Talk:Misty (Pokémon)

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[edit] Ash and Misty's relationship

Is it necessary to have anything about it in the article? Every spoken Ash+Misty hint was added by the dubbers {especially in The Heartbreak of Brock, Wherefore Art Thou Pokemon?, and Gotta Catch Ya Later}, and Misty's Song isn't what most would consider solid evidence {it was released on a semi-official America-only non-canonical album, wasn't even sung by anyone who sounded even remotely like Misty, and NEVER specified who she was singing to}. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.48.218.157 (talk)

There seemed to be a lot of demand to have the information included in the article, and many editors, including unregistered, anonymous editors (like you!), were adding unreferenced information. At least the information now included in the article is cited, and it doesn't seem like there's any significant original research, either. --Brandon Dilbeck 18:36, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't think any of it is very significant. It's all dubber-added nonsense. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.48.218.157 (talk)

The dubbers can add whatever they want. Whether you like their changes or not, we have to cover it encyclopedically. --Brandon Dilbeck 18:39, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

This is the English Wikipedia, and since the hints were in the English version of the show it belongs in Misty's English article. -- The Hybrid 19:07, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, but it's the JAPANESE team that CREATED the show and characters who decide which characters end up in a relationship. If you want ACTUAL evidence for a pairing in an anime, it's best to check the Japanese version first, not a rewritten Americanized dub. In this show's case, there is close to 0 actual hints of Ash and Misty having ANY sort of relationship in the original. And in this show's case, nothing more than friendship ever ended up forming between them. Misty wanted a bike, she got it, she left, plain and simple. 4Kids just wanted something to replace all the very strong Jessie+James hints they've removed over the years {particularly bad, and rather cheesy, was their rewriting of the 2nd movie so they could shove the idea down the audience's collective throat, along with the episodes previously mentioned, where they also rewrote scenes, often completely, just to push the OMG MISTY LOVES ASH AND JESSIE AND JAMES HATE EACH OTHER LOL mentality that so many Ash+Misty supporters on the internet seem to share}.

And are you actually trying to defend 4Kids, the worst dubbing company in America? {No, wait, scratch that--they don't even dub anime anymore, they horribly butcher and Americanize it beyond recognition.} Do you see any other company adding relationships that don't exist, or taking out existing ones? No. 4Kids should learn to stay as true to the original as possible, and localize a show right the first time or not at all.

I see that you are really adamant about this. Read over the section in the article. It states that, in America, there was/is a major fandom that believes Misty has a crush on Ash. That is a fact. It states that the reason is certain clues from the anime. Regardless of 4Kids involvement, this is also a fact, as there were clues in the English anime. Regardless of who put them in the anime, they were in there. The entire section is sourced. If you would like to provide sources for what you are saying, then I would be more than willing to add a paragraph on how 4Kids tampered with the scripts to create this shipping fandom. Also, ranting about the evil 4Kids is not productive. We can't ignore what they did because we don't like it. That is not the way of the true encyclopedian (cue flute and piccolo music, and Native American chanting). Word up, home slice. -- The Hybrid 22:50, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

And I won't defend anyone. I don't have to. They did what they wanted to, and as an encyclopedian it is my job to simply deal with it. Complaining about it doesn’t benefit me in any way. It just wastes my time and energy while changing absolutely nothing. -- The Hybrid 22:55, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Big issue with references

I never really checked before now, but I've realized that the sources we are using in this article are dismal. Writing citations and attributions usually isn't my cup of tea, but it's obvious to me that what we have here is largely unacceptable. There are currently 17 footnoted citations. I am listing them here in case they are changed later:

I don't really have anything to say about References 1–5. It's References 6–17 that present us with problems and difficult decisions. These references are all referred to by the Relationship with Ash section. You see, as recently as a few months ago, many editors were adding unverified information on the romance between the characters Ash and Misty without adding any citations and these additions were being reverted. So the information was readded, perhaps by different editors. A cycle was created. Then someone, I forget who, and it isn't important now, rewrote the section, supplying it with a lot of references. The problem is that I don't think most of these references would comply with Wikipedia's attribution policy (WP:A).

References 6–9 look like a childish fan site that contains only speculation and I can't put a lot of trust into it—a quotation: "it's just really cute because Brock is caught up in some spell thingy with the girl and Ash and Misty try and break him out of it and go on their on mission thing ^_~" It doesn't sound at all professional to me.

References 13 and 17 attribute Bulbapedia. I am of the opinion that WE SHOULD NOT BE CITING BULBAPEDIA. That encyclopedia seems to be full of missing information and low article standards. And neither of those Bulbapedia articles demonstrate any attribution. And Reference 17 says that it "does not yet meet the quality standards of Bulbapedia"—we can't be citing something that's been pointed out as not meeting quality standards. I'm not saying that we should be holding Bulbapedia to Wikipedia's standards, but the site is similar in appearance so they probably copied standards as well.

References 14–16 might be the cream of the crop of bad pickins. I'll just state immediately that 14 and 15 return what appear to be 404 errors! I'm sure they weren't 404 errors when they were first cited, but they can't stay. And in any case, we shouldn't be citing petitions. The article uses the citations to demonstrate that there are indeed petitions, and I think there's some problem with this. I'm not sure exactly what it is, but I think it falls along the lines of using original research.

So I think we need to make a decision; some action needs to be taken somehow. These references aren't doing a good job of giving the section a good foundation, and the section can't stand by itself anyway. So I think the section needs to be taken down. --Brandon Dilbeck 08:22, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Also, I should have done some digging around before writing all that, but a similar discussion has occurred in the past: Talk:Misty (Pokémon)/Archive 1#Shipping --Brandon Dilbeck 08:24, 31 March 2007 (UTC)