Talk:Mexican American

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Contents 1 Political affiliation 2 Name 3 Arguably Accurate but Doesn't Belong 4 Religion 5 Redundancy of term "Mexican American"? 6 Bias? 7 Latino template 8 Can anyone tell someone is Mexican from American? 9 No mention on intermarriage rates 10 long list of Mexican American communities 11 new material, citations 12 Mexican American vs. illegal Mexican alien

[edit] Political affiliation

To suggest Mexican-Americans usually support the Democratic party, is a misleading fact. if your defination of usually is over 50% then this statement is false -according the U.S. elections

statement is true and article has 2004 actual voting data. Rjensen 19:56, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Not entirely misleading, since there are Mexican-Americans vote in the Republican party. Texas was one example as two-thirds of the state's Latino vote went to incumbent president George W. Bush in 2004. Bush's appeal to Latinos from both personal experiences and the growing political base in his home states, Bush swayed many traditionally Democrat voters of all races and classes. Please this isn't a POV, but a fact you can find in state (Texas) and federal (U.S.) election results. --Mike D 26 20:48, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Name

Would this not be better at Mexican American, in line with for example Chinese American, German American, Indian American, and so on? — Pekinensis 00:15, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

I agree. I'll start moving. — Stevey7788 (talk) 00:53, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

O.K., I'll start putting this into action. {{move}} template attached here. — Stevey7788 (talk) 00:55, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Support for above reason. --Taejo 11:32, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

I've moved the [age. Paul August ☎ 04:30, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

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ZabMom: I used to live in California, and it is a lie to say that Mexican Americans don't use the social welfare system. I personally saw their abuse of the system. They would pack together in public housing and pool together their food stamps, wic, welfare checks, social security checks, etc. They also receive benefits to buy homes, and they send their children to government schools. So it is a LIE to say they don't use the social welfare system.

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Malcolm X: it is funny that you say that most Mexicans abuse welfare. I am a Mexican American and i've never been on welfare in my life, am in college, am working full tome, don't have any kids, fit and the only person living "packed" with me is my little brother. Another funny thing is that last week i went to the grocery store and the only people i saw using WIC was a white women and a white guy trying to buy beer with his food stamp card.

All Mexican's are American, as are all Brazilians, Canadians etc. This is a meaningless term surely? Markb 11:45, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

No that is not how people talk, They use the term "Mexican American" millions of times every day to refer to a real group of 20+ million people. They are NEVER talking about Brazilians. Rjensen 05:31, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

This is an encylopedia, not a dictonary (try http://en.wiktionary.org). Just because 'people' use the phrase doesn't mean it is accurate. The Xxxx American usage appears to specify a group of people who have moved from Xxxx to live in America. In the case of Mexico, they already were/are America, it would be more accurate to describe them as 'American Americans'. Markb 13:21, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

That also striked me. It makes no sence. Most Mexicans can either be called Spanish-, or native Americans - or, more oftenly, both. Mexican American is an Oxymoron in that context, since it makes me, as an Unamerican think of citizens of Mexico living in Mexico (In contrast to US-Americans) 84.167.231.27 15:00, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Arguably Accurate but Doesn't Belong

I don't see a reason to enumerate illegal immigrants in the first paragraph. While illegal immigrants are a sizable population they are not numerically representative of the whole. The article is a bit non-NPOV and you are perpetuating a stereotype if you leave it this way. The article is about Mexican-Americans, not illegal immigrants.

This is like writing in an article about U.S. Americans: "Of the 300 million Americans, 215 million are obese and an estimated 50 million are ignorant. Most unhealthily obese Americans reside in Florida, South Carolina and Colorado. Of the ignorant Americans, most don't know if Canada resides on the northern border or the southern border. Additionally, in scholastic aptitude tests, most high school freshmen score at a 65 pecentile when measured against their Singaporean, English, Australian and other Anglophone counterparts. Low scores and their gradual decreases are attributed to obesity and lack of exercise, and cultural complacence due to individualistic values."

It's frighteningly accurate, but it doesn't belong in an introductory paragraph. --Deepstratagem 09:52, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Religion

Under the culture section, only the arts are highlighted. I would like to see some information on religion as well

Mexican Americans are for one thing, predominantly Roman Catholic as this goes back 500 years, after the Spanish introduced this kind of Christianity into what's now Mexico and Latin America. There's quite a heavy folk segment in Mexican Catholic practices, mainly of Amerindian origin as well localized mythology like the story of the Virgin Mary sightings in Guadalupe, Mexico (1543). Also we need to indicate there are Protestants in the Mexican American community, along with an increase of Spanish-speaking Protestant denominations in the U.S. since 1990. Jews of Spanish origin settled in Mexico (new Spain) since the 1600's and today, only 34,000 estimated Mexican Jews continue to practice Judaism in the country. --Mike D 26 20:58, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Redundancy of term "Mexican American"?

The section on the redundancy of the term "Mexican American" should probably be removed. The way American is used in Latin America is to mean more or less from the Americas. In the phrase Mexican American, at least in US English, it is used to describe a person of Mexican descent who lives in the US. The term is only redundant in Spanish and Portugese as spoken in Latin America. Theshibboleth 06:41, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

The fact that the term is actually used in the U.S.A. doesn't make the term any less redundant. For example "PIN Number" is widely used but it is still redundant.
--Deepstratagem 06:33, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

_ _ The Shib is right, and the analogy is absurd.

_ _ It is a fact that "number" is part of what PIN abbreviates (though the PIN number article creates a controversy where there is none: all it needs to say is that strictly speaking there is redundancy; any sensible reader knows that that implies some people will draw attention to the fact. (But that is off-topic in that article, bcz drawing attention to it is not about PIN numbers, but about a matter of psychology and sociology -- about what underlies drawing attention to

• such redundant expressions,
• the "nucular" and "artic" and "Febuary" pronunciations of the corresponding words,
• whether it's ever accurate to write a zero in a box that asks for a "number",
• whether Caucasians should write "white" or "pink" in boxes asking for race, and,
• oh yes, now i remember, about how concieted it is to write the first person singular pronoun in upper case, as if i were a monarch entitled to violate plain logic in My personal grammar.)

_ _ This is not about a fact of redundancy, but about the fact that some people object to the primary meaning in English of the word "American"; they want to use it only in a way that would make it redundant to use it in the phrase the article is about. The mention in the article is simply hijacking users' attention in order to harangue them about something they are not interested in.
--Jerzy•t 05:12, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you, Jerzy; the analogy only goes so far. However, since the people who object to the meaning in the U.S. of the word "American" happen to be the people described in the article, and since the redundancy exists as a recognized socio-cultural phenomenon it is more relevant than you make it out to be. --Deepstratagem 06:09, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Really, do we need to compartmentalize everyone down to the smallest group we can come up with? Mexican American is like saying caucasian white guy. It's that redundant. How about we all be Americans instead of Mexican American, Irish American, African American, Italian American, British American. How come I never hear Canadian American? Why not be unified instead of divided. If you were born in America and reside in America, then you're and American. It's just getting down right rediculous.

I agree, partially. Some people - i.e. born in another country or with parents or parent from another country, can be or clearly are "X-American". However, certainly not everyone with a drop of X ancestry is "X-American", as some Wikipedia editors seem to errnoneously believe. Mad Jack 06:35, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

You really shouldn't blame wiki editors for this. The debate over Mexican-Americans being white Americans has been going on way before wikipedia came along. I suggest you look up LULAC and get more aquainted with this topic since it might be assumed you are cluttering up the talk page. Mosquito-001 13:50, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

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Evidence that others consider the term Mexican American redundant and the reasoning behind it. Deepstratagem 21:07, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bias?

The Economic issues portion states that Mexican Americans almost exclusively are blue collar workers in places such as California, Texas, Arizona, ect. It seems to draw the conclusion that there are no Mexican Americans in White Collar fields. I find this to be untrue. I hope someone will rewrite the entire paragraph to reflect a more truthful picture.

Also, most of the information tends to lean towards ethnic Mexican and not Mexican Americans. As if to say there is little difference in the cultural, economic and social standing of Mexican Americans and Mexican immigrants. There is a difference!

Sgarza 17:17, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

• Okay. I changed "Economic Issues". It's short and sweet. And more precise. Sgarza
• Here we go again! Why does this article emphasize Mexican American poverty and not our social mobility? If anything we have the greatest mobility of all! If we emphasize one, it only fair to emphasize the other! Sgarza 16:35, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Greatest mobility? Add to the article if you can find any sources that confirm this idea.

Another topic that is missing in the article is crime. IIRC, Mexican Americans have crime rates twice the American (USA) average. This is significant and worth adding to the article if proper sources are found and added. Peoplesunionpro 03:38, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Latino template

Please help with the Latino template. --JuanMuslim ^1m 18:38, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Removed edit below is appropriate for articles on Latino and Hispanic people, but not in Mexican American, and Vicente Fox-Quesada is the former president of Mexico relevant to the article. Bachelet and Chile are the other side of the coin, the same coin but let's put this edit on sections dealing with racial categories and what North Americans assume Vicente Fox is "white" or treated like a "Mexican". I mean, he's from Mexico (yes, Mexican) but of mainly European background (in the eyes of some horribly narrow-minded white Americans, he's another white guy in the street). It would be the same for a customs officer examined Michele Bachelet's ethnicity and get confused on whether she's a "Latina" (Chilean) or a Frenchwoman (not Canadian, Ok?).

<< Many prominent "white" Latin Americans who "don't look" like a stereotypical "brown" Latino, for example, Chilean president Michelle Bachelet would be called a "white Anglo" due to her heavy European (French-German-Greek) background, despite she originally came from a Spanish speaking country in South America, not a Mexican. ^{[citation needed]} >>

[edit] Can anyone tell someone is Mexican from American?

Whoever said you can tell a Mexican is an American not an immigrant across the border is a recent practice of discrimination and stereotypes. There are plenty of ethnic jokes of what an American "Mexican" (Chicano) looks like: Knows english but speaks "spanglish", has a bandana, wears a shirt with Aztec calendars, a "Raiders" cap or jersey, has tattoos of gothic letters on arms or back, drives low-rider customized '76 Cutlasses, the radio is on "Art LaBoe smooth rock oldies" and has a shaved head (men) or dyed blond hair (women). I'm afraid this is a result of American society took notice of Mexican immigrants dress, acts, talks or appears not exactly like what longer descriptions of "Mexicans" or Chicanos are. But the level of racial hate crimes against Latinos is feed by two different, but equally harmful images of what a "Mexican" or "Chicano" looks like, and I'm surprised with the media attention on hate crimes, the record on how much Mexican Americans or Latinos are targeted never carried weight. --Mike D 26 06:40, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Mexicans ARE Americans. See Use of the word American. Deepstratagem 07:57, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

If the person of Mexican descent is born and raised in the U.S., and are naturalized citizens, you're totally right. But as long racial stereotypes and anti-immigration attitudes exist, the perception of Mexican Americans is going to release the kind of discrimination and intimidation. There are jokes and slurs that described Mexican Americans and other Latinos that I don't see as funny...and I'm not a Latino. You still have Anglos referred Mexicans as a backward, docile or "stupid" people unable to assimilate, but only want to work and get money to send home, a generally offensive statement. In movies and T.V. shows in the 1960's, Mexican Americans are depicted as bandits and field workers, always sleeping on the job or violently attacks white people, and spoke in accents: "ey speek no eengles". Most people in today's society don't find it real or funny, just like age-old racial portrayals of African Americans, Chinese, Arabs, etc. won't bother to get transmitted today. --Mike D 26 20:53, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I get the impression you didn't read the article. Mexico is in America, like Germany is in Europe, and therefore Mexicans are Americans, just like Germans are Europeans. Deepstratagem 08:32, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

"American" is reference to the United States of America. In English language, the word "American" usually refers to this. Peoplesunionpro 03:33, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I'm with Deepstratagem on this one. Yes, "American" in the English language only refers to a resident of the United States. However, as a United States citizen, I've never considered this a proper term at all; for one, it's not reliable, your average American out of central or south America hardly ever relates to what you're describing; and two, the name of my country is the United States of America, as in every resident of the western hemisphere is an American, I am just a US citizen. So when you add it all up, the term just doesn't fit. However, sometime in the near future, I'd like to see someone casually make an impact on the world to separate the two. Nikki88 04:50, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] No mention on intermarriage rates

There is a rising rate of racial or cultural intermarriage between whites/ Anglos and Latinos/Mexican Americans. Although not entirely common at this time, but I said this is on the rise and indicates the rate of assimilation is happening when a Latino/a is comfortable to marry a white Anglo...or outside their ethnicity. Anyone has an opinion on this and what it means for Mexican Americans, some have strong ties to Mexican heritage and insist on preservation of that? Personally, I've knew "white Americans" or those with blonde hair, blue eyes and light skin said they are Mexican or have a parent/grandparent who was. It's not yet a trend for anyone to say "I'm part Mexican" alike to say "part Indian" (not tribal) or "part Chinese" (not from China) or "part Jewish" (not religious). In the past when prejudice against Latinos was worse, it was considered miscegenation to some Anglos to marry outside their race or color, sometimes included with Hispanics. Today, most people aren't afraid of intermarriage and this silly fear of what their children look like or identify with. But if the trend of intermarriage does become common, will the Mexican American group blend in not socially, but genetically, with Anglos or white people? --Mike D 26 06:42, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Mexican relates to nationality and not race. Nothing prevents a "white" or a "black" person from being Mexican, if they have the ancestry, culture or nationality. 70% of the Mexican population has European roots. See Demographics of Mexico. Now, whether "Mexican American" is considered a race (provincially speaking, in the United States) that's an interesting question, but technically, the answer is no. Deepstratagem 07:54, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm not trying to insult or degrade people of Mexican ancestry, but I'm saying a trend gain notice in the U.S. Census and Hispanic political groups. This is a shared experience with all immigrant ethnic groups in the U.S. as more children or/and grand-children of immigrants would marry someone from another culture. True, state laws blocked intermarriage of white and African Americans, and in California, white and Asian Americans. Hispanics (in the case of Mexican Americans) are exempt because they qualified as "white" or European racial descent, unless they are declared "other" or appeared more African or American Indian on past Census documents. --Mike D 26 20:48, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] long list of Mexican American communities

What is the fn value in listing all these cities? danedouard00 07:28, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm inclined to replace the long list with an overlayed map of the US from the census bureau... please discuss danedouard00 06:42, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

im pretty sure that in DC its adams morgan with the high mexican population not just DC its self. im gonna do some research. - signed by anon IP

Go ahead, the Washington DC article might have info. on these matters, most major city articles have sections on featured neighborhoods and how they vary from one another. I believe some of the list of Mexican-American communities are skeptical and not throughly researched, some may be more Puerto Ricans, Guatemalans, Salvadorans, Dominicians and Cubans than Mexicans et al. + 63.3.14.129 06:13, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] new material, citations

this article tends to get a lot of edits that end up in questionable or unsourced material. a lot of it hints at being first hand experience or understanding by the editor, which doesn't really contribute to a good encyclopedia article.

there's already lots of clean-up that's required and i would suggest that new edits be reverted unless they have accompanying citatiosn or summarize already-sourced material. i've already done that with a long series of edits that were done today with no backup. danedouard00 02:41, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mexican American vs. illegal Mexican alien

Folks, we need to keep these terms straight.

I cleaned up the article a little under "Economic and Social issues" but there is more work to be done. According to the very first sentence, Mexican Americans are legitimate US Citizens - not illegal aliens. Therefore the article should not dwell on any perceived plight of the illegal Mexican alien, difficulty finding employers willing to break the law to hire them, illegals receiving or not receiving government benefits, etc.

In addition, articles referring here (such as Santa Ana) probably need to reference illegal immigrant as well.

The "Discrimination and stereotypes" section is poorly written and should probably be removed altogether. --Da Cubs 04:18, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. Please remove. I hate reading unencyclopedic junk. Be prepared to get unexplained restores from persons with variable quality standards... they'll make themselves known.danedouard00 05:58, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Done. Some editors keep making it worse. danedouard00 21:24, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

The section was rewritten and cleaned to anyone's liking...but no reliable sources and "citation needed" captions everywhere. I observe what goes on in the Mexican American community about the issue of stereotypes. There wasn't enough mention on today, there is less overt discrimination against Mexican Americans. But, the main problems affecting the ethnic group are immigration problems (legality and status) and the impact of large sources of "Mexican" cheap labor. The Mexican cultural niche is stronger because of millions of Mexicans straight out of the rural interior states, carried much of their culture over the border and not the same culture you may find in Mexico city, the beach resorts or in east Los Angeles. Not all Mexicans are the same and most older generation Mexican Americans think of themselves as Americans of Mexican descent...not "Mexicans" happen to live in another country. + 63.3.14.129 05:56, 24 January 2007 (UTC)