Talk:List of countries and capitals in native languages

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[edit] Criteria for Inclusion

I've noticed lots of discussion (and editing without any discussion) regarding what "countries" should or shouldn't be included. When I originally created this article, my intent was to use Wikipedia's list of countries as the basis for inclusion, which includes de jure and de facto states, dependent territories, disputed states, and special entities such as Hong Kong & Kosovo. I think this is a pretty reasonable criterion. Hope this helps. -- Sampo Torgo ^[talk]

[edit] Native format

What's the point of linking to the same place in both columns? Why shouldnt we use native format for native names? --Jia ng 02:59, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Transcriptions

Why have all the names been transliterated into Roman characters? Would it not be better to place the Romanization next to the native orthography? If so, I will contribute Běijīng, Zhōngguó and Tōkyō, Nippon, which are 北京,中国 and 東京,日本 respectively. Livajo 03:03, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)

北京,中国 is ungrammatical. It's supposed to be 中国北京 (larger place to smaller) and I agree. --Jia ng

Sorry, my Mandarin isn't that great. Thank you for pointing that out. Livajo 03:18, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I agree. Shouldn't this article be called List of countries and capitals in Romanized native languages instead of its current name since the native names are Romanized? DHN 10:17, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Links

If you don't want to click the links, then don't. There is no need to break them. They are all valid links on wikipedia. They are in Roman because this in the English version of wikipedia, plus the list would grow too unwieldy. This is just a simple LIST, not a comprehensive dissertation. By changing order of city, country it is confusing as to which native word means what. It is for clarity.--Sampo Torgo

The links are already present in the first column. Explain what adding them to the second column (many broken) adds to the article. The English Wikipedia often provides translations on foreign topics in their original scripts, so your argument is not valid. If the order of the city and country are changed, then perhaps we can indicate it with an asterik? Not doing so defeats the purpose of native names. --Jia ng 05:13, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I agree with Jiang, but at the same time would like to see both the transliteration and the name in the original alphabet. --Gangulf 06:05, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Order

This is not a list of countries with capitals but of capitals with countries. Please change the order by first naming the country and then naming the capital. ANother suggestion: Add the language name.

[edit] Ok, changed my mind

I thought since scripts were present in the links to country pages, it didn't matter, but it does look good. Check them, though. I'm not too familiar w/ Arabic or Chinese. Asterisks could work, esp. in the format I did now, with columns. -- Sampo Torgo ^[talk]

[edit] Scotland, England, Wales, Northern Ireland

Starting again at this topic. Why don't we add Friesland (has a separatist movement too), Flanders, Wallonia, Quebec, Catalonia, Bavaria, Tyrol, etc, etc, etc. or my own nation, Gelderland, a former duchy which was conquered by Charles V in 1543, loosing its independence inside the Holy Roman Empire. The idea of limiting the list to

Sovereign states (according to the article List of sovereign states
dependent territories and some disputed or occupied areas

is clear. I would suggest not to include parts of countries, since then we can have long debates and disputes. -- Gangulf 20:27, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The four nations of the UK are not parts of a country, but separate nations that form a larger entity. I think they are a special case in this way. From Wikipedia's entry for Wales: "(wales) is one of the four major nations comprising the United Kingdom (UK)." (my emphasis) The UK is a kingdom of four nations. That's how I've always seen it. You do make a good point about including only some disputed areas and not others, but I think these 4 qualify on the basis of their unique situation. Anyone else care tp weigh in? -- Sampo Torgo ^[talk]

I agree that the four are the historical nations forming the UK, but they have less autonomy then most states inside federations. England doesn't even have a legislature. The question is, what is a nation. There are far more nations then states or sovereign countries. Be complete or not. If you add England, Scotland and Wales, ypu should really add the Nations that form Spain, Germany, the Russian federation etc. It just doesn't make sense. -- Gangulf 05:31, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)

...less autonomy then most states inside federations - but a lot more autonomy than several of the places listed. No to Scotland and yes to Svalbard? Crazy. No to Wales and yes to Wallis and Futuna??? Complete madness. Grutness|^hello? 13:48, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] America

America is not an official short name of the country, but it is either the United States of America or the United States. America is the name for the two continents North and South America. When somebody lives in America, he might live in Canada, Chile or the United States. So America should be listed as a short name for the United States. --Gangulf 22:50, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)

This is a list of countries and what they are called by natives of the countries. Just as Congo-Kinshasa and Congo-Brazzaville both claim "Congo" as their name, or PRC and Taiwan both claim "China." The fact that "America" is ambiguous and somewhat inaccurate doesn't change the fact that every American (or should I say United Statesian?) considers the name of the country to be "America."-- Sampo Torgo ^[talk]

23:15, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Talking of country names...

While we're on the subject of country names, why are the U.S.Virgin Islands listed under V? "Virgin Islands" is the name of the entire group, which is divided between the U.S. Virgin Islands and the British Virgin islands - as is stated in the article at Virgin Islands. Please move the U.S. Virgin Islands to their proper place. Grutness|^hello? 13:53, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Languages

Which languages qualify as suitable for inclusion? Official ones only, or are notable non-official languages appropriate here, too? In other words, will anyone mind if I add a couple of the latter? -- Naive cynic 21:33, Dec 4, 2004 (UTC)

When I created this list, I started with just official languages, but I (and others) have added some that are not strictly official, but are spoken by a significant portion of natives. -- Sampo Torgo ^[talk] 01:38, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Break up table?

The table on the page is very long, and it's impossible to edit it easily because of it... Is it possible to break it up into four smaller tables, say A-C, D-K, L-P, Q-Z? I'd like to edit the New Zealand entry, which gives one of the two Maori names for Wellington (the other is Poneke), but risk losing U-Z if I do. Grutness|^hello? 13:43, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Tibet

Like England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales discussed above, Tibet, as an autonomous region of the PRC, do not enjoy the same degree of autonomy as dependencies. Or else we'll have to add all the autonomous regions of the PRC into the list, for fair sake. - Privacy 17:09, Jan 25 2005 (UTC)

TIBET IS A NICE COUNTRY AND U SHOULD ALL RESPECT IT!!!

[edit] Taiwan / Taipei

I don't think Hanyu Pinyin is the official romanisation used by the government of the Republic of China, tho the Taipei city government adopts it officially - Privacy 17:10, Jan 25 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Country

SchmuckyTheCat removed Hong Kong from the list because it is not a country. Should it be added back, or should all non-sovereign States be removed from the list? — Insta ntnood 16:29, Mar 19, 2005 (UTC)

As a de facto independent state, which it is under agreement with China (until at least 2050 or so), I think it certainly should be on the list. I state in the intro that the list include non-sovereign states if they are de facto independent. —-- Sampo Torgo ^[talk]

19:58, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Oh please, it isn't de facto independent now, it's less so under the PRC than it was under the brits. SchmuckyTheCat 21:18, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

It's independent to a certain extent, tho it's not a sovereign States. Except for the right of gaining independence, Hong Kong is in all way a dependent territory, and its autonomy is higher than the time under the Brits. — Insta ntnood 22:46, Mar 24, 2005 (UTC)

Oh, and BTW: Transnistria is not recognized by anyone and is officially part of Moldova. Why is it on this list ? bogdan ʤjuʃkə | ^Talk 10:26, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Palestine

Palestine is not a country, and doesn't have a capital. If it was a country, its capital would be Jerusalem. The de facto administrative centre of the Palestinian Territories is Ramallah. Why does this article say Gaza is the capital of Palestine? Adam 07:34, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Also, why is Macau here when Hong Kong is not? Adam 07:36, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Agree -- Ramallah probably better... AnonMoos 05:38, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

This list includes dependent territories and some disputed areas (i.e.- "Palestine") that are de facto independent. The special administrative regions of the People's Republic of China, namely Hong Kong and Macau, are also included. --DandanxD 04:03, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nauru

Nauru is the only country in the world without an official capital.

What about the Vatican City? No capital is listed for it, either. --Angr/_{tɔk tə mi} 13:45, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

The whole territory of Vatican is a single city. Quite naturally, it also serves as its own capital. Nauru, on the other hand, doesn't have any cities. -- Naive cynic 11:10, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

We should say that eventhough Nauru has no official capital, it has a de facto one and put its name in Nauru's native language. Robin Hood 1212 02:27, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Also, it lists the Nauruan name as English Rmpfu89 23:52, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Where's Andorra?

Andorra is missing. narkisto 22:55, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Added. Chanheigeorge 10:06, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Problems

Some of the Arabic names seem to be truncated to one word (under Brunei the Arabic letters just read "dar", while under the word Iraq is the Arabic word for "republic"). Also, the Israeli government doesn't officially use the form al-Quds as the Arabic name of Jerusalem, but rather the old borrowing from Aramaic اورشليم (see Names of Jerusalem). AnonMoos 14:42, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Arab state name problems

The names of many of the Arab countries were really a mess, with random words taken from the "long form names" of the countries (often just the Arabic word for "republic" or whatever), and not the short-form names at all. I've fixed the errors I've noticed... AnonMoos 16:56, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Iraq

The Kurdish name of Iraq and Baghdad should be added since Kurdish is an official language there.

[edit] Nigeria

I am pretty sure the language list for Nigeria is vandalism: it lists Broken English Rmpfu89 23:53, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Turkmenistan

The mane given here tor Turkmenistan is "Turkmenostan," on Turkmen Wikipedia, it is "Türkmenistan." Assuming that the Turkmen would know the name of their country, I am changing it. -Rmpfu89 18:35, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] explaining my changes to the Chinas, the Congos & the Koreas

Since these all have the same English short name I just went ahead and changed there names to there official long forms to conform to list of countries & List of sovereign states because I think it's better to conform to the other list. Besides it not Official

The Two Koreas do not recognized each other North Korea is not the Official English Short Name of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, which would be Korea. South Korea is not the Official English Short Name of the Republic of Korea, which would be Korea.

The Two Chinas do not recognized each other China is the Official English Short Name of the People's Republic of China Taiwan is not the Official English Short Name of the Republic of China, which would be China.

The Two Congo’s recognized each other but Congo- Kinshasa not the Official English Short Name of the Democratic Republic of the Congo, which would be Congo. Congo-Brazzaville is not the Official English Short Name of the Republic of the Congo, which would be Congo.

So I just went buy the Official English Names to be safe. (I just needed help with formatting & Transliterations

BionicWilliam 07:47, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

I have corrected "Transitional Islamic State of Afghanistan" to "Islamic Republic of Afghanistan" and avoided redirects on the Congos (I also just want a general consence on this issue, should we go buy what the countries say is correct on what the general public goes by)I also think we sould conform with the other two main country list so we are not contradict are selfs. I just want to add the Republic of China Transliteration don't conform with its article BionicWilliam 08:01, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

I have done compromise wich I rhink we can all agree on. North Korea is now (North) Korea South Korea is now (South) Korea As on list of countries People's Republic of China is now (China) People's Republic of Taiwan is now (China) People's Republic of- Taiwan is not the official short name As on list of countries

Congo-Brazzaville is now Congo to conform with native name column Congo-Kinshasa is now Congo to conform with native name column As on list of countries

Since we go by what that says (Header states “The following chart lists the countries of the world (as defined here), along with their capital cities, in English as well as in the country's native language (when different).”) BionicWilliam 19:14, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

I am just trying to keep all the pages in sync with each other, It biased to put them as what it was before since wikipedia tries to not take sides and to display pages that conform with each other. I also belive Reywas92 edit be nuetral as possible. BionicWilliam 18:31, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

South Korea was named "Namhan" while North Korea "Bukhan". These are not official names recognised by the Korean governments(especially North Korea since that name is only used in South Korea). Changed Namham-> Hangook and Bukhan-> Joseon. Also moved South Korea and North Korea to K. --DandanxD 04:06, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] China, Taiwan, etc.

It doesn't have anything to do with bias - it's a matter of linguistics. I carefully researched all six countries to come up with my last edit. I started this article with the intention of listing English exonyms and their corresponding endonyms for nations and their capitals. The exonymic name should be the most familiar one in the English language (i.e. Taiwan, not ROC), not the official English name. These countries were listed one way for the past two years, and were recently changed - I'm simply trying to keep them the way they've been.

What exactly do you see as POV about the way they were/are listed? — Sampo Torgo ^[talk] @ 22:40, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Common short English exonym ; common short endonym

PRC "China" ; "China"
ROC "Taiwan" ; "Taiwan"
North Korea "North Korea" ; "Bukchoson"
South Korea "South Korea" ; "Namhan"
Republic of the Congo "Congo" ; "Congo" or "Congo-Brazza"
DRC "Congo (DRC)" ; "Congo"

— Sampo Torgo ^[talk] @ 22:58, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm just trying to keep this article in sync with the other list. Republic of China and the Koreas need there repected leters since that what the list of countries has it under (The header states that this article is based on the list of countries article witch has been consistant since aleast June 2006.) One question why do we go by the short form and not the offical form of the countries name? since the offical names is what the countries go buy not the short form? The main point is that I just want the main countrie list to be as similar as possible so we don't confuse the public. BionicWilliam 08:44, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

What I mean in the header is that the criteria for inclusion is based on the list of countries, not that the names should be exactly the same.

I created this list to reflect the short, familiar forms of place names in both English and their native languages, to provide insight into what people call their countries on a day-to-day basis, rather than an official one. That's the whole reason I became interested enough in the subject to compile this list in the first place and add it to Wikipedia. — Sampo Torgo ^[talk]

@ 16:34, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

My only beef then is with Republic of China/Taiwan, people might be confused, In that it might be the proposed Republic of Taiwan not de jure Republic of China.

My Proposal: (With just short form part

Country (Exonym)
China (PRC)
China (ROC)

BionicWilliam 00:04, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

The reason I changed the Chinas to what I stated above is Taiwan is not what the Chinese of the Republic of China call there country. China is the proper Exonym. PRC is what the Peoples Republic of China is usally abbreviated to. see the People's Republic of China article BionicWilliam 03:52, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I have changed my propose in that we change the exonoym to to

Country (Exonym)
China (ROC) Taiwan

like we do with the endonym. If nothing else change (if not already) the native to the offical romanization pinyin of the Republic of China: Tongyong Pinyin and Offical Chinese Script of the Republic: Traditional Chinese characters BionicWilliam 02:16, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Usability Regardless of the ultimate solution, there should certainly be entries under both "C" for (Republic of) China or China (Republic of) or Republic of China, and "T" for Taiwan, as the former is its name and the latter is a common colloqualism. Try to keep in mind what other users will search for when they encounter this list. -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 16:25, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Most people in Korea (South) would refer to their country as Hangook; not Namham. Same goes for the citizens of Korea (North)- they wouldn't call their country Bukjoseon. The names Namhan and Bukjoseon are only used for political reasons and even then Koreans would call the North "bukjok" and the South "namjok" --DandanxD 04:21, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Exonym and Endonym redirection problem

Exonym and [[Endonym both redirect to Exonym and endonym we might want to fix that BionicWilliam 00:06, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bloemfontein, South Africa

Granted three capitals seems a bit much for a country, but in the article of South Africa, Bloemfontein is listed as the judicial capital. Shouldn't this be included? Paploo 18:46, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Washington

Shouldn't the exonym be just "Washington" instead of "Washington, DC"? Unless the table is stating the capital is not Washington, Pennsylvania (southwestish of Pittsburgh), for example. JMHO. Paploo 18:46, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Other countries with multiple capitals

Bolivia also has two capitals: La Paz and Sucre. Benin, Tanzania, and Sri Lanka are also countries that list two capitals in their respective articles.

[edit] Endonym of Monaco

Munego is Monégasque, a Ligurian dialect that the people of Monaco (the Monégasque) speak, for Monaco. The official language is French, in which the name of the nation is Monaco. Paploo 19:11, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

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