Talk:List of subcultures

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Contents 1 Merge into List of Lifestyles 2 folk? 3 order of list? 4 Deathrock 5 Systematic bias 6 rude boys 7 Template 8 Hip-Hop lifestyle

[edit] Merge into List of Lifestyles

First off, calling anything a "subculture" promoted the POV that it is somehow less than "the rest of the culture". Yes, originally the term may have been intended to be NPOV of now it has acquired this connotation. In any case, these two pages are very similar and should probabaly be merged anyway. Question is, should the list be sorted alphabetically (like here) or by category (like at List of lifestyles? --STGM 01:53, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I disagree the label of subculture does not have negtive connotations, it does not mean less than the rest of the culture, but simply a smaller category. The same way you have species and sub-species, it simply allows you to differentiate at a more detailed level. And the difference between lifestyle and subculture is HUGE! A lifestyle is a way that a person chooses to live their life. Yes many people may choose the same lifestyle but it is based on the individual choices of that person. A sub-culture, by virtue of being a culture, requires interaction between members who identify themselves along some sort of common interest. It may be that many of the items listed on the List of Lifestyles page are the same or similar to those listed here but that is a problem with the content of the other page and not with this one. (The talk page on List of Lifestyles goes through this problem in great detail.) The solution then would definitly not be to merge the two pages, but to collaboratively rework the List of Lifestyles page by agreeing on a general definition of lifestyle and removing or relocating everything that does not belong there. JenLouise 03:12, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] folk?

could a folk music subculture be listed. I personally know one exists, it has 'beleifs', certainly has style (lots of beards/ hippyish) , obviously music tastes, there's often a fairly closed community of folkies (a lot of audiances at folk gigs are folkies) , drink tastes (real ale/guiness) and people within this subculture are recognisable 'outside' the enviroment. the only reason I haven't added it is if it isn't recognised elsewhere (by people 'outside' the culture) unlike stuff like emo/indie culture, this isn't just limited to musicians by the way, theres loads of 16+ year old slightly hippyish students who follow folk bands around in my area ( it tends to be sixth form age +wards rather than school age.)

The article states that a sub-culture "is a culture or set of people with distinct behavior and beliefs within a larger culture. The essence of a subculture, that distinguishes it from other social groupings, is awareness of style and differences in style, in clothing, music or other interests".

Does manga artist dress different than other? No. Does they have any disinct behavior or belief? Not really. They have a hobby, like everyone else. But a hobby is not the same as a culture. The list is more about "what is cool" than "what is subcultures".

For this reason, I have cut away a lot of the examples. The following has been removed:

• Fandom
  • Furry fandom
  • Trekkie
  • Otaku
• Import scene
• Gamer
  • Artscene
    • Emo
  • Disco
  • Demoscene
• Sexual subcultures such as
  • BDSM subculture
  • Swinging
  • Sexual fetish subculture
    • Leather subculture
  • body modification and tattoo subcultures
• Thematic subcultures
  • Cyberpunk
  • Steampunk
• Illegal drug subcultures

--Kasper Hviid 18:57, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Many of these do qualify perfectly well as discernible subcultures, though. The only ones I can see that wouldn't are "Import scene", "Disco", "Demoscene". I suspect "Cyberpunk" and "Steampunk" are questionable. But all the others definitely qualify. I've left the entire list in this article pending further discussion - David Gerard 19:45, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Thank for your answer! I am not sure what you mean by "discernible" subcultures. Is it a word from sociology, or do you mean people we can catagorize, like "dog-owners" or "manga-artist"?

It looks like we have two different definitions:

1. Sub-culture is when a group has a lifestyle, ethics or belief which is unusually far from the culture they live in. So far, that some people think of it as "them" and "us". Examples: Punkers, expatriates, gangs, homless people.
2. Sub-culture is when a group has a shared interest, which they find so important that it becomes part of their identity. Example: Doctors, unemployed people, vegetarians, programmers, athletes, etc.

Either a small culture within a larger culture, or something a group of people has in common!

I find the first definition most usable. This would also be the literal sense of the word. But I am no expert, its just the way I have noticed the word being used. Oxford Advanced Learner's dictionary seems to support the second definition, though. --Kasper Hviid 00:27, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The second definition is much closer to the one used by sociologists, which is what the article subculture is about. (I'm not a sociologist myself, so please don't rely on me for precise terminology ;-) The first isn't really, but could be bent into the shape of the second one - David Gerard 22:48, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Im puzzled .. I dont know what the true meaning of the word is. Most definitions I see online supports 1), but that doesnt say much.--Kasper Hviid 16:03, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I think that this list should just be put back into the article about subcultures. Still, I think it would be better if the list was less focused on 'cool' subcultures, but instead had a more broad view. (Examples like doctors, cancer-patients, farmers, and such). --Kasper Hviid 10:20, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

In culture, it is stated that all cultures have key components: values, norms, institutions, and artifacts. Well, isn't a subculture just a little culture of its own? So if there's an item on the list lacking one of the key components, it doesn't qualify as a subculture. If, however, it does have all of those in some way or another, it deserves to stay. That's my two cents. --CorduroyB 3:30, 07 Sep 2006 (EST)

[edit] order of list?

from what i can see there is no order to items on this page; how about either alphabetical or maybe in 'decade of origin' order? --MilkMiruku 09:34, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

Subcultures are very myriad-to define any of these under one category would be an imposibility. This list is by no means complete or in need of an order by general items. A list by era and starting points would be an excellent idea. --Dremast3 19:53, March 13 2006

[edit] Deathrock

Deathrock is listed as a branch of the punk subculture. Surely it has just as much (if not more) in common with goth?

[edit] Systematic bias

This list pretty much only deals with Western subcultures, and it really needs to mention subculture of non-Western culture. Also, it needs to be organized into what each subculture is a subculture of.

Example(these people had nothing better to do):

• Subcultures of Western culture
  • blah
  • blahblah
    • blahblahblah(blah)
  • Bluuuu

• Subcultures of blurk (I'm not feeling very creative today.)
  • blurk
  • blurk
    • blurkblurk
  • bleep

[edit] rude boys

rude boys are listed here as a subsection of punk.

however rude boy culture started in jamaca in the sixties, long before punk came about.

[edit] Template

Is there a template for subcultures? If not, I'd like to see/contribute to the creation of one. mwazzap 04:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hip-Hop lifestyle

could the hip hop culture really be called a subculture? I mean, you hear about it all the time, BET for instance.Angelofdeath275 02:23, 10 October 2006 (UTC)