Talk:Hillel: The Foundation for Jewish Campus Life

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Contents 1 Reproductive freedom/social justice concern 2 Hillel and Zionism 3 Name 4 Hillel Staff Ought Not Edit / NPOV Issues 5 Date/Grammar problem 6 Unhappy with way article is written 7 Advertising 8 Seidler-Feller assault case

[edit] Reproductive freedom/social justice concern

I am removing the last paragraph from this page because supporting abortion is not social justice. --StevenL 20:40, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

I admit the article is vague, but it does not mention abortion, which is social activism anyway, if not social justice (when seen as a basic right of a mother). That does not seem to necessitate removing a paragraph that otherwise details an important, if controversial, aspect of Hillel's activities. jnothman ^talk 02:28, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

I have always been under the impression that the March for Womens Lives event is correlated with support for abortion policies. True, perhaps the mentioning of Hillel's activities is worth mentioning but is closer to social activism, not social justice. If this is the case then the article should have been initially written as "social activism." So shame on the original writer of the article for doing a piss-poor job. --StevenL 03:29, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Hillel's web site says[1]:

The March for Women's Lives is primarily concerned with the rights of reproductive freedom and choice for all women. Other issues being brought to light in this march are family planning, health, justice, civil rights, and abortion law.

So maybe an issue raised there is abortion law, but most of it does seem to be social justice-oriented. I will reinsert the paragraph, changing social justice to social activism. jnothman ^talk 14:06, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

great :) --StevenL 22:46, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hillel and Zionism

I'm deleting the last half of the last paragraph. Unsourced accusations about behaviour of Hillel staff and random link to anti-zionist prof are not relevant. djheart 05:03, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Name

I moved the title from Hillel Society, which has never been the official name, to Hillel: The Foundation for Jewish Campus Life. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by WBcoleman (talk • contribs) .

I was pondering this move too. Thanks. jnothman ^talk 13:55, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I fixed the link on the Hillel disambig article. Karimarie 03:12, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hillel Staff Ought Not Edit / NPOV Issues

The most recent revision was from an IP address that is located at Hillel's office. [2] So I reverted in principle. If someone wants to do a rewrite, go ahead. -- Posted by User:Hyim 17 May 2006 (info added by 201.78.233.162 03:21, 12 June 2006 (UTC) )

Question: Why should it be a problem if Hillel staff edits this? Does Wikipedia now have a policy or guideline against this sort of thing? -- 201.78.233.162 03:22, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

• I know of no policy, but I can see why someone who works for Hillel could lack an NPOV.--Hraefen 03:35, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Of course, but the operative word is could. Instead of just saying, "Whoa, this person is from X, therefore we should remove their contribution," we should judge each contribution on its own merits. It could be NPOV and great!" -- 201.78.233.162 00:11, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I disagree on reverting someone's edits based on the fact that they are an employee of the organization whose article is being edited. As long as they are being impartial and not making it sound like an advertisement, they should be allowed to edit. Indeed, the people with the most information about specific organizations are the ones who work there. Valley2city 20:02, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Date/Grammar problem

"The organization was founded in 1923 at the University of Illinois by B'nai Brith .... By then, it encompassed 120 Hillel foundations and affiliates at an additional 400 campuses."

This makes no sense ("founded in 1923 ... by then it encompassed 120 Hillel foundations"). Can someone please clarify? Thanks. -- 201.78.233.162 03:14, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unhappy with way article is written

It deeply offends me that this article talks about Hillel in such a negative light. While there may be some problems going on at the national level many local hillel's such as the one at Indiana University I attend is very open and representative of all people and I feel very welcome there. About 2/3 of the jewish students at IU come in yearly and each and every one talks about how welcome they feel and I know for a fact this is the case at most Hillel's. I think it is imperative that it be mentioned in this article that while nationally there might be problems a lot of local hillels do a great job of providing student services.

• First off: get an account if you want your criticisms to be taken seriously. Secondly: find some sourced info that supports what you say and put it in the article. But please don't remove any sourced info that upsets your sensibilities. Always discuss major revisions before making them. Good luck.--Hraefen ^Talk 15:23, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Response to What I was told:

It seems a lot of the articles current criticisms don't have sources supporting them so how come you are telling me I need sources to prove what I am saying.

Secondly I do have an account on Wikipedia I just did not log in when I wrote this.

• Well, accounts are only good if they're used. And the criticism section has multiple cites and one request for a cite, so I'd say it's not perfect, but far from uncited. Try to keep in mind that just because "About 2/3 of the jewish students at IU" don't have gripes against Hillel, that doesn't mean that they are a representative sample of people in general.--Hraefen ^Talk 16:52, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Response to your response: I am well aware of the countless problems at Hillel nationally trust me, it just seems that you should make the article a bit more positive and mention how welcoming some local Hillel are as well. Also have you ever been to Hillel to know what it is like. I for one have been to several and the people there seemed to feel very welcomed and the staff was very welcoming.

• Again... please use an account. If you can find cites to back up what you're saying, then by all means, put it in the article. And whether I have "ever been to Hillel to know what it is like" is immaterial. Write from citable sources, not from experience and opinion.--Hraefen ^Talk 17:11, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Advertising

I significantly changed (and condensed) this article a few weeks ago, does anyone else think the "advertising" notice can be deleted yet?Zavtrakat 01:07, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Seidler-Feller assault case

Discuss to avert revert-war. To me, as written it doesn't belong because it's about a person who is connected with Hillel, not Hillel itself and not overtly acting in the name of Hillel. I have no problem with info that places Hillel in a negative light, provided that it's actually related to Hillel and not just someone who happens to be affiliated with it, and that it's worded to give the same meaning as the citation given. The citation here:

• Does not support that Hillel was responsible for (or took responsibility for) the assault. We don't know what was in the "undisclosed settlement" and a settlement payment itself often just means cheaper to pay than to fight.
• Does not support that the assault was done in the name of the Hillel organization, at their direction, or as part of his capacity as leader (which is different than being done as himself or incidentally while "on duty").
• Does not support that Hillel handled the fallout inappropriately.

A poor leader isn't intrinsically a reflection of a poor organization. If this event is to be kept as evidence that "Hillel International refused to censure a staffer who assulted a women" then the cite needs to be supportive of that specifically, which the given cite does not appear to do (neither censuring nor Hillel International mentioned). DMacks 05:44, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

This article may be informative: Jewish Journal of Los Angeles. 1. The assault occurred just after a Hillel-sponsored event that he had participated in. 2. Hillel International has not commented on the case outside of the limited statement in this article. If you know otherwise, please post. I'll post more soon. 70.230.148.15 16:00, 21 February 2007 (UTC)