Talk:Hydrocodone

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Contents 1 Heresay 2 Uncited Fact 3 Deadly dose 4 when is a stub not a stub? 5 Comparison of oral codeine and oral hydrocodone 6 Vicoprofen 7 overdose sx's 8 Side Effects 9 Vicodin Half Life in Chart 10 What is this character? 11 Water extraction 12 Suggested merge 13 Hydrocondone Extraction 14 When is hydrocodone therapy indicated? 15 Link to buy opiates 16 Hydrocodone

[edit] Heresay

I removed the following block of text.

"Tolerance to this drug can increase very rapidly if abused. Because of this, addicts often overdose from taking handfulls of pills, in pursuit of the high they experienced very early on in their hydrocodone use."

There are two big problems with this. First, tolerance is not dependent on whether a drug is used as directed or used recreationaly. Tolerence will increase with any long term use. Second, claiming that addicts (condescending) often overdose because they do not calculate how many mg's they are consuming is ridicules for a few reasons. 1. it's easy to divide the dosage needed by the size of the pills to reach the correct number of pills. 2. Taking hand fulls of pills is a lethal dose no matter how tolerent a user is. A hand full could easily have 50 pills in it even with the lowest dosage that is 250mg a lethal dose for all but the the most long term user. Who ever added this also failed to cite a source. Because of all this I could not allow it to remain in the article for even a day waiting for a source. Tomorrow I will replace it with sourced accurate information of acetaminophen and hydrocodone overs dose's. Foolishben 07:24, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

You can feel likehaving sex when taking three. --24.143.14.88 09:15, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Uncited Fact

I believe drug-related articles should only contain facts cited to specific, reliable sources. Thus, I removed the reference to pharmacological equivalence in the opening paragraph. I also removed the second (and empty) External Links section. --Impaciente 05:24, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

What is the chemical and international names please ?

In the USA the brand name is "Lortab" and it's distributed (by prescription) in 500mg tablets. I suspect other doses are available but 500mg are the only ones I've seen. Worked wonders for my toothache! Zerbey 20:37, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The original and most common brand name is Vicodin in the US. Also, tylox is the brand name for percocet, not hydrocodone. Someone might want to check the other brand names to see if they're correct.

500mg, that's insane and quite misleading. The pills come in many different combinations of hydrocodone-bitartrate and acetaminophen sometimes upto 10mg and 650mg respectively (Lorcet) [1], and medically speaking it isn't right to add the two numbers together.

I suspect that's the case here (I did doublecheck the bottle, though) so the mistake lies with my pharmacist. I suspect 500mg of pure Hydrocodone would be fatal. Zerbey 21:17, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

here in the US I got some generic from Watson labs (WATSON 387) ... it's 7.5 hydrocodone bitartrate and 750 acetaminophen 208.59.171.97 17:24, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that's correct. The smaller number indicates the dose of opioid, in this case hydrocodone, while the larger number represents the dose of the co-drug, in this case, acetaminophen. Lorcet, Lortab, and Vicodin are brand names, all having the same generic active ingredient, the opioid hydrocodone. For example, a prescription for Lortab 5/500mg tablets would represent pills containing 5mg of hydrocodone and 500mg of acetaminophen each. A similar methodology is followed for dosing of other opioid compound drugs, such as Percocet (oxycodone/APAP), which is available in 5/325mg, 10/325mg, and other formulations.

The drug's salt (e.g., bitartrate, hydrochloride, etc.) is listed for the sake of completeness, but should have little or no impact on the consumer of the medication. It primarily represents the true form of the compound as it has been synthesized for consumption and relates to the drug's in vivo solubility and bioavailability.

What are schedules ?

The schedules refer to the class of "controlled" substance, I believe.

It's schedule II in the US just like all strong opiods

I think it's schedule III in small doses when mixed with acetaminophen? checking 208.59.171.97 17:24, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

NO! proproxyphene, hydrocodone and codeine are schedule III. fentanyl, oxycodone, hydromorphone, oxymorphone, morphine, and the like are schedule II.

hydrocodone is a schedule II substance when packaged alone. However, it is schedule III when combined with another analgesic such as APAP(paracetamol) or acetyl salicylic acid (aspirin).Wcbradley 17:14, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Right. The word "schedule" refers to the US Controlled Substance Act, a policy that calls for careful regulation of drugs with potential abuse. Schedule I drugs are those with no known medicinal value, and includes "street" drugs such as heroin, GHB, Ecstasy, LSD, and others. Schedule II refers to drugs with high abuse potential but with a known medicinal value. Schedule II drugs include the potent, but addictive, opioids such as fentanyl (Duragesic, Actiq), hydromorphone (Dilaudid), morphine (Avinza, MS Contin), oxycodone (OxyContin, Percocet, Percodan); cocaine; methylphenidate (Ritalin); and others. Schedule III drugs are those with less abuse potential than those in Schedules I and II, but can still lead to dependence in spite of their medicinal value. Drugs in Schedule III include anabolic steroids, ketamine, paregoric (a opium-derived camphorated tincture), and others. The pattern continues in Schedules IV and V.

[edit] Deadly dose

Anybody knows what is the deadly dose of Vicodin? 500mg might be a deadly dose.

Vicodin is paired with acetaminophen to maximize the results of the Hydrocodone-Bitartrate, The Vicodin is sold in many ratios, http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/hydrocod.htm. My prescription for example said 500mg Vicodin - but that is rather 500mg of acetaminophren and 5mg of hydrocodone. It is slightly misleading. Undoubtably your heart would stop and you would probalby be very sick to your stomach before that would happen. The acetaminophen is toxic when combined with alcohol in your liver. Though I don't really know why. I wouldn't mind this article being converted to a stub, it doesn't contain much information on the types, ratios, or even that they always contain acetaminophren.--x1987x 20:52, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

No pharmacist would label your prescription as 500mg hydrocodone. anyone who thinks that hydrocodone comes in such high doses does not know how to read a pill bottle. generic and brand name hydrocodone preparations alike ALWAYS say, for example "HYDROCODONE/APAP 5/500". this refers to there being 5 milligrams of hydrocodone and 500 milligrams of acetaminophen/paracetamol. There are many other dosages such as 5/325, 7.5/500, 7.5/650, 7.5/325, 10/650, 10/500, and 10/325. I have also heard of, but never encountered 2.5/325 tablets.Wcbradley 17:20, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your suggestion regarding [[: regarding [[:{{{1}}}]]]]! When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make whatever changes you feel are needed. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the Edit this page link at the top. You don't even need to log in! (Although there are some reasons why you might like to…) The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. JFW | T@lk 23:46, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Hyrdrocodone (Lortab; Lorcet) comes in 5, 7.5 and 10 mg oral dosages. The 500 mg that you mention is the amount of acetamenophen in combination with the hydrocodone. A 500 mg dose of Lortab would, I'm sure, be deadly to anyone, even the most tolerant addict. Generally the dosages are 5mg/500 mg; 7.5mg/500 mg or 10mg/500 mg in Lortab. The difference with Lorcet is that the mg of acetaminophen is higher, generally 650 mg or 1000 mg. I have been taking Lortab 7.5 for just over 3 years for a chronic pain condition (4 doses per day). At times, I have had to take 2 pills instead of 1, which meant I had to skip a dose later that day or the next. I am tolerant to the medication now so do not get the euphoric effect, even if I take 2 at a time. However, I am quite certain that if I took 66 2/3 7.5 mg pills (the equivilant of 500 mg), I would die.

My only source for this information is my personal experience and what I read on the prescription bottles and the paperwork that comes with my prescriptions. I used to used CVS pharmacy, but now use Fred's. Both places are very good about answering questions about the medications I have to take - believe me, I've annoyed the heck out of the pharmacists - I have OCD and I ask millions of questions about everything.

There is no single "deadly dose" which can fit everyone; someone who takes a very high daily dosage to deal with high pain levels would be much harder to kill with hydrocodone than somebody who is totally intolerant. It is quite safe to say that 500mg of hydrocodone would be fatal for anyone, though. Your lungs would shut down quickly. Also, please sign your comments with four tildes (~). Rarr 04:35, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] when is a stub not a stub?

this now contains a fair amount of information. should the stub marker be removed?tej 02:16, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

-- this article is no longer marked as a stub. --69.38.90.93 01:55, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comparison of oral codeine and oral hydrocodone

The article currently states that : "The typical therapeutic dose of 5 mg to 10 mg is pharmacologically equivalent to 200 to 400 mg of oral codeine." This is total nonsense. The general rule of thumb is that hydrocodone is 6 times more potent than codeine on a per milligram basis, when taken orally. While some people would argue that 8 times more potent is closer to the mark, there is absolutely no way that hydrocodone is 40 times more potent.

Right you are. For example, a Norco 5/325 (5 mg hydrocodone) is pretty much equivilant to a Tylenol # 3 (30 mg codeine). Changed article to reflect this.Osmodiar 18:03, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Vicoprofen

It may be worth noting that hydrocodone (I don't know how much; probably the typical therapeutic dose) is paired with 200 mg of ibuprofen under the name "Vicoprofen."

[edit] overdose sx's

Don't forget respritory depression. Shoot, never mind.

Mikereichold 08:55, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Side Effects

Does any one know if 7.5/750 dosage every six hours is harmful to your liver if you already have chirrosis? -Unsigned1

It is very likely that the higher doses of Hydrocodone (such as the 7.5/750 dosage you mentioned) are harmful, even with occasional use, to your liver if it is already compromised. Because the liver is your bodies filter, and because Cirrhosis of the liver means scar tissue has compromised your bodies filter, you should consult a physician and consider taking another pain medication that does not contain Hydrocodone or Acetaminophen.

I agree, but the logic here needs to be clarified. Acetaminophen (paracetamol) is an effective antipyretic drug found in both over-the-counter and prescription drugs. The generally agreed upon maximum dose of acetaminophen is 4 grams in those with normal liver function. Unfortunately, clearance of acetaminophen involves a toxic metabolite, NAPQI, that can cause significant damage to the liver if it is allowed to accumulate. Any substance (e.g., alcohol) or condition (e.g., cirrhosis) that compromises hepatic function should prompt you to consult your physician before continuing to ingest large amounts of any drug that are metabolized by the liver. In patients with severe liver dysfunction, drugs that are normally cleared by the liver may need to be dose-adjusted downward to parallel the decrease in liver function. In some cases, these drugs must be avoided entirely, but that decision should be left to the prescribing physician.

Normaly when a person has liver damage, doctors prescribe Morphine, Oxycodone or some kind of non-Acetaminophen opiod; or a supostiory which bypasses the liver.

- See notes below, but most opioids (just like acetaminophen) are metabolized by the liver. This means that the liver's overall function is important when considering what dose is appropriate; usually, the poorer the liver function, the lower the daily maximum dose.

- Also, suppositories containing medications, as a general rule, DO NOT bypass the liver. Unless they are specifically designed to act locally within the large bowel, drugs contained within the suppository will diffuse across the colonic wall, into the venous system, and travel to the liver via the portal vein. A prime example is acetaminophen, often given as a suppository (per rectum, or "PR") to infants or young children who are unable to take medication by mouth. This would be an exercise in futility if the medicine just sat there in the large intestine and did nothing, but it doesn't. It diffuses into the venous circulation, travels to the liver, and eventually works its way around the body to effect its action on prostaglandin synthesis.

Hydrocodone itself does not interact with your liver - it bonds with and is disposed of by opioid receivers throughout your body. 2250mg or 2.25g of acetaminophen is well within safe limits even for somebody with cirrhosis of the liver, though you may want to talk to your doctor about giving you a light dose of Oxycontin instead of any Hydrocodone preparation - oxy is more potent, but it is also time release. You'll save time - only need one or two pills a day - and money, since you don't take as many oxys. -Unsigned2

Your statement above is wrong. Hydrocodone acts on mu-opioid receptors in the brain, spinal cord, and gut, but it is almost completely metabolized by the liver. To say that it does not interact with the liver, then, would be incorrect. - Unsigned3

OxyContin also has no acetaminophen or any other active chemical besides oxycodone, meaning it's perfectly safe for even the most booze-afflicted liver. 7.5 is not even a high dose of hydrocodone, so I have no idea what the above responders are talking about. I'm not sure just how old this question is, since it's also unsigned, but I hope I'm doing some good for whoever sees this. Rarr 22:36, 24 April 2006 (UTC)*

Again, please check your facts, because what the above user said is wrong. I am a physician and wanted to point out that oxycodone, like many opioids, is metabolized extensively by the cytochrome P450 system in the liver. While the drug acts on mu-opioid receptors in the CNS and gut, it is metabolized by the liver and later excreted. If the liver becomes diseased or damaged, as in cirrhosis, the organ is less able to produce the necessary enzymes to metabolize the drug to an inactive, excretable form. In cases of end-stage liver disease, any drug metabolized by the liver should be evaluated for dose-adjustment; that is, the dose should be decreased to a level commensurate with the decrease in hepatic function in an effort to prevent build-up of the drug (or its active metabolite) to dangerous or even toxic levels.

To say that oxycodone is "perfectly safe for even the most booze-afflicted liver" is absolutely false. Refer to Clinical Pharmacology or another drug database to confirm that metabolism occurs in the liver. -Unsigned3

• If you're hoping to do some good for whoever sees this and help the page, thanks, but please recheck some of your facts and "cite resources".I listed a few below. (Volcano1776 19:45, 21 July 2006 (UTC))

http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=269816&highlight=percocet [url]http://www.ohsu.edu/ahec/pain/part2sect3.pdf[/url] http://www.drugtalk.com/hydrocodone/?p=16 http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/409025_6 http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=192457&highlight=vicodin http://www.denisonia.com/policeDept/heroin.asp http://www.rxmed.com/b.main/b2.pharmaceutical/b2.1.monographs/CPS-%20Monographs/CPS-%20(General%20Monographs-%20H)/HYCODAN.html http://www.netwellness.org/question.cfm/25961.h

(Volcano1776 19:45, 21 July 2006 (UTC))

I'd like to clarify for the record that most of the chunk of text above my signature isn't mine; just the last paragraph. The rest was contributed by several people who didn't sign, so I've denoted that. All of the erroneous facts were in those people's contributions. Sorry for the misunderstanding, and your references are still quite valid. Rarr 08:49, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vicodin Half Life in Chart

Is the 408 hours really 4-8 hours (4 to 8 hours)?

yes

How long is Vicodin (hydrocodone) detectable by urine or blood testing?

In urine testing, approx. 48 hours.

I don't understand much about medication, but the other night a friend of mine gave me a Lortab. She told me it was Tylenol. I believed it because I was drunk. The next day, I woke up with hives & asked what she gave me. I am still breaking out with hives & itching because I am allergic to Hydrocodone. How long will it stay in my system so I know when to expect the hives to go away? 68.203.133.37 06:26, 2 April 2007 (UTC)CF

The hydrocodone will flush from your system by the end of tomorrow, but you will probably stop breaking out by the end of today, since most of it will be in your kidneys by then. Rarr 10:21, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What is this character?

From the article:

...taking 10�15 grams of acetaminophen...

My browser isn't showing the character between the 10 and 15 correctly, so what's it supposed to be? Can we find a different character? – perhaps? Cburnett 17:59, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

It didn't work my browser either, so I just replaced it. --Ed (Edgar181) 18:11, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Water extraction

What is this "hot water/cold water" extraction process mentioned in the article? Roland Deschain

• Maybe one of us will add to that. But not right now.--Kalmia 06:15, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Suggested merge

I'm suggesting that Vicodin be merged into this article. Most (possibly all) other brand-name medications I've looked up here have redirected to their generic name (this may be different for meds that aren't available generically yet—I haven't checked). The vicodin article contains mostly information that is redundant to this one (contraindications, side effects, overdose, use during pregnancy, etc.) There is enough unique info or expanded explanations that someone may think are more informative, however, that I do not feel comfortable doing a simple redirect from there to here. If you support, oppose, or simply want to comment on this proposition, please feel free to do so here. --Icarus 14:10, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

• Yes, it used to be a redirect. What was the reason for the change? --Kalmia 03:56, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
• Def merge it. --Ncosmob 17:44, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
• Percocet goes to Oxycodone. Merge --Drierp 19:41, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
• The only reason not to merge it might be the pop culture refrences at the end. I think it should be merged anyways. --Clperez390 20:08, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
• Agreed. Merge gracefully and we'll have a meatier article here. Rarr 06:34, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
• Agreed. Vicodin is a brand name for Hydrocodone/APAP Yendor 16:27, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
• Agreed. I would put all forms of generic Hydrocode (short acting) in a single article and then work to create side articles if needed. --Chrispounds 11:35, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
• Suggest redirect. I see no useful information in the Vicodin article that is not already contained in this article. Also, there is no need to have a seperate article for Vicodin since it is mentioned here in the text and in a nifty chart :) Markovich292 01:18, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, someone copied the Vicodin pop culture references to here a while ago, changes are still being made to both pages, and there seems to be consensus, so I'm adding the "merge in progress" template there till the merge is finished. --Galaxiaad 18:21, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

• Disagree No to merging. As with Adderall, Dexedrine, and Benzedrine for amphetamine (same drugs) and Desoxyn for methamphetamine, this is no different.

I agree wholeheartedly. This is no different. Those should be, too. However, this is not the place to suggest that Adderall, Dexedrine, Benzedrine and emphetamine be merged, or Dexosyn and methamphetamine be merged. Those suggestions should be made on their pages. The guidelines on this sort of thing should be followed. 69.181.120.218 06:21, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Instead of merging I suggest an expansion of the "Vicodin" article, including notes about the APAP content in Vicodin formulations and the problems APAP causes in recreational use. -- John Cho 04:38, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Vicodin should be merged with this article - just because Adderall et all is not part of amphetamine doesn't mean there is any reason to make the same choice here. Adderall and Dexedrine contain nearly duplicate information as that of amphetamine - there is a section in each with information relevant to the brand that could be taken and added to amphetamine, but most of the rest is very similar. Benzedrine is almost entirely cultural references, again easy to merge. We should do the right thing here and provide an example to the other articles. Rarr 07:58, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I see the merit in having separate articles for culturally significant drugs (is Benzedrine even prescribed anymore? Either way I think someone searching for it on Wikipedia would probably not be primarily looking for chemical/pharmacological information, and if they were they could click through to amphetamine) but that would create problems in deciding what's culturally significant. That combined with the redundancy of the articles and the naming guideline for drug-related articles make me think it's still best to merge. --Galaxiaad 13:48, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Uh, the Adderall, Dexedrine, and Benzedrine articles for amphetamine all document the differences between the certain forms of amphetamine (Adderall being racemic dextro/laevo, Dexedrine being dextro-amphetamine racemate, and Benzedrine being dextrolaevo-ampphetamine.) This is similar to Vicodin in that it is hydrocodone in an APAP package to make it Schedule III under the DEA. As I stated, document these differences in the Vicodin article instead of merging. --John Cho 21:04, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

It isn't similar. Vicodin is hydrocodone HCI (all hydrocodone preparations that are commercially available are hydrocodone HCI, I believe) combined with acetaminophen/APAP. The two drugs don't have any specific interactions and the DEA's arbitrary scheduling has nothing to do with the inclusion of acetaminophen. Other pills containing hydrocodone may be pure hydrocodone or hydrocodone and ibuprofen. Less than 15mg hydrocodone per pill is Schedule III, 15+ is Schedule II - the DEA doesn't care whether there is acetaminophen there or not. You could argue that because Adderall, Dexedrine, and Benzedrine are all different amphetamine forms, they deserve their own article. Fair enough I suppose, they are measureably different. Vicodin is just a brand name for hydrocodone, which has no such chemical diversity. Every bit of information in Vicodin could easily be placed into Hydrocodone without distracting the focus of the article. Rarr 22:12, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Vicodin contains hydrocodone bitartrate, not the hydrochloride salt. But anyway, like I stated, the article can be improved upon. --John Cho 23:51, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think racemic is the same thing as dextro/levo, so Adderall and Benzedrine are exactly the same drug (though probably different salts). (With regard to the APAP, as far as I can tell it's just added to discourage abuse (and therefore relevant to its scheduling), as who really needs APAP when they've got a narcotic analgesic? Heh. But I don't feel like that's really relevant to this merge discussion.)

Let me try to better articulate why I think these articles (and those of the forms of amphetamine) should be merged. For one, Vicodin is not the only hydrocodone/APAP preparation. Lorcet and Lortab are two other common ones. Hydrocodone is also available combined with aspirin, ibuprofen, chlorpheniramine, phenyltoloxamine, homatropine, guaifenesin, phenylephrine, etc., etc. (source: http://www.drugs.com/alpha/h5.html and subpages) (and as far as I can tell there's no hydrocodone-only preparation, at least in the U.S. and Canada). It would be unwieldy and highly redundant to have articles for each commercially available combination of drugs. People can always look up the drugs individually. Different combinations/isomers/salts may be different in effect, but so are immediate release and extended release forms of the same drug (not just in how long the effect lasts, either— bupropion extended release was created to reduce the incidence of seizures from ingesting so much at once), and they're always in the same article (furthermore, Vicodin is available with various amounts and ratios of hydrocodone and APAP, each of which will clearly have a different effect, but a page for each would be ridiculous). We can redirect the names of each form to the INN's page and detail the differences there. I really strongly feel this is the only consistent, sane way to have prescription drug articles. --Galaxiaad 01:08, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

You are wrong. Adderall is d/l-amphetamine racemic while Benzedrine is dl-amphetamine (a racemic racemate.) They all are different and (especially the difference between racemic amphetamine and dextro-amphetamine) each article gives the specifics for their differences. --John Cho 01:19, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

i'd like a merge please as it's a brand—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.189.67.13 (talk • contribs).

I don't think so. Vicodin is a mixture of two base drugs, so we can't merge Vicodin with this one as we have to merge Vicodin with the article for Acetaminophen as well, and think about those drugs that are combination of 3 or more chemiclas, then we have to "tri"-plicate or "more"-plicate their info into the articles of their components but we won't as we will avoid this whole "plicate" process with just one article. Therefore we have to keep Vicodin on its own. Any drug combination has to have its own page, because its pharmacology although similar is still different from the one of the drugs the drug combination is made from and the purpose of the article is to explain why. -- Boris 12:51, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

By that argument, we'd need to create Lortab (which is currently just a redirect to this article) as well, and every other brand name of every drug combination. It's sufficient to mention that hydrocodone is often combined with acetaminophen as Vicodin and Lortab, rather than maintaining separate, redundant articles. Hydrocodone is the main active ingredient and so it takes precedence. Rarr 07:40, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

This Topic should be merged since the actual substance is called Hydrocodone, and as stated earlier Vicoden is a trade name used by a praticular manufacturer.

While I generally would be in favor of this... due to television shows like House and popular knowledge place Vicodin as a known brand name, with it's own unique trivia and information about appearances in popular culture and otherwise. Other brand names that have become common have their own supplementary articles, like Tylenol and Excedrin... while Vicodin might not enjoy the incredible recognition of Tylenol, it is still recognized as it's brand than "hydrocodone" - David DIBattiste 13:12, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

If we kept separate pages for every well-known drug brand, we would have a lot of needless clutter. Xanax and Valium are well-known too, but they link to alprazolam and diazepam, their active ingredients. The same policy should apply here. Rarr 05:03, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Xanad and Valium *are* alprazolam and diazepam. Vicodin is not hydrocodone. Hydrocodone is the strongest active ingredient but it is not the only one. Additionally, benzodiazepines are relaxants, sedatives, and anticonvulsants, not painkillers, and as such are not mixed with paracetamol/acetaminophen/apap. Additionally, the results of abusing them are less prominent. In the United States, hydrocodone alone is Schedule II, diazepam alone is Schedule IV. When you add the apap to hydrocodone and make the combo that is Vicodin, it becomes Schedule III. I realize that the Vicodin article is somewhat less than spectacular and not so good as the hydrocodone article itself, though personally I believe the best course would be expansion of the Vicodin article, as they are different. David DIBattiste 01:14, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm afraid you're mistaken on several points. Benzodiazepines are very commonly abused (just look at the many users of, say, Valium in the past few decades), and while like any drug you can use them responsibly, it's insulting to say that the results of abusing them are 'less prominent'. The DEA scheduling system doesn't only look at abuse potential; benzos are schedule IV because they are used very commonly as, say, anti-anxiety medicines. The DEA system is sometimes influenced by politics as well; why else would marijuana be schedule I? Hydrocodone in doses 15mg or less is Schedule III; the acetaminophen has NOTHING to do with the scheduling of the drug. This is a very common misconception but it is simply false. The main ingredient in Vicodin is hydrocodone; it's already mentioned in this article many times that most hydrocodone preparations contain acetaminophen, ibuprofen, or other common painkillers. People can go to those articles all they want for information on them. In fact, it seems to me that our article already mentions really important information about the risks of acetaminophen overdose; possibly the point you were making when you mentioned the schedules? Lortab is the same mix of hydrocodone and acetaminophen, just in slightly different proportions. Do you want to make a separate article for every brand name and load them full of almost-identical information copied from this article? Vicodin does not have so much more name recognition than Lortab, and yet you want to treat it like it's special. Rarr 04:21, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

I didn't mean to say they were not abused, I know that they are. I meant to say they are substantially less lethal than narcotics, and less physically addictive. Secondly, of course the scheduling system is influenced by politics, how could it not be - it's run by a government agency. Schedule I is for substances found to have potential reason for abuse that have no legally accepted medical use. Schedules below have accepted use, but are still abuseable as defined by law, which falls under the jurisdiction of politics. However, I do agree that hydrocodone, while not the only active ingredient, is the main ingredient in Vicodin and it's effects obviously outweigh acetaminophen or ibuprofen, else everyone would be taking Tylenol and Motrin for all forms of pain. Additionally... you're right. There is no equivalent page for Percocet (oxycodone/apap) which, while with oxycodone instead of hydrocodone, is in many ways the same as this. As such, I no longer dispute the merge/redirect. David DiBattiste 20:41, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Another un-attributable bit of trivia to vote keeping Vicodin separate: Supposedly, the original trade name was created by someone with the knowledge that the sythesized version was 6 times more powerful than the "natural" codeine it was replacing, thus VI (6) - codin (codeine). Even though the drug is a combination of hydrocodone and acetaminophen, the trade name came from the opiate side only. Maybe the trade name has enough additional lore behind it to make for an article with a reference rather than merging. Balanced against this is whatever obligation one might imaginably have to ensure that people who search for Vicodin don't get just the fanciful part (TV shows, movie stars, naming trivia) and overlook the important health information contained in the link page to hydrocodone.12.76.172.10 09:20, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

One bit of trivia is not enough to justify an entire article. That could be fit into the hydrocodone article, if you can find a source. I doubt that it's true, though; hydrocodone is more than six times as powerful as codeine. Rarr 11:33, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hydrocondone Extraction

I noticed that thjis article talks about acrticing acempethine from hydrocondone I think that they should add how to extract it in the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.168.211.173 (talk • contribs).

unless wikipedia would have a problem with that, i would be glad to add it —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wcbradley (talk • contribs).

I think it's fine in terms of legal liability to explain it, but it needs to be in a tone appropriate for an encyclopedia, and shouldn't take up more of the article than its notability merits. Personally I think it isn't notable enough to write in this article, when there is already a link in that part of the article to cold water extraction which explains the process. In general Wikipedia doesn't include how-tos (see Wikipedia:What_wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_an_indiscriminate_collection_of_information), and though I think the article on CWE is OK because it documents something that people do and isn't in a "here's how to do this at home, kids!" tone, I don't really think it should be in the article about hydrocodone. Other opinions? --Galaxiaad 23:20, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. We already have an article on cold water extraction, and there's enough redundancy surrounding this article that more would be bad for the article. Rarr 00:47, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] When is hydrocodone therapy indicated?

I couldn't find out from the article how it's detemined that the patient's pain needs more than Ultram or Tylenol #3 but less than Percocet. Is there a rule of thumb? For what kind of pain is hydrocodone indicated? DAC1956 17:06, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Just based on memory, it's usually indicated for moderate to severe pain, especially if the pain is not chronic; oxycodone is usually the choice for severe chronic pain. I could probably find a source if we needed it for the article. Rarr 08:52, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Link to buy opiates

Someone posted a link claiming to lead to a site where people can buy illegal opioids (I'm not sure if the link actually does that, since I didn't click on it). I'm not sure how to remove it, since it doesn't seem to appear on the Edit Article page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 169.229.98.193 (talk) 11:37, 17 December 2006 (UTC).

Thanks for helping out with Wikipedia! But I think you must either be viewing a cached version of the page (we do get spam from less-than-legit online pharmacies, but it is usually reverted quickly-- just hit reload in your browser to load the newest version of the page) or you're talking about "Links to external chemical sources". It's a Wikipedia page similar to Wikipedia:Book sources, and can be found at Wikipedia:Chemical sources. (You couldn't find a link because a Wikipedia template is used to put it on the page.) I'm not entirely clear on what the page is for, but it seems to have links to sites with information on chemicals and links to supply houses that sell them. It's not meant for regular people (non-chemists) to buy drugs without a prescription, and I assure you it would be impossible for an average Joe to buy such a chemical from a chemical supply house (barring fraud, but I digress). I hope this helps, and I apologize if it sounded condescending. That wasn't my intention. --Galaxiaad 15:45, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hydrocodone

This drug is not available in pure form. You can get it with tylenol or aspirin or antihistamines, but not all by itself. Why?

This is codienes weaker brother.

Oxycode is superior.

69.121.68.125 12:59, 4 April 2007 (UTC)