Talk:Narmer Palette

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The Narmer Palette is depicting a section of the Genesis scripture. The scene depicted on the Palette is one of the main stories in the Genesis,..which is the murder of Abel by Cain. The figure carrying the sandles means that Cain and Abel walked a long distance until reaching a marshy erea where today would be the spot where the great Sphinx sits on the Giza Plateau. In this spot Cain raised his staff or stick and beats Abel to death, mostly by hitting on the head. The two figures at the bottom of the Palette my be either stating that the two where brothers, or that Abel ran away from his family with a companion. The other side of the palette depicts Abel's funnerary procession. Again the figure with the sandles depicts that this procession was a long walk that ended by a pyramid, probably the pyramid of Menkaura on the Giza plateau. The boat depicts that this procession was happening by the Nile river, and that the whole procession was very pompus and extravagant. Of course there was only a few humans at the time when Cain killed Abel, not enough for a pompus procession full of people: what the Palette is trying to state is that the grave of Abel was later visited by people of the coming generations to venerate him. Again the bull stamping the figure at the bottom of the palette reminds the onlooker that at this spot Abel was killed in a beastly manner.

We can clearly see that prophet Moses was brought up by the priests of Hierankopolis where he was taught the ancient holy scriptures. A torah that was already written in stone and preserved by the priests of Hierankopolis. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 196.218.27.140 (talk • contribs).

[edit] History of Palette: "Cosmetic palette"

The original Palette (Egyptian Xxxxx) (in books) were obviously pictorial, and probably hung for display (as a painting)(Not Narmer's) of today's "Rope Art". (Some contained the bored holes for the rope/string for hanging.) They often had the motif of the bird beak (actually bird head) at each side, (the term facing, or facing away: confronted, or anti-confronted (?). The circle in the center was not originally there, as sometimes an entire surface was Unadorned, (the whole palette). Only the very top, or some other point had some animal motif, reference. (An example of a proto-palette is an ovoid turtle, no adorning, just set up for hanging (with stubby turtle feet)).

There appear to be about 12, a dozen or so more spectacular palettes. (These were after the "Proto-palette"s.) An incomplete list: (from memory:)(Palette (Egyptian historical)

1. the Cosmetic palette
2. the Proto-palette
3. Bull Pallette
4. Vulture Palette
5. Palette of the Five Standards (vis. Palette of the Hunt)
6. Giraffe-Palm Palete
7. Two Panther Palette
8. Libya Palette
9. Two Hippopotamus Palette
10. Tribute to City-states Palette=Libya Palette(officiale-nominus)-(Cairo Egyptian Museum)
11. Narmer Palette
12. ---Etc.--Totally incomplete list. Some of the above names are the "Standard"; others mine. added Libya Palette..(Cosmetic palette-Stub) -Mmcannis 15:29, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Any egyptophile who has perused the books, ((or attempted the Hiegoglyphic translations)), or been in the appropriate museum, (for example: Los Angeles County Museum of Art), can see these Proto-palettes on display(the above list are not the "Prote-pallette"s, but Palette (Egyptian historical)). notes from the ArizonaDesert.. -SonoraDesert-- (Also = =giving a header= = to the above unsigned First Section)...Mmcannis 18:07, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but what are you saying this has to do with the article here? The Narmer Palette is notable for its apparent depiction of the unification of the Two Kingdoms and for its mention of a unifying king not mentioned in the king list.

If you're proposing a general article on Egyptian palettes, go right ahead and create it. I caution you that giving your own names to them is original research which we cannot include here. Also be sure to provide citations for features such as the interpretation of the holes you give above. (To me, they could equally well been for hanging on a peg for storage, although with the decorative motifs a secondary purpose of display is not unlikely.) TCC (talk) (contribs) 00:44, 1 January 2007 (UTC) [The last picture I saw of a turtle palette, January2007, "Ian Shaw: (editor)" Ancient Egypt(20 authors), (P. 49, hardbound), c2000 (hardcover, ISBN 0-19-815034-2) has a hole in the top margin, center for hanging[pick the Type of hanging]: Yellow painted eye(only paint job), tiny, miniscule tail, about 1/25th, or 1/30th area of fish. No scales, but a few lines(details) here and there. The example was used as a color photo[bottom rectangle 1/2 of page], because it is so exceptional, with no breaks.)] -Mmcannis 15:29, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

The Narmer Palette appears to be the last of the 'series'. Virtually all of the previous ones are "proto-dynastic" or later, at least in style. The earliest have sometimes no adornments, only shapes (As the turtle-shape mentioned), or the bird heads, which are in the proto-dynastic motif. I am just trying to relate that the amazing Narmer palette is the last of them, .... but there are some other amazing ones too. (from the ArizonaDesert).... -Mmcannis 06:13, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Erm... The Narmer Palette is Protodynastic according to many Egyptologists, and there are many other examples of palettes, some earlier, some later, and others roughly contemporary. TCC (talk) (contribs) 06:32, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

I am not sure any are later than the Narmer Palette. I think Egypt got started, and was up to bigger and better endeavors (on the way to pyramids and all)(and language). But a Date-list of palettes would be nice-and Provenance.-- (from Arizona's,SonoranDesert-) ..-Mmcannis 15:29, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I suspect the misunderstanding may have something to do with Narmer being considered Dynasty 0 or Dynasty 1 (or even straddling the two), and is the "latest" of the finds from the Main deposit (Nekhen). It is likely that it was not the very final such palette ever made, but it is one of the more easily dateable ones, and it is datable to end of the protodynastic period.

For a picture of another protodynastic palette which could be used for an article on the subject (hint hint), see the one available on WikiMedia in the shape of a turtle at: [1].

Cheers! Captmondo 16:52, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I assume the only other ones that are date-able, are from their "Find -positions? I can only think of the Narmer as datable. The Libya Palette has a Scorpion on it, but long before Serket, or King Scorpion..And I think only two others(1 the Libya) have hieroglyphs(total plus Narmer P. -3). --Mmcannis 19:21, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I see there was a Protodynastic king: Serket I. -Mmcannis 19:31, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

The Narmer Palette is not actually dateable from its findspot. It was in the Main Deposit at Hierakonpolis, which was not well-recorded in situ when excavated and was evidently a kind of dumping ground for old objects that were no longer useful but too sacred to simply dump. It contained artifacts from a range of eras. The Palette was approximately dated by the comparative method, IIRC.

There are other objects, not palettes but things like labels, bearing early hieroglyphs, but since these are not the same as the later glyphs they can't be read with any certainty. TCC (talk) (contribs) 22:16, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I've never heard of the Main deposit (Nekhen) being described as a dumping ground in the way you describe it TCC, got a citation for that one? (Not being challenging, am genuinely curious). Though I can't find the source, I remember hearing of once sacred objects being disposed of by burial if they had been desecrated in some manner, but that was millenia later than this.

And for Mmcannis' benefit, the find positions were not recorded properly when the dig at Nekhen was done in the late 1890s. Read the article for a good, if brief, overview of what is known about the dig.

Had a chance to look at once of my reference books that mentions the palettes, and what makes the Narmer Palette special is that it uniquely(?) seems to describe events involving a pharaoh who can be named. For the record, other Egyptian palettes of note to ancient Egyptian historians include the following: the Battlefield Palette, the Bull Palette, the Cairo-Brooklyn Palette, the Hunter's Palette, the Libyan Booty Palette, the Min Palette, the Ostrich Palette and the Oxford Palette. I don't believe any of them other than the Narmer palette are linkable to any other pharaoh.

For a good online source that references all of them (good start for an article on the subject), see: Masking the Blow: The Scene of Representation in Late Prehistoric Egyptian Art (kind of esoteric in terms of its subject-matter, but has pictures of most of the major known ancient Egyptian palettes). Captmondo 23:24, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Michael Hoffman characterized it that way in Egypt Before the Pharaohs unless my memory is unreliable, as it occasionally is. I don't have the book in front of me so I can't give a page reference ATM. TCC (talk) (contribs) 23:43, 24 January 2007 (UTC)