileen user just refuses to go with consesus and she keeps on including the word "hero' in articles. It's POV and unencyclopedic. — Deckiller 23:44, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Holy crap! The person fighting with us is also Eileen! --Sir Crazyswordsman 23:49, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

We've already surpressed her on numerous occasions. Plus, I've been lenient and haven't blocked her for the numerous times she's violated 3RR. I think it's time to steamroll. I know we're not a groupthink device, but there comes a time where policy is being upholded by all but one editor, so that one editor needs to stop having such a large say in stalling consensus. — Deckiller 23:59, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

• Comment — I've seen some of these debates, and the three primary reasons (that I've seen) that are argued to use "Hero" instead of "Protagonist" are 1) "Hero" is an easier/simpler word to use, 2) "Hero" describes the character as a person of great achievements which he surely is, and 3) "Protagonist" is an unknown word to the editor and thus must be not well known in general. On the first point, simplification is inappropriate when it does not preserve the exact concept of the more complex word. On the second point, that is entirely POV, is unattributable and is actually a reason why NOT to use the term "Hero". On the third point, ignorance of a word is no excuse to exclude it's usage, nor is it a reasonable to assume that everyone else is also ignorant of it just because you are. Bottom line, we are an encyclopedia, and we are not Simple English Wikipedia. If you want to change the word to be simpler and easier for you to understand, go edit there and not here. This encyclopedia is about making coverage complete and as clear as possible as long as it is not over-simplified. --—ΔαίδαλοςΣΣ 00:12, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Although I'm entirely against the use of "hero" and "heroine", I'll just have to correct you there. The argument isn't limited to those points. The manuals of Final Fantasy VII and VIII respectively refer to Cloud and Squall as heroes. --Teggles 03:46, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that those were the only points, but rather those were the points that I was aware of. I did not mean for my list to be all-inclusive. --—ΔαίδαλοςΣΣ 04:51, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

• Comment To be honest, I am very unsure on this topic. I can understand why hero could be used, but I also understand the reasons it shouldn't be. Is it point of view? I would disagree, in the case of Final Fantasy VII there is no debate that Cloud is the hero of the game, I think the real problem is people are against hero due to its connotations rather than its meaning.

According to the freedictionary, 4. The principal male character in a novel, poem, or dramatic presentation

Gavin Scott 10:55, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

That's an incomplete definition. From www.dictionary.com:

1. a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities.
2. a person who, in the opinion of others, has heroic qualities or has performed a heroic act and is regarded as a model or ideal: He was a local hero when he saved the drowning child.
3. the principal male character in a story, play, film, etc.
4. Classical Mythology. a being of godlike prowess and beneficence who often came to be honored as a divinity.
5. Classical Mythology. (in the Homeric period) a warrior-chieftain of special strength, courage, or ability.
6. Classical Mythology. (in later antiquity) an immortal being; demigod.
7. hero sandwich.
8. the bread or roll used in making a hero sandwich.

"Protagonist," on the other hand:

1. the leading character, hero, or heroine of a drama or other literary work.
2. a proponent for or advocate of a political cause, social program, etc.
3. the leader or principal person in a movement, cause, etc.
4. the first actor in ancient Greek drama, who played not only the main role, but also other roles when the main character was offstage. Compare deuteragonist, tritagonist.
5. Physiology. agonist.

The difference is clear: the vast majority of the definitions for "Hero" refer to something far more POV than simply a main character. "Protagonist", on the other hand, ONLY refers to the NPOV main character concept. This is in accordance with their denotations NOT connotations. --—ΔαίδαλοςΣΣ 00:52, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

• Reply to NicholaiDaedalus- the leading character, hero, or heroine of a drama or other literary work.. So, the definition of Protagonist is hero? This is what the dictionary indicates. However, Protagonist according to wikipedia is- the central figure of a story...can be a hero or a villain. So, in trying to reach a conclusion (I havn't actually given my personal opinion) I recommend we do go with, protagonist as our lead in. However, for those who are unsure of what protagonist means (saving them the trouble of googling/googleing) should it not be hyperlinked to the wiki-article? Just for accessibility reasons. Gavin Scott 09:52, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

• In addition: If the lead character of the game is called the protagonist then why is the lead female character called the primary female protagonist? This doesn't make sense, shouldn't Squall, in the case of FFVIII, be introduced as the primary male protagonist? Nay, I doubt any would favour that, instead I think that we should remove primary female protagonist and perhaps introduce the lead female as, if applicable the love intrest as that is what she usually is or not give her any special introduction at all.Gavin Scott 10:08, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

To your reply. As you no doubt know based on your posts, dictionaries are often unclear and subject to interpretation. My interpretation is that this definition is to be read as "either the leading character, OR the hero, OR the heroine" meaning that Hero and heroine are examples of a protagonist. This does not to me imply that the list is all-inclusive, and I see no reason that a villian cannot be included in the intent of that definition. I see nothing wrong with wiki-linking "Protagonist", and think that that's a harmless idea.

To your addition. I believe that that was an attempt to clarify the term "heroine" once the POV issue with "Hero" was brought up. Personally, I feel that "heroine" is most often associated with a love intereast than it is with a female hero, and see nothing wrong with using that term. However, I can easily see how someone can argue that it is as equally innappropriate as "hero". I don't like the phrase "primary male protagonist" because Squall is THE protagonist, no sense over-complicating his title. So by association, I don't like using "primary female protagonist" in conjunction with Squall's "protagonist". I second your idea and think that we should simply use "love interest." --—ΔαίδαλοςΣΣ 19:59, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] M-m-m-monsters?

I could probably use my ever-expanding Final Fantasy XII bestiary to help write and improve articles or sections of articles about monsters. Or are monsters too minor to have their own articles? Shadow Scythe of Strongbadia?! 12:14, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Monsters are way too minor. Creatures of Final Fantasy only covers the monsters seen in the most games (like Cactaur, etc), and even that is borderline notability for Wikipedia. You might be interested in helping the bestiaries at the Final Fantasy Wiki though. — Deckiller 14:57, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Dang. I can never find anything to contribute to on Wikipedia. Oh, except Bomberman Quest. Maybe I should go ahead and do that. Shadow Scythe of Strongbadia?! 22:02, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Listen to what Deck says. We NEED your help over at Wikia. --Sir Crazyswordsman 16:34, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Final Fantasy Articles: Game Covers

I was thinking, maybe the Final Fantasy games should have their japanese game covers in the articles (In replacement of the mostly US covers) As this keeps consistency, in all of the articles and also the consistency of the games japanese origins. Just asuggestion that I had in mind, what do you think? Keyblade Wielder 10:44, 24 March 2007 (AWST)

I'd like to point you to a discussion above. Axem Titanium 03:38, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Current results of Article Improvement Drive

I just passed Final Fantasy II for GA, which means that every single main final fantasy, as well as Adventures and Mystic Quest, are now GA or higher. Our featured topic is looking pretty good right about now. Speaking of Featured Topics, with Characters of Final Fantasy VIII almost certainly to pass FAC, and Rinoa Heartilly up at GAC, it wouldn't take much to make a Final Fantasy VIII featured topic pretty soon. FF8 and characters would be FA, Squall and Rinoa GA, which leaves Music of Final Fantasy VIII and Chocobo World in the template as B-class. I know everyone's busy with projects like pushing FFXII to FA and improving the other "characters" articles to match FF8's, but it's something to think about. Good job to everyone who helps out this project, good luck to the people working on FFXII right now, and a big thanks to Deckiller, who with his GA nom of FF2 and his FAC of chars of FF8, will have significantly contributed to 7 FAs and 8 GAs, with a 9th coming. --PresN 17:36, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually, Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles has yet to reach the GA status; it even has a big Clean-Up template at the top of its page. But I guess it's not a main FF. Kariteh 18:12, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks PresN, although everyone has conributed to make this possible. Ouch, that one does need a lot of work. Perhaps before we get into improving all the gameplay subarticles and after the CharFF8 FAC, the FFXII FAC, and the FF8 FTC, perhaps we should focus our attentions on getting all the titles to GA? — Deckiller 23:31, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Out of those titles remaining to get GA/FA status, the only one I've played significantly is Tactics. I might be able to help out with that. — Deckiller 23:36, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bold proposal

This is a bold proposal, but it will only take 10-15 minutes of effort. I propose we merge the article Locations in Spira into Spira (Final Fantasy X). My rationale is that the games with significant out of universe sources available - 7 through 12 - really only need one setting subarticle. A subarticle for a subarticle seems excessive, especially with today's standards. Both are excellent works, so it should only make the core stronger by performing this merge. Of course, we can (and probably should, in my opinion) save this and the other setting articles until after the main articles reach maximum status. — Deckiller 00:13, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't see this as being all that bold, in the sense that it could take a bit of work, but it makes perfect sense! Gavin Scott 15:42, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

The only problem I can see is that they are both reasonable sized articles, so merging would require reducing the amount of content, which may dissadvantage readers. Mattyatty 18:06, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps, but it could also serve as a means to preserve only the most necessary information, which is what an encyclopedia should do. We can take the full sections to the Wikia and provide an external link. I saw an editor flag one of the articles for some WP:WAF issue a few weeks back, and that's what got me thinking. — Deckiller 22:53, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Logic of the FF series template

Unreleased games don't belong in the template... but then why does Ivalice Alliance appear in it? No game or this collection has been released yet. Kariteh 20:32, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Now it doesn't. You can still get to it with the "Others" link, which is why it exists in the first place. --PresN 21:00, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, thanks for having removed it. Kariteh 14:21, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Need some help with the FFVI article

Someone added some tags that say the article needs sources. (specifically, the Localization section and the GBA section). I'm looking for sources from around the web, and I need help finding and adding them. I also think that much of this is trivial anyway, and should be removed from the article. --Sir Crazyswordsman 16:45, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

That was me, in case you didn't know. I added it, because some sections do not cite its references or sources. So, please, cite your sources for FFVI. Sjones23 21:08, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Most of it's finished now. I just need a source where someone says something about character lengths. Woolsey interviews may have the source. --Sir Crazyswordsman 05:02, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Did you all hear that? If sources when someone says something about character lengths for the FFVI article, that will be totally appreciated! I quote from Sir Crazyswordsman that "Woolsey interviews may have the source." Sjones23 20:57, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

If I can't find the source in a week, I'm going to remove that sentence. I won't let my prized work die. --Sir Crazyswordsman 22:53, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] And speaking of the FFVI article

I found a "Masters' Guide" which is what Ultimania used to be called, for FFVI. I don't know why we don't have articles on these or at least mention them in the Ultimania article. --Sir Crazyswordsman 22:59, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

If you can find some info on it to add, that would be great! Axem Titanium 02:08, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Basically, what these are are called "Final Fantasy Settei Siryou," (or "Final Fantasy creation material.") and these are the actual name for Ultimanias. Ultimania is in no way unique to the Sony FF games, to FF in general, or to Square in general. I don't have anymore FFVI info, but Here is an FFIV one in the process of being translated. It looks really cool. I think this just MIGHT be the thing that allows us to bring other FFIV topics into Featured status (the article already is). Even if you don't find anything useful, it's still a great read. Enjoy! --Sir Crazyswordsman 05:01, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] FFVIII Featured Topic and "World of" articles?

For anyone who hasn't seen yet, Final Fantasy VIII has a FTC here. Anyway, a current point of contention is the necessity of a "World of" type of article as Deckiller mentioned. This hypothetical article would replace the "List of foo locations" articles by converting it into an article with out-of-universe perspective. Personally, I really like the idea but I'm a little worried about sources. On the other hand, I think all the other FF articles should follow FFVIII's template of having a "Characters of" and "Music of" supplement articles. Anyway, I digress. Are we up for a "World of" article? Axem Titanium 02:22, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I have one in the sandbox right now User:Deckiller/World of Final Fantasy VIII to see if enough material can be gathered. — Deckiller 02:41, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Argh, I thought now was too early for a Featured Topic Candidate. I'd like to see Music of Final Fantasy VIII featured article and World of Final Fantasy VIII good article. Right now I'm considering to vote against the FTC. Let's observe what we have: 2 FAs and 3 GAs. It doesn't sound very substantial for an FTC. --Teggles 11:25, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

To add to that, I've found a very good official interview that could help A LOT with the "creation and influence" section in Music of Final Fantasy VIII (which has yet to be created...). After that there needs to be a compact of the albums (remove those ugly infoboxes), a "sheet music" section, and a "legacy" section (with things like concerts etc.). I plan to do this myself, I probably won't, but I'll attempt it. --Teggles 12:06, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Many featured topics do not even have all their articles at GA status. 2 FAs and 3 GAs is actually very good for a featured topic. More work can obviously be done to get the GAs to A-class or FA-class (for example, the star wars episodes FT and even our own final fantasy FT), but it's already met the criterion for FT quite well. Also, a lot of featured topics add subarticles as they are created or improved (the Final Fantasy titles FT is a good example). — Deckiller 13:28, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Interesting how you wanted to do FFVIII before Ivalice. Ivalice is probably much easier. I think Ivalice should be our next target. --Sir Crazyswordsman 14:57, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Are "Compilation of FFVII," "Fabula Nova Crystallis FFXIII," and "Ivalice Alliance" series?

(copy-pasted from User talk:Kariteh#Fabula Nova Crystallis Final Fantasy XIII)

I question the addition of Fabula Nova Crystallis Final Fantasy XIII as a series to the Final Fantasy XIII, Final Fantasy Versus XIII and Final Fantasy Agito XIII. Fabula Nova Crystallis is not a series; in essence it is just a collection of games formed around a common mythos. Final Fantasy VII, for example, doesn't list the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII as a "series", even though it includes many spinoffs, and I don't see why FFXIII should either. If Fabula Nova Crystallis is linked to in the first couple of paragraphs of any given article it covers, that would be perhaps more helpful than listing it as a series. --EvilReborn [会話]

We have to consider these things from an out-of-universe perspective. FFVII doesn't list CoFFVII as a series (and I didn't add it myself to the infobox) because FFVII simply is not part of CoFFVII, and neither are FFVII Snowboarding and Maiden Who Travels The Planet. Even though they are all part of the Final Fantasy series and are related to FFVII. As for Fabula Nova Crystallis, isn't "a collection of games formed around a common mythos" precisely what a series is at the very least, if it's what the creators state (regardless of the presence or absence of storyline connections between the games)? The creators of the games are the ones who decide what's part or not of a series, and the storyline connections are often not considered. For instance FFAdventure is part of both the FF and the Seiken Densetsu series (while Secret of Mana is only part of the SD series).

In any case, I'm going to copy-paste this on the WP:FF talk page, since if it has to be discussed, it has to be discussed with everyone. Kariteh 14:52, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

What exactly is the problem here? Please don't tell me we're going to be arguing about the semantics of the word "series". Axem Titanium 11:52, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

The point is that EvilReborn questioned the addition of Fabula Nova Crystallis as a series to the infoboxes of the FFXIII/etc. articles. I put this stuff here for people to read in case someone were to revert the edits and say that FNC is not a series. But if no one disagree that FNC, Compilation of FFVII, etc. are series, then alright there's no problem. Kariteh 16:52, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

How do you define a series? "Final Fantasy" is a series, and yet the games are even less like each other than Fabula Nova Crystallis. "Seiken Densetsu" is a series, and yet their games are as different from each other as "Final Fantasy." The word "series" is very vague, and operates on subjective levels. For example, the book The Legend of Huma is part of the Heros series, which in turn is part of the Dragonlance series, which in turn is part of the Dungeons and Dragons series. The heroes series is a collection of stories that are related to each other. The Dragonlance series is a collection of stories that are unrelated to each other, but take place on the same world. The Dungeons and Dragons series is a collection of books that are unrelated, take place on different worlds, but all hold to a common mythos and theme. Just because they aren't sequels/prequels doesn't mean it can't be a series. I can name several examples off the top of my head that refute such a rule: The Dragonlance series I just described, The Xanth series (since book 10, 1-9 were sequels), The Alfred Hitchcock Presents series, Boogiepop Phantom, The Star Trek series (just try and tell me that DS9 and Voyager are related beyond the basic technology/mythos, I dare you!), the Tales from the Crypt series, etc. The list just keeps going. Obviously, a collection of games based around a common mythos can very well be a "series". --—ΔαίδαλοςΣΣ 19:31, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

If the only issue is whether or not the "Fabula Nova Crystallis FFXIII" page should be linked in the infobox, then the answer is a resounding "yes". Axem Titanium 21:10, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Actually, it shouldn't, as no games have been released in the series, though I agree with Nicholai's point. --PresN 05:39, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Released or not, they are still part of the series. FNC should absolutely appear as the listed (and linked) series in the infobox of the XIII articles. Perhaps you were thinking of the Navigation Box (in which it shouldn't)? --—ΔαίδαλοςΣΣ 14:14, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I was definitely thinking of the wrong box. Silly me. Yes, Fabula blah blah should appear in the series section of the FF13 infobox, as it is in fact a series, and one that FF13 is a part of. --PresN 22:47, 4 April 2007 (UTC)