Talk:Ned Kelly
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It is requested that a photograph or photographs of Ned Kelly gangs' suit of armour be included in this article to improve its quality. |
[edit] To do
Other things that need to be mentioned:
- The Jerilderie letter.
- The various fictional retellings (the early film version, the Mick Jagger version, the Peter Carey novel, the other novel that was adapted into the film version with Heath Ledger).
--Robert Merkel 13:20 28 Jun 2003 (UTC)
I was under the belief that the 1906 film The Story of the Kelly Gang was the first full length film. --Roisterer 20:46, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)
In early life "nineth of eight children" needs to be fixed. Obviously if there were eight kids total, he could not be the ninth. Also, is "nineth" an acceptable spelling of "ninth"?--66.63.116.254 28 June 2005 23:13 (UTC)
Can we obtain an image of his armour? It's such an important part of the history and legend I'm surprised there's no images of it. --Mintie 05:59, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Fizpatrick's "assault" on Kate Kelly
The following sentence is inappropriate, "Ned's sister Kate also attracted the attention of Constable Alexander Fitzpatrick, who assaulted her on a visit to the Kelly home in 1878. Fitzpatrick accused Ned of attempted murder, and Ned went into hiding;". There is no evidence that Fitzpatrick assaulted Kate Kelly – a later elaboration that was not, afaik, reported at the time even by the Kellys. Any the Kelly version should not be presented as fact while the Fizpatrick version is presented as an accusation. Neither parties were trustworthy witnesses. Paul B 18:24, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
- please see my edit of the sentence and check if that answers your concerns--User:AYArktos | Talk 20:07, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Ned's age when his father died
I've changed the age from 12 to 11, following this page:
- "The 'parcels' are written by Peter Carey from Ned Kelly's perspective, and are not Ned's words. They begin with the following: "I lost my own father at 12 yr. of age…" Actually, Ned's precise age at the time of his father's death has not yet been discovered by researchers, (as no record of his birth or baptism survives). However, reliable documented evidence proves that Ned believed himself to be "11 ½" years of age on 27 Dec 1866, (Ned himself gave this information and signed father's death registration)."
Cnwb 05:22, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Ned Kelly Links
A historically reliable non-profit website that could be added to the links for this section is http://www.bailup.com
[edit] Hero?
Ned Kelly is anti-racist hero???? Some think so on your conceptions of race page. Await the return
[edit] Devil's Rejects
There is a parallel to Ned Kelly's last stand in the film Devil's Rejects. The Firefly family members are wearing Ned Kelly armor, and there are four of them fighting off a police siege.
[edit] Cleanup
This section of the page is badly organized. The dates are clearly wrong as Kelly goes from 4 to 16 in the space of a couple years and it seems as if there is some text missing. The first two paragraphs are esepcially bad. What exactly was the Kelly family being charged with? Kerowyn 05:26, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Ah Fook?!
Does anyone have a source for the name of the assaulted chinese pig farmer? Sounds like a prank to me.
- http://www.glenrowan1880.com/ah_fook.htm (I've added it to the article). Stevage 12:11, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Re Ah Fook - he certainly existed though his evidence may have been suspect. Refer to Ian Jones, (1995)Ned Kelly,pp.37-38 for material on Ah Fook. Such names were common in the era. Refer also to A.O'Brien, (1999) [unpublished]thesis titled 'Awaiting Ned Kelly' available for inspection and research at Burke Museum reading room, Beechworth, for a range of Chinese names simailar to Ah Fook and for an insight into the Chinese giving (false) evidence in Beechworth and surrounding courts during early 1870s. See also A.O'Brien's [published] Shenanigans on the Ovens Goldfields (2005) for a indepth chapter on Chinese on the Northeastern goldfields during 1859. Also refer to K. Cronin, Colonial Casualties: Chinese in early Victoria, Melbourne University Press, 1982. Tonyob 00:50, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Jack Duggan: "The Wild Colonial Boy"
A song is often sung in Ireland about an Irish-born Austalian outlaw called Jack Duggan, ("The Wild Colonial Boy"). According to the song, he was born in Castlemaine, County Kerry, Ireland. That town now has signs at the entrance, (from memory, please correct if need be) "Birth-place of The Wild Colonial Boy."
"There was a wild colonial boy
Jack Duggan was his name.
He was born and reared in Ireland
In a place called Castlemaine..."
Naturally,
"He robbed the rich
To help the poor."
And, for good measure,
"He stabbed James McEvoy."
Duggan, at least from the information provided by the song, died in a shoot-out with three policemen, two of whom he downed:
"But a bullet pierced
His proud young heart
From the pistol of Fitzroy
And that was how they captured Jack,
The Wild Colonial Boy."
If anyone has any information on this character, I'd be delighted to hear from them--PeadarMaguidhir 11:50, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
I too was introduced to this song in primary school in Australia along with other Australian/Irish/British folk songs (Click go the Shears, Bound for Botany Bay, Waltzing Matilda etc.). However the version we learnt didn't mention Ireland and changed his name to Doolan (not Duggan). I was always of the belief that it was a fictional amalgam of lots of Australian bush rangers.--81.144.244.194 11:47, 30 June 2006 (UTC)Lucas
- Here in Australia we are very familiar with that particular folk song. The original "Wild Colonial Boy" was a bushranger named Jack Donohoe, a native of Dublin who was transported to New South Wales in 1825, escaped to the bush, and ranged the Penrith area for about four years, before being tracked down by a posse of police, soldiers and volunteers, and shot in the head. Snottygobble 12:02, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Thank you both for the information. I just wonder how the name, Jack Donoghue, fits into the song's meter. Any further explanations/theories/historical fragments/biographies will be most welcome.--PeadarMaguidhir 20:00, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Chinamen
As much as I dislike most people of oriental descent, isn't the term "chinaman" derogatory when used on a encyclopedia? 88.110.253.25 23:13, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
- Changed - you could have edited it too :-) --Arktos talk 23:41, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
- Are we talking about the guys who made the railroads? Alastairward 23:08, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Ned Kelly is particularly a hero for the Australian Celtic community, who view him as an anti-racist legend.
I removed the above sentence, as there seems to be several things wrong with it:
- Firstly it is entirely unsourced.
- The concept of an "Australian Celtic community", surely a complete fallicy.
- Anti-racist? How so? Maybe the writer is referring to anti-Irish racism. This does not sit neatly with the facts - an Irishman who murdered three Irish policemen, and was condemned to death by an Irish judge. If Kelly was unfairly persecuted, it was for a combination of factors, him being a poor Irish Catholic son of a convict. Several factors - and far more complex than some simple racism.
- Legend - maybe, but not for the reasons in this sentence.
--Michael Johnson 01:05, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
You obviously have no understanding of the Irish identity if you call the judge Irish.
[edit] Article is lacking evidence - Ned Kelly
This article needs a good work over and citations. Some claims in this article are untrue and unsourced. Have made a few changes and added the essential citations and will rework some other comments. Comments quoted from another website aren't evidence.Tonyob 04:11, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Ned Kelly as Political Icon
The following post was edited by the author 8th Jan.
With removal of additional new paragraphs on the subject, with respect, I am hopeful to have some of it if not all re-instated. Further onging research into the 'Gorman' / Kelly / Berrigan ANA / Federation League Berrigan connections are verifiable. web page http://www.ironicon.com.au/nativened.htm
I look forward to see a balanced view presented, not one where Ned is always expunged from our history except for bushranging, murder and outlawry. I can understand reluctance to have information posted on Wikipedia if it is not entirely true. However, when does truth become accepted?
I agree the current text under heading 'Ned Kelly as political Icon' is short and sweet, and goes some way to explain what Ned could have been, but fails to explain how close he was to our political structure via Federation.
I will not re edit the page, but hope someone will consider the connections and make mention of it.
With thanks Bill Denheld 5 Jan 2007 edited 8 Jan 07
- The underlying principle for Wikipedia is not that something is "true" but that it is "verifiable". So we do not include what we "know" but what we can find a source for. Find a written source to support your POV and it can be included, with the source. --Michael Johnson 03:48, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Thank you Michael, Verification will not be too difficult as it is underpined by truth. With thanks, Bill
[edit] Introduction
The author of the last change to the introduction has asked for it to be discussed on the talk page. As requested here are my comments:
his violent confrontations in home-made plate metal armour and helmet There was only one confrontation in armour.
gained made him hu?
most well-known perhaps best-known?
He was hanged at Melbourne Gaol after being wounded in a showdown Wasn't there a trial in between?
at Glenrowan in 1880 disjointed from the above mentioned confrontations.
The introduction as it stands now needs to be re-written.
--Michael Johnson 11:39, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
- I've edited the introduction to comver many of the concerns above. Please note the use of the work iconic. I believe this best represents Kelly's position in Australian history. --Michael Johnson 00:05, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] 'as game as Ned Kelly'
The Australian term 'as game as Ned Kelly' entered the language and is a common expression. Could someone explain what this expression means? --Ace Frahm 15:51, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
