Talk:Instrument flight rules

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I deleted - "In some airspaces, usually busy ones controlled by ATC, flights must be flown according to IFR whatever weather conditions exist." This is certainly not true in the United States and I don't believe it's true anyplace else. The only airspace that for IFR only is class A, and class A does not exist in "busy airspaces" but at high altitudes.

Class B, C, and D airspaces do exist in "busy airspaces" but you may fly VFR in all of them. A requirement to remain in contact with ATC or even to obtain explicit clearances is *not* the same as flying IFR. VFR pilots may fly in the busiest airpspaces, though not above 14,000 feet MSL (except over mountainous terrain).

It gets complicated, but the statement I deleted was misleading.

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Thanks for making that change. BTW, in the U.S. you can be VFR anywhere below 18,000 msl, not 14,000. Perhaps you were thinking of the fact that Class E airspace starts at 14,500, in addition to what's charted.

Class A airspace only appearing above 18,000' is specific to the US, it's not a property of the airspace classification itself. There are areas in Europe where class A airspace appears at low altitudes (for instance, around Amsterdam Schiphol airport, class A starts as low as 1500' MSL). Rpvdk 08:02, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] new rewrite

thanks for the rewrite, it's much better. but, a minor quibble: Pilots do not depend 100% on ATC for separation as you've defined it. That is, if I lose all contact with ATC while enroute I can still safely maintain terrain separation by using charted airways and terminal procedures. ATC is really only responsible for terrain separation when you're off-airway (being vectored).

That's a good clarification, though it's worth noting that you can maintain your own terrain separation off airway as well, and ATC can use its MVA when you're on an airway as well as off. David 12:33, 2005 May 4 (UTC)

[edit] navaids

I think navaids should be mentioned, if not a whole section on them. i.e. vor's, vor airways / intersections, dme, gps, any old-ass rnav like loran, etc. "headings" and "altitudes" are a bit vague. --Kvuo 02:18, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] SEIFR (Single-Engine IFR)

Would be useful to add a reference to the N America/Europe differences here. As I understand it (and I'm not 100% certain so am not editing the article to include this), public-transport IFR operations with a single-engine aircraft (e.g. Cessna Caravan) are legal and common in North America, but remain prohibited (despite much industry lobbying) in Europe. If someone can confirm this, could this be added to the article? Thanks. Ecozeppelin 16:22, 26 April 2006 (UTC)