Talk:Leicester City F.C.

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	Leicester City F.C. is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article Milestones below to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive.
Article Milestones Date Process Result November 28, 2006 Good article nominee Not listed February 12, 2007 Peer review Reviewed February 12, 2007 Featured article candidate Not promoted February 21, 2007 Peer review Reviewed Current Status: Former featured article candidate

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't leicester 1-0 down to swindon at half time, and went to 3-0 down in the second half? Guinness 23:25, August 11, 2005 (UTC)

Feel free to add more categories to the records sections people. I only added the first few as a suggestion and to prompt more edits. Mostly, I don't have information to hand myself, but it's def. worth putting here. Guinness 18:21, August 14, 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 Dennis Wise 2 Administration 3 Current Records 4 squad template 5 aggreggate 6 Cleanup results list 7 Advice for improvemnt to FA 8 GA candidacy 9 Chairman

[edit] Dennis Wise

Should Dennis Wise be included in the list of "Famous Former Players"? There is no doubt that he is a former player, but is he 'famous' enough to be included. Having played internationally for england 21 times (according to his article), I would argue strongly that the answer is "yes." Although his departure from the club and threat to sue afterwards was acrimonious and he is not loved by supporters of the club, this does not change the fact that he is a "Famous Former Player" I further propose (to prevent any future disputes), that we accept any player who has played for Leicester City and made a full appearance for his national site as a "Famous Former Player" (not necessarily to the exclusion of others). Guinness 16:13, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Although he is famous I don't think he famous for being a Leicester player. Putting him in is just a cop out for people making the list who don't really know that much. Matt Elliott, Steve Guppy, Gerry Taggart, Kasey Keller, Ian Walker, Tony Cottee to name a few all failed to be listed ahead of Wise in this list.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jimmmmmmmmm (talk • contribs) .

If the guideline for inclusion is to be "Famous for being a Leicester player," then Claridge, Collymore, Cottee, Ferdinand, Kaamark, Mancini, and Newell could all go, and arguably others too. Overall, I think putting it that way is too subjective (how do you know that they are specifically famous as Leicester players, and not just as players who have been at Leicester). I think it would better be phrased as "Famous players, who have played for Leicester." Whilst the 'famous players' part is still subjective, it is easier to define (e.g. by international appearance as above). Guinness 17:09, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Still shoudn't be included. He's was a digrace and should never be mentioned in the same breath as the club again.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jimmmmmmmmm (talk • contribs) .

The incident leading to his departure and the fan's view of him may be worth mentioning in either the "History" section, or in the Dennis Wise article itself, but I don't believe that he should be excluded from the list, just because he is disliked by supporters of the club. Wikipedia is neutral to POV. Guinness 15:41, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Fine put Wise in but then include anyone else who ever breifly appeared in a Leicester shirt and played for their country. Including Alan Smith (ex Arsenal), Tim Flowers, Matt Jones, Danny Coyne, Stefen Fruend etc. There are much more famous Leicester players then Dennis Wise.

Jimmmmmmmmmmm

Hmm, I see your point, it's going to get big, isn't it. I was going to suggest that we just create a category for it, but it seems that there is in fact one already (here). How about we just list players who started their career at LCFC on the main article, and let the category take care of the rest. Guinness 10:25, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Yeah I think this should just be notable Leicester player. So not just player that began here but successfull ones to like the League cup winners and Zagoakis etc. And then let the category take care of Wise etc. Jimmmmmmmmm 1-11-05 14:45

Right then, I've updated the list and added the category link. I've removed most of the names as I believe it is best to avoid quantity and specifically avoid duplicating the category list. Just keep the real cream of the crop on the list. I'm still not 100% happy that we've got clear criteria for adding people to the list, but at least it's a starting point. Guinness 19:12, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Thought I should add Zagorakis as he did spend 3-4 years at the club and is a European Championship winning captain with Greece. Makes him notable I think.

Jimmmmmmmmm 14:40 28 April 2006

"but due to the loss of Premiership television money, the cost of constructing their new stadium and Dennis Wise's suing of the club after his sacking over an incident that left Callum Davidson with a fractured cheekbone, the club went into administration with debts of £30million."

The Dennis Wise incident certainly wasn't a key factor in Leicester going into administration. I've rephrased this section as it seemed very POV. 82.17.202.62 11:43, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

A simple answer from me.... NO - After what he did to Callum Davidson after losing a game of cards!....

No way

86.17.160.81 17:09, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Administration

This may have been discussed extensively before, but in reference to:

"It was because of Leicester restructuring their debts, which some misguidedly perceived to have given them an unfair advantage over their rivals, that the Football League changed their rules and now penalise teams going into administration with a ten point penalty."

I don't understand what the misguided perception was, it seems to be a POV for a start that the perception was misguided and I'd argue that it's not a misguided perception at all, but a quite correct one, since Leicester City were relegated with a premiership strength side and through going into administration had to surrender far fewer players that a team trying to avoid administration would have had to go under. That argument is surely going over old ground, but I don't understand why it is so obviously misguided that it can be stated as fact? (Don quixote 18:19, 20 April 2006 (UTC))

Well I guess the arugment agianst this point would be that administration brings its own problems and uncertainties that the club had to deal with. However, I agree that misguided is a pov term that shouldn't be included in an encyclopedia. Robdurbar 22:13, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Leicester City sold many players when relagated from the premiership. My mind is struggling to go back without looking at facts but Savage went for 2.5 m, Rowett for 2.5 m and Piper for 3 m. There were many other players. We were also not allowed to bring in players.

I think the latest edit throws the baby out with the bathwater. It removes the contentious 'misguidedly' (which I agree is POV), but also removes the explanation of why the League was unhappy, so readers who do not already know the story need to read between the lines, which is unhelpful. A re-edit to: "It was because of Leicester restructuring their debts, which some perceived to have given them an unfair advantage over their rivals, that the Football League…etc…" might be a happy medium. This would acknowledge there was an argument (not, I feel, as simple as Don Quixote suggests, but this ain't the place) without taking sides in it. Grubstreet 20:36, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Current Records

Something needs to be done with, either it be scrapped or someone find the details on it. The goals is easy but I have no idea who has made the most appearences and how many this season for example.

Jimmmmmmmmm 14:44 28 April 2006

[edit] squad template

Could somebody who knows about the team make a squad template? Guidelines can be found here SenorKristobbal 09:37, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] aggreggate

Is 'aggreggate' a British slang term? Otherwise is has an extra fourth 'g' and should be 'aggregate'. Same for article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_English_football. I couldn't tell from just doing a Google search as it is spelled with the fourth 'g' a variety of times in relation to football. --darklilac 15:56, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

It's probably just a bad spelling. Somebody with a copy of the Oxford English Dictionary (or who just knows) should confirm the correct spelling. Guinness 11:28, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup results list

The results list looks unstructured and messy, and also has no date information (and scorers / cards / etc... would be a nice addition too). Haven't got time to do this myself right now. Guinness 18:15, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Yep Guinnog, that'll about do it ;) Guinness 13:37, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Advice for improvemnt to FA

In addition to my comments on the FAC and as promised to User:Jimmmmmmmmm, here are some more detailed comments and suggestions:

• Opening sentence of history - is Fosse road part of the Fosse Way? If so that could be mentioned.
• Singular / plural - the club is sometimes referred to in the plural and sometimes the singular, this should be consistent throughout. In a sporting context, the plural is more common in British English.
• Some managers (Lee, McGhee, Taylor) are mentioned in the text despite having brief tenures which do not appear to have had a significant impact in a historical context.
• The manager list seems overly long to be included in the main article, consider splitting it off. A team such as West Ham who have had few managers could get away with having the full list, but this one takes more than a full screen length on 1024x768.
• Things which require citations:
  • Giles being one of the club's most successful managers, and McLintock as one of the worst
  • City's most famous home-grown player, Gary Lineker, not obvious to a non-football fan, plus some would argue Peter Shilton.
  • McGhee left the club unexpectedly
  • coupled with some poor dealings in the transfer market
  • In reaction to Leicester's restructuring of their debts, the Football League changed their rules requires evidence that this was because of Leicester specifically.
  • This change was unpopular, and dropped at the end of the season
  • this led manager Martin O'Neill to say he used to "lead new signings out backwards"
• No section about supporters or rivalries? Rivalries are mentioned in the lead but not elsewhere. Oldelpaso 21:26, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Well I will start addressing what needs to be done but not everything is a problem. Giles lead us to 5 of our 8 cup finals, so citation not needed. We've only won 3 cups and he won one, plus lead us to two FA Cup Finals, and lead us to forth in the table. All this is in the reference website by the way.

Lee was manager when were close to getting relegated to the 3rd division so his role in saving us was important to our history. McGhee's section is small and just bridges the gap from Little to O'Niell. Taylor ruined all O'Niell work and pretty much lead us to where administration with over spending on bad players, of which I'll try and find a reference as you've asked.

Fosse Road isn't part of the Fosse Way it's just named after it so thats fine.

I'll try and do something with the list of managers but would be a shame to lose the alltime record.

Lineker/Shilton, you right needs addressing.

As for the football league administration there should be BBC story on that I'll look.

Rivalries I'll get on it, and the O'Niell quote I know he said just a matter of finding it.

Jimmmmmmmmm 13:44, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GA candidacy

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is well written.

   a (prose): b (structure): c (MoS): d (jargon):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (inline citations): c (reliable): d (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   a (fair representation): b (all significant views):

5. It is stable.

   

6. It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.

   a (tagged and captioned): b (lack of images does not in itself exclude GA): c (non-free images have fair use rationales):

7. Overall:

   a Pass/Fail:

Several things need to be done before GA status is approved. None of them are major and should be possible in 5 days. The minor things are jargon, major things are referencing and citation:

• Jargon, only one issue. Not sure what is mean't by administration (see history section) "In October 2002, the club went into administration with debts of £30 million." I'm from NZ and from what I can figure you are talking about receivership I don't know though (hence havn't changed it myself). Whatever it is exactly, simply wiki-link it. That way there is no confusion.
• Inline citation, any statements that can be considered POV need an inline citation. Whether this manager is regarded as the best or worst, or this player best or worst can have a citation. At the moment there is nothing, hence very difficult to verify.Here are some examples:

• "with the help of Arthur Rowley, one of the club's most prolific strikers"
• "Under the management of Matt Gillies, one of the club's most successful managers"
• "Due to City's relegation in at the end of the 1977-78 season and McClintock's subsequent resignation, he is regarded as one of Leicester's worst managers."
• "one of City's most famous home-grown player, Gary Lineker"
• "He is regarded today as easily the best manager of recent years, and one of the most successful in the club's history."

etc etc...

• Weasel words need to be removed, see above.
• Put citations in for all the club records and statistics, nothing wrong with having an inline citation repeated several times if the source is the same for several of them.
• Cite the source for the info on Milan Mandaric's interest in buying the club.
• There are statements in the Colours, Crest and Traditions section that are just external links, make them inline citations. If not the referencing format is inconsistent.
• The external links and references section has links that are identical, this is pointless.
• See Wikipedia:Citing sources for citation style. Add when a link was accessed for example as links can go dead.

Once above things are done change from Hold to GA. - Shudda ^talk 05:15, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I have failed this article, has on hold for over one week. - Shudda ^talk 01:32, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chairman

The Milan Mandaric article claims "As the club are still a PLC, he won't have the title of Chairman for a further 23 days."

Can anybody confirm/clarify this? Is Cahill still legally the chairman? Guinness 12:47, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

• Right, I have confirmed it. MM is NOT chairman (http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,2012104,00.html)

But will be on the 8th of March so don't forget to change it when the change is made.Jimmmmmmmmm 19:25, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

I'll be on my snowboard, somewhere ;) Guinness 02:01, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Lucky you. well seeing as I'm the mug who'll probably have to change it back I'm leaving Milan up there. It's only two weeks away can't see much point changing it to change back. Jimmmmmmmmm 14:38, 26 February 2007 (UTC)