User talk:Oakshade/Archive 1

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User talk:Oakshade/Archive 1

Contents 1 Pondok Indah 2 Welcome 3 Millie's Cookies 4 LisaNova 5 RFA Thanks 6 Thanks for your help on Gladys 7 3RR 8 Suite101.com 9 Spanish Gibraltarians 10 Colchester Bus Station 11 Suite101.com AfD 12 Mayfair High School 13 DYK 14 Restoring unsourced material 15 Masts for deletion 16 AFD Request 17 Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kodai road 18 Sock puppets 19 Timecop Refuses to Remove Lies 20 Taran Rampersad Deletion 21 Thank you for reporting me as a sockpuppeteer 22 Thanks a lot 23 Afd Discussion B. Biggs on my talk page 24 Barbara Biggs entry 25 Article in need of cleanup - please assist if you can 26 Just Cause 2 27 Richard Perle 28 Gladys 29 Thank you! 30 Barnstar 31 Hey 32 Afd 33 Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Able and Baker (4th nomination) 34 maybe 35 Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dickson Hill, Ontario 36 Notice Concerning an AfD on 123 Pleasant Street 37 St. Ignatius-Sacred Heart rivalry 38 Re: Added station image to 2nd page. 39 Deletion review of an AfD decision you commented on 40 Orphaned fair use image (Image:Bi0vo4b1.jpg) 41 Thanks for Keeping an Eye on Gladys! 42 Altering image source information 43 Abhijit Bhaduri 44 William Sledd 45 Afd Alan W. Clarke 46 User notice: temporary 3RR block 47 Regarding reversions[5] made on March 12, 2007 to Leeroy_Jenkins 48 Jon Bauman article 49 Your message 50 Straphanger

[edit] Pondok Indah

hey, if you can find any info on Pondok Indah, let us know. Thanks --Merbabu 04:24, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Looking. So far we're ablet to determine it's alot more than a "housing estate," but a section of a city, with even a hospital. --Oakshade 06:12, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome

Hello, Oakshade/Archive 1, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the New contributors' help page, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type {{helpme}} on your user page, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using four tildes, like this: ~~~~. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! --Geniac 15:10, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Millie's Cookies

You have taken the advert for Millie's Cookies and changed it into an article, and for that I congratulate and thank you. There has obviously been some lively discussion while I stepped away from the computer, but by now we can see something that doesn't look like a marketing pitch but like a short Wikipedia article with potential. Cheers. Ringbark 18:43, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! Appreciate your appreciation! I regret even engaging that user. Wasn't worth the trouble, but improving the article was. --Oakshade 21:51, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Uncle G is deranged, I think. --72.94.157.52 05:51, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

While I'm not in a position to determine the mental condition of this user, there was something very odd going on with this person. --Oakshade 06:49, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] LisaNova

Hello Oakshade. If you would like, I can email you copies of the LexisNexis archives related to LisaNova (it is good to also search for "Lisa Nova" as some of the reporters have added a blank space between the name). We are not beholden to on-line material, there appears to be several print articles about this person available as well. You can change back the reference formatting if you want, I am still experimenting with that. Yamaguchi先生 10:16, 9 November 2006

Hi Yamaguchi. Thank you for improving the LA Times link/reference formatting (it's better than mine, I certainly won't change it back). I wouldn't mind the LexisNexis archives of the subject. All information on any subject is helpful. Cheers. --Oakshade 15:40, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RFA Thanks

Thanks!
Thanks for your input on my (nearly recent) Request for adminship, which regretfully achived no consensus, with votes of 68/28/2. I am grateful for the input received, both positive and in opposition, and I'd like to thank you for your participation.
Georgewilliamherbert 05:34, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for your help on Gladys

I'm done with the shell of the article, and your help in formatting is very much appreciated.

I'm going to add details as I go, to include construction techniques and materials lists.

Thanks for the note on the AFD - but it seems something is wrong here - I cant see the actual AFD?

How do I defend this?

Just how you've been doing it. Full disclosure and making your case. It helped with the first one. Some users are passionate about excluding what they consider "non-notable." But that's just it, they consider it that way, not everyone else. --Oakshade 15:57, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks - we'll see if I can keep her from the slaughterhouse--James.lebinski 16:32, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Good day!

I've been grateful for your assistance and advice on the AFD and appreciate your level-headed additions to the commentary. Just saw that you reverted the unsigned change to the article too, so thanks for that. In that case though I think there may be at least one image that can be remoced as a duplicate, and the source images from the paper could probably be cut too. They were there as a notabiilty bolster from the original AFD - probably an amateur mistake on my part.

Question if you have a moment:

The nom for the AFD made an SPA assertion which I'd like to more formally refute based on his using it as a negative, especially since he should have known it to be false and has not responsed to my requests on his talk page. So the quesiton is: are you aware of a wiki-policy that could help refute this, and can you teach me how to enter the wiki-magic links everybody seems to be able to use?--James.lebinski 20:55, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

You can refer to my comment in the AfD about WP:SPA, as being SPA is by policy NOT a bad thing. Here's the comment: "...regarding the nom's added comment of this article being created by a SPA - First of all, OH REALLY? Thanks for the news, Woodward or Bernstien! Secondly, I've read WP:SPA and I really can't find any WP policy that prohibits or even dissuades members from solely creating and then focusing on one article. It even states, 'There is, of course, nothing wrong with single purpose accounts.' Of course, you might chose to be more articluate and not as tongue-in-cheek as me. --Oakshade 22:32, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 3RR

Sorry, but I've only made three reverts. I will not be reinserting the sourceless and copyvio material, and I warn you against restoring it now (in which case you will be in violation of the 3RR) or in the future without sources for the text content and express GDFL permission from the copyright holders for the external links to the videos. Simões (^talk/_contribs) 22:12, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Was never intending on violating 3RR myself, but thanks for the notice. I really have no issue with the youtube links. It was the majority of the article being deleted that's the issue. And I particularly found that deleting the specific as of yet unverified chart positions of the song article Breaking Free that would support Alicia Pan's notability under WP:MUSIC and yet choosing to leave the rest of the equally unverfied chart positions intact, very POV. --Oakshade 22:20, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I take your point and have further reduced the Breaking Free article. Simões (^talk/_contribs) 22:35, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Slash n' burn articles, all the way. Under that criteria, almost every charted song article needs heavy deleting. Please start with Limp Bizkit's Rollin' (Air Raid Vehicle). Never did care for that song. Enjoy. --Oakshade 23:12, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Suite101.com

Hi. You deleted the PROD tag from this article, noting in your edit summary, "Contesting prod. Notable and high-profile publishing company."

Could you add some references to support that assertion? Otherwise, I just see this article headed for AfD.

Thanks, --A. B. 04:35, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi. I've actually been starting to work on that. When contesting a prod, I usually assume it will go to AfD, but I always try to make changes to satisfy WP:NOTABILITY. Stay tuned. --Oakshade 06:04, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi Oakshade, we have no problems with the link you put on the article. True we'd rather have different facts ;) , but the article is fine. We have had a lot of changes since then, almost no one (neither owners nor employees) from that period is still with the company. Berger peter 22:44, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi Berger peter. I understand and would like to put in more current references. As you might be familiar with the inclusion criteria of Wikipedia, in order to avoid deletion of this article we need to establish notability of this company and one of the primary ways of establishing notability per WP:CORP or WP:WEB is the company being written about by relaible sources. Unofortunately, as un-biased as Suite101.com's articles may be, anything from that company would be considered biased in this case. If you happen to know of actual write-ups of the company, preferebly more recent, please share them (providing a web-link would be even better) and I would be happy to insert them. Do also keep in mind that the article currently appears as an advertisement. It will likely need a re-write to appear non-point of view. Cheers! --Oakshade 23:06, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Oakshade - there was quite a bit of online and print coverage between 1997-2002 (e.g. "The Globe and Mail" (Canada), Jun 2, 1998 + Jan 14, 1999 - "The Vancouver Sun", Jul 30, 1998 - "The New Zealand Herald", Jul 30, 1998 - "The Weekend (Australia) - Aug 1, 1998 - ZDNet, Netsurf and others (but the links are dead by now)). A few awards were won, including 7 awards in the Canadian Internet Awards 1997 [[1]] (but that is not an independent link). Not a lot of press coverage lately as we are in the process of re-launching. You can definitely give me a call if that helps you, the contact is on our "about us" page. -- Berger peter 19:00, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the leads. I have referenced and even posted on your website before and it seems like a notable and prolific web publishing company, but qualifying it under rather strict WP:Notability standards is proving to be a challenge. I'm off for some family holiday fun for a couple of days and I'll see what I can do when I get back. Keep in mind that Wikipedia is open source and you or anyone are free to make changes or add material, including references, to the aritlce at any time. Cheers! --Oakshade 19:06, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spanish Gibraltarians

They are as common as American kings for the reason read This --Gibnews

Interesting document, but as it's more a government decree on the legal status of residents of the location, it doesn't really demonstrate that Spanish people do not exist or have not existed in Gibraltar. I live in California and we have literally over a million "undocumented" people here, mostly from Mexico. While even their legal status as residents might be in question, as its unlikely most will ever be deported, they are generally considered del-facto Latino-Americans, just as the citizens of the southwestern United States were considered when it took over the land from Mexico in the late 1840's. --Oakshade 23:25, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

BTW, some view Bill Gates as an American king. --Oakshade 23:42, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

There is still a debate going on on this issue. The article was deleted, undeleted and deleted again (without the adequate consensus). Could you please give your opinion here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2006_December_4

Thanks alot.--Burgas00 15:18, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Colchester Bus Station

Glad we stopped that train of argument. We were even getting a little WP:POKEMON. Cheers! --Oakshade 05:42, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. Sorry, for being so curt. A diet coke binge has kept me up all night (it just turned 6am here) and starting pointless arguments in AfD discussions seems to be symptom. *twitches* -- IslaySolomon | talk 06:06, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Suite101.com AfD

An article that you have been involved in editing, Suite101.com, has been listed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Suite101.com. Please look there to see why this is, if you are interested in whether it should be deleted. Thank you. --A. B. 22:27, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your work to date on this article. I've gone ahead and nominated for deletion, but if something notable and reliable turns up, I'm happy to change my stance. --A. B. 22:27, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads-up. As the company president indicated above, they are doing a re-launch. Maybe they'll get some notable press then and the article can be re-introduced. As of now, it's a tough one. --Oakshade 03:56, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mayfair High School

I had typed up my own response and hit an edit conflict with your edit. While my edit was a near overlap with yours, it sounds much better coming from someone else. Your support of these standards makes fighting these AfDs so much more productive. Thanks again for your support! I'm sure we'll meet again in future school AfDs. Alansohn 06:46, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

oh, heh. Didn't mean to inturrupt your response. Sorry 'bout that. I was quite amazed by that user's comment and was wondering what color the sky was on his plannet. (Gender-specified because the user indentified themself as male on user page). --Oakshade 06:51, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

On November 26, 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Slippery rail, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Blnguyen (bananabucket) 00:13, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

• Excellent! Thanks for letting me know and inflating my ego! --Oakshade 00:15, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Restoring unsourced material

I recall going through this with you before, but please do not restore unsourced content to an article without giving it a reliable source (such as what you did at Carlsbad grimple). Additionally, (though this has also been pointed out before), policies and guidelines such was WP:V, WP:CITE, and WP:RS are not suspended while an article is undergoing an AFD discussion. Simões (^talk/_contribs) 08:51, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

I consider the Urband Dictionary a reliable source. But thanks for the opinion. --Oakshade 16:37, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Masts for deletion

Hello. As the closing admin, I'm notifying the most active contributors to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/University of North Carolina Tower Chapel Hill, which has now been closed, in case they want to take any action about it. Best, Sandstein 12:05, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] AFD Request

Hi there,

You seem to know something about the media business. Would you mind weighing in on this discussion?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Bryan_Brandenburg

Seems notable enough.

Thanks —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Stanlys212 (talk • contribs) 23:18, 3 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kodai road

I thought you might want to express your opinion on this AfD? Tubezone 20:17, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Kodaikanal is about 2 hour's drive from the Kodai Road station, see Kodaikanal and its talk page. Tubezone 23:59, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Excellent research! Thanks! --Oakshade 00:16, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sock puppets

You mistakenly added something which has nothing to do with User:Mrpainkiller7 to Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Mrpainkiller7. Just FYI. Your report needs to go on its own subpage. --Neurophyre^(talk) 05:41, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Oh dear. I though tagging it at the end of the sock puppet page was procedure. Sorry 'bout that. --Oakshade 05:43, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Timecop Refuses to Remove Lies

Hello. Tony Pierce here again. I know ... *groan*. I appreciate the help that you gave me last night, so I was hoping for just one more bit of advice. In the comment where timecop posted my resume, which was later removed (thank you so much for your help on that), a libelous lie still remains, that I haven't held a job for more than a year. Although I'd normally chalk that one up to "whatevs" I got an email today from a friend who followed the Digg link to the story and then to the discussion and said "you haven't had a job for more than a year?" Unfortunately I can't have those sorts of blatant lies being linked (indirectly) from Digg. So I wrote on timecop's talk page, explained the situation and he refuses to take that lie down, or the less important, but still just as false lie that I call myself the Blogfather. I invited him to go to my links page type "blogfather" into the search box in the middle and click the radio button that says tonypierce.com but he refused to even though every time i mention "blogfather" I either correct people who call me that or say that the real Blogfather is the deplorable (politically - my opinion) Instapundit.

I never asked to be on Wikipedia. I never asked for this drama on this weird AfD, and now a front page Digg article is two clicks away from some bs that I cant hold down a job and that I think of myself as some blogfather. I am a professional blogger, what is said about me online actually affects my livelihood. Anyways, I said all of this on this person's talk page, because it looks like they were the one who removed the link to my resume (which clearly states that I have held several jobs for more than one year - it was just a super crappilly-formated resume ugh). But I have no idea if that's the correct person to ask.

Finally, doesn't Wikipedia have a rule against lying about people and keeping the lie up there after being informed and proved-to that it's a lie? Certainly there must be something. Although I've gotten a fair amount of press in the past, never have I had flat out lies about my employment history floated out on the web, let alone indirectly linked to by something as powerful as Digg, which is why at this point I feel like this should be rectified immediately.

I thank you again for your time and effort, and since I am supposedly on vacation with my family, would you mind replying to this here since my IP changes every time my computer shuts down. thanks.

I left a comment about this on User talk:MONGO's page. The responded that they'll lock the AfD page once the AfD is done (I think 5 days from the start of the AfD is procedure). Although I'm not an administrator, I'll ensure this is done.

In the AfD, I commented on the lie under the user's comment. As for requesting this user to remove the wrong information, that likely won't get anywhere as that user and his minions have a history of proudly causing trouble and has been blocked in the past.

I'm sorry that you're having this trouble. Unfortunately you're learning first hand of two aspects of the dark side of Wikipedia; Indiscriminate deletionism and trolling. Do keep in mind we're not all like that, although sometimes it feels like us earthlings are in the minority. --Oakshade 07:46, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks so much for your quick help. It's weird that Wikipedia would allow such bizarre behavior. I am all for freedom, so I can respect keeping troublemaking editors, but to also allow the deletion of entries because of the field that some of us are in goes against that very same freedom. With people like you and many of the others who I've read - including those who have voted against me - I trust that Wikipedia will iron out its problems. Nothing's perfect. Nowhere is idyllic. But for as young as Wikipedia is, it's way ahead of the game. Again, much thanks. 75.200.116.69 08:05, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Taran Rampersad Deletion

I spent a few moments today on my User:TaranRampersad user page and made the Taran Rampersad article more informative. I don't care whether the page is deleted or not, but I would like to see it deleted for the right reasons - not for lack of effort which was a few minutes in Google. . Feel free to take a look and comment. I am *not* participating in the debate of the deletion of the biographical stub. --TaranRampersad 18:51, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you for reporting me as a sockpuppeteer

Unfortunatley for you I never registered and/or used sockpuppets, but I'm happy you requested a check on me because the result of the check will show some admins how pretextual your "evidences" are. And those are the same admins that will vote on your next RfA. - Femmina 12:37, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

It appears the "pretextual evidence" was quite accurate. But don't worry, never intended on making a RfA. BTW, Butholer? lol! --Oakshade 02:41, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Ahh, I see upon even further review at they've detemined at least one is different person. The review was valid still. --Oakshade 07:19, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Binsk2 has been blocked for a suspicious edit pattern. Jaydjenkins is clear. Butholer simply wasn't me. Please read the results of the check again. --Femmina 08:18, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Too bad, Butholer was pretty funny. --Oakshade 16:19, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks a lot

Dear Oakshade... Thank you very much for taking interest in my page and oposing deletion. (though you change your vote from Keep to Neutral but I respect you and your thoughts.) Unfortunately I am not a notable person, so that page should be deleted. Anyways thank you. Mubashirzaidi 5:00, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Afd Discussion B. Biggs on my talk page

Please refer to my talk page as I have updated it. Alan.ca 08:53, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Barbara Biggs entry

Hi Oakshade, Thanks for your support over my entry. It seems there's strong opposition to me doing anything with the entry, even, apparently, fixing up the concerns posted about citations etc. Since you had such a strong keep recommendation, I wondered if you'd consider getting into a neutral format. If you need a citation, you could ask. I know most of the articles written about me. If not, is there a place where I can place a request for someone who doesn't know me to fix it? Thanks Barbbiggs 14:54, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi Ms. Biggs. This AfD (an AfD, standing for "Articles for Deletion", by the way, is the proposed deletion process your article is currently going through) is confusing as deletion almost always occurs for "notability" reasons.. That is to say people who'd prefer to delete an article feel the subject doesn't satisfy the increasingly strict notability guidelines. Since the article is about a person, WP:BIO generally applies. What is clear is that the subject of you (what a strange phrase to type) is well beyond the Wikipedia threshold of notability and should be included. That is what the subject of AfDs are usually focused on, but in this case an editor is focusing on conflict of interest.

Sometimes articles have major issues with conflict of interest (you can read the official guideline regarding this here). Frequently people will write something that isn't perfectly accurate, but it suits that writer's interest. That's why Wikipedia discourages people to write articles about themselves; they run the risk of appearing biased towards the positive virtues of the subject without an objective point of view. Of course, it's not impossible for writers to write about themselves without the article looking like a vanity piece. I was recently involved in an AfD for author Kim Ponders who initiated her own article. Upon some research I found that there were several non-trivial works were about her, a primary barometer for inclusion, plus the fact the article wasn't written like a blatant vanity job, it was decided that the article should be kept. You can read that AfD here.

In the Barbara Biggs article case, we had an editor who felt that because of the conflict of interest issue, the article should've been deleted outright. I disagree with that as I feel that an AfD should primarily deal with the subject of inclusion worthiness and then afterwards deal with any conflict of interest in the article content. Right now I'm looking at the article and asking myself, "If an independent writer wrote this, would it look much different." I have to say no. It's quite innocuous, actually. I'm doing some clean-up, but it looks okay.

I honestly think this article will survive. If by any chance it doesn't, I'm seriously considering recreating it and writing in my own words as you are clearly a notable subject that would make this website better if there's an article about you. Since it would be written by someone who's not the writer and has no connection to them, there won't be a conflict of interest issue. Take care. E --Oakshade 22:49, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Oakshade. Your kind offer is much appreciated. Let's hope it won't be needed, but if so, let me know. I'll send you a book as thanks! Barbbiggs 22:59, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Dear Oakshade, I am 'Wayland' (real name, Gordon), an Oz living in Melbourne and I know Barbara Biggs personally, have read her first book and researched the matters in paper publications. I wrote the very first entry based closely on Barb's notes. Then it was deleted, with the justification given as 'used subjects material', so I rewrote it exctensively. It was deleted again, this time due to 'insuffucient citations'. OK, sez I, this is a learning experioence for me too, so I went along with it and completely rewrote it, adding many citations. Again, the complaint, 'insufficient citations'. At this point - and having seen one comment favouring deletion as saying, 'one mainstream media citation for each event is not enough' - I sort of, lost patience, see this comment[2].

Now I see that this entry has come full circle, with my own final entry being again re-posted, although 'Alan' is mentioned elsewhere as the author. I don't even know if this is the correct place for an entry of this kind - I'm a novice, more used to the printed page than the CRT.

But I am enough of a scholar (in the old-fashioned world of books) to know what constitutes 'sufficient' citation, and if information is readily available, in the public domain, then ergo, it is 'sufficient'. As a resident of Australia I know the background of the subject, the fact that her abuser (the 'barrister' mentioned) was found guilty in a court of law, and is now dead. That, from my scholastic corner, constitutes acceptable cause for naming.

Although somewhat peeved at the unnecessarily finicky nature of some 'edits', I am a believer in the concept & practice of Wikis generally, but cannot a little more weight be given to 'local' knoiwledge, and the assertions that the mainstream (hyperlinked) media quoted accurately conveys the sense of printed (vs hyerlinked) material? The very first article I created (I've only got a slight interest in editing those of others) was 'edited' within hours by a 14-year-old Singaporean who, presumably, had never heard of the subject. I found those who edited and suggested for deletion my article to be mainly US & Canadian citizens; whilst this (unfortunately trans-Pacific gulf) in itself does not disqualify them from editing an entry on a living Australian, I would have thought a simple query to Oz residents (not necessarily involved in this entry) would have been a commendably rigorous first step to esatblishing whether or not the subject's life story, and the criminal charges brought against the barrister involved, were in fact matters of public record.

I'm 'agin' sloppiness in writing, and all in favour of greater rigor being applied to the standards by which Wiki entries are judged, but please, can we not employ - as, indeed, Oakshade has done - a modicum of common sense to the debate?

Note also that, if this is done, more column-inched can be devoted to actual Wiki entries, rather than to pages of self-justifying (like this) 'history'.

In the meantime, it is at least gratifying to know that much of what I wrote has survived the edits, that someone has dug up yet more citations, and as a result - despite the rant quoted above - my faith in the Wiki has not been completely shattered.

Wayland (Gordon) - PS: can someone in the know please point a hopeless luddite in the direction of the right place for comments like this?

Hi 'Wayland' (Gorden). Scholars like you help make a resource like this website a better place. Unfortunately your lot is in the minority. I've got serious issues with the over-empowerment of people with no writing or research skills. But that's another can of worms. To answer your last question outright, a great place for this would be the Barbara Biggs Take page. This is where you can state your case for insertion of the name of the accused. I think if there is a source on the conviction you speak of, there would be no case for anyone to delete it. Now as for sources on a subject that passed away before the internet age and don't have hyperlinks to articles or books about them, this is a problem I've faced with people who want to delete articles on historic figures. They usually say something like "google count low," despite the person having been dead long before the concept of google had been thought of. You can be assured that text references are generally acceptable. Have a look under the References section of Frédéric Chopin. You will see almost all books. Old newspaper articles can be cited in the same fashion. There is more on the bureaucratic (and frequently contradicting) policy of sources here. Cheers! --Oakshade 04:34, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article in need of cleanup - please assist if you can

[edit] Just Cause 2

Oaskshade, when I said 'recreate the article if and when reliable sources are found', I didn't mean 'what the heck, just create an exact duplicate of what was deleted two days later'.

I've speedily redeleted (WP:CSD#G4) the article, and protected it to prevent further identical recreations. As the AFD close stated, when a reliable source for the game arrives, rather than a few mentions about rumours in two online game sites, let me know on my talk page and we can recreate the article then. Proto::► 00:10, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Proto, those were reliable sources. That was assumption of bad faith of all three credited reporters. --Oakshade 00:24, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

No no no no no. When I mean a reliable source, I mean from an official source (such as their website), and something more than just:

"Du skulle inte vilja berätta mer om Just Cause 2?

”Nej, ni får vänta i några månader till”, säger Christofer Sundberg. Just Cause 2 är i dagsläget planerat att släppas till PlayStation3, Xbox 360 och PC."

I am not casting any kind of aspersions on Kong magazine, which I, although not being able to speak Swedish or find any English language reference about the magazine, am sure is very notable and an established cornerstone of the Swedish game journalism industry. As far as I can tell, with the aid of an online translator, the entire content of this source is:

"Can you tell me more about Just Cause 2? No, you will have to wait some months, says Christopher Sundberg." Just Cause 2 is to be released on Playstation 3, Xbox 360 and PC."

That is not sufficient information (nowhere near), and no mention of the game has been made through any official sources, which is what reliable information means. When verifiable, reliable info comes out, the article can be created. Until then, just wait, the information will come along. Proto::► 00:40, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

I think the actaul CEO of the actual game maker is a very reliable source. I just don't understand why you don't agree with that. --Oakshade 00:47, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

CEO is a reliable source if reported in a reliable source. Even if we assume www.kong.se is a reliable source, there's not enough information. All the article could read would be "Just Cause 2 is going to be released on PS3, XBox 360 and PC", and anything more than that at this stage would be speculation. When more information, in reliable sources (such as the company's website) is released, then the article could be recreated. Nothing in Wikipedia is final, don't worry about it. Proto::► 10:06, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

There was some more info than that, ie, the scenescapes would be different with descriptions and what platforms it was being made for. Even though that's arguably not alot, this can be considered a standard "let it grow" scenario. --Oakshade 00:08, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Richard Perle

I was right behind you, and was going to revert also, but I got to thinking if reverting back to "an American" was the right thing to do. This fact is basically implied by the rest of the sentence, and this is part of the lead summary. I was planning to do just that. I went back to read the article again, and found that you had already reverted it. What are your thoughts on this, do you think that "an American" is necessary? Do you think that it's inclusion acts as a sort of 'target' for vandalism? Umeboshi 03:42, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

As for "an American", a nationality is quite a standard introduction affectation. Ie, "Thomas Pynchon is an American writer," "Max Bruch is a German Romantic composer" or "Bernardo Bertolucci is an Italian writer," etc.. Nationalities sets a basic framework of the person's background or perspective. It's not necessary, but it's quite helpful. In Mr. Perle's case, American is especially helpful to readers as he's been an important American government policy advisor, particularly in foreign affairs. I do think in this case it's particularly important to know in the introduction what nationality he has been representing. I think someone like this is a target for vandalism no matter what their nationality is. Americans don't hold the monopoly on controversial figures. As for the "jewish" adjective, you are correct that I removed a similar insertion of the word before. In that previous case, that anon user (apparently located in a large company building) was inserting the term "a jew" in the introduction to many biographies within minutes. That user has been warned (perhaps blocked?) for vandalism several times. To me, that was an anti-Semitic agenda. Introducing the subject as "a Jewish political advisor" wasn't exactly like "a Jew," but I'm sure you can understand how it reminded me of the previous case. --Oakshade 04:06, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gladys

		The Original Gladys Holiday Greeting
		For your hard work, insighful opinions and overall contribution to Gladys the Swiss Dairy Cow, I hereby award you this Thank You, along with my sincere hope that you have a wonderful holiday season. james.lebinski 18:25, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you!

Thank you for adding the images of the San Fernando Valley!! I added one to the Neighborhoods and districts of L.A. page. Thank you! ~j —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jengod (talk • contribs) 23:54, 18 December 2006 (UTC).

Thanks for the thanks! I responded on your talk page. --Oakshade 00:04, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

The second image you pointed me too is even better. Linked it up here: List of districts and neighborhoods of Los Angeles jengod 00:06, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Barnstar

It was well deserved! You're involved in some interesting articles. frummer 23:04, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hey

Hi Oakshade. Re this diff: [3] Could I ask what you are suspecting? I'm intrigued! Proto::► 12:12, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't know really. I've just never seen a reference like that attacked so fervently. It seems people really want this article deleted and will quickly discount anything that supports its inclusion. --Oakshade 01:11, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Afd

You voted at the DRV on this, wanted to point the AfD listing out if you wanted to vote there. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John C. A. Bambenek (3rd nomination) -- ChrisPerardi 15:15, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

An article that you have been involved in editing, Singil Station, has been listed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Singil Station. Please look there to see why this is, if you are interested in whether it should be deleted. Thank you. --MECU≈talk 20:59, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

I blanked out the page because there is another article called Charley's Grilled Subs with the same content. With your additional references, the Charley's article is now the better article.

KnoxSGT 19:22, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

• Interesting. I'll probably do a move once the AfD is over. --Oakshade 22:26, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Able and Baker (4th nomination)

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by your reference to "this is the 4th nomination" as a reason for keeping this article. The three previous AfDs were closed as Delete, Delete, and Keep, which to me suggests that the multiple nominations show greater precedent and consensus for deleting the article. --02:28, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] maybe

you might be intereted in my post on trains project talk page when it comes to not just deletion but.... SatuSuro 23:36, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

The exception issue was agreed earlier - as gnangara has stated - but I think the possibility this will get taken up yet again somewhere else is always on the cards - specially for countries where sources are difficult ! SatuSuro 01:53, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dickson Hill, Ontario

The Dickson Hill reference you found is for Cambridge, Ontario, but the one up for AFD is in Markham, Ontario. Regards. -- Whpq 12:41, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Notice Concerning an AfD on 123 Pleasant Street

I am providing this notice because you recently (Closed January 1, 2007) provided an opinion concerning keep/delete or other comments relating to the AfD for the article 123 Pleasant Street. This AfD had an announced result of a consensus to "Keep." A User or Users dissatisfied with this outcome have intitated a process other than the public AfD to overturn this result. The article is presently once again listed on a AfD discussion. To assure that your original comments and opinions are considered you should immediately again expression them in the Current AfD

I am providing this notice after consulting with the Admin closing the AfD. Edivorce 14:52, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] St. Ignatius-Sacred Heart rivalry

Thanks for fighting for this article. I am trying to keep it from getting it deleted too. I created it last night and one minute later it was up for deletion. I'm glad that you believe in that this is a notable rivalry and I want you to help me with this fight and I will thank you for it. Leave a messesge if you want anything at all. Thanks again. --Gndawydiak 05:34, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Added station image to 2nd page.

Thanks for the heads-up. I've added a little more detail to the paragraph about the original structure along with two references that I used in writing the California Southern Railroad article. On my initial skim of the article, San Bernardino (Amtrak station) is getting close to GA quality already. A little more fleshing out, a comprehensive lead section and more inline citations and it should get through that process easily. Slambo (Speak) 11:51, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! I'm pretty busy with real life right now, but hopefully in the next couple of days I can make some improvements. I'll let you know (and perhaps the WP:Trains project) know after more work is done. --Oakshade 18:46, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Deletion review of an AfD decision you commented on

This AfD you commented on is currently on deletion review. ~ trialsanderrors 19:16, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Orphaned fair use image (Image:Bi0vo4b1.jpg)

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[edit] Thanks for Keeping an Eye on Gladys!

I'm still not a wiki-expert, so when I saw the changes you reverted it appeared to me that there were automatically generated by someone wtiting a script, but I'm not so sure. What I don't undersrtand is how this all works - perhaps you can help me once again.

The "fact" tags seem to challenge certain items from the article that the editor felt were not substantiated in the published articles referenced. Yet there is no comment in the discussion where the editor says something like "I read the reference material and your assetion that "X" is the case is not suported"

To me this could be an indicaiton that the editor did not actually read all of the materials to come to the conclusion. So now here, here's the question what's the best way to defend?--James.lebinski 15:36, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

• It just seems like someone who wants the article deleted and is trying a differenct approach rather than having a genuine concern for accuracy. I'm guesing no matter how referenced the article is, the editor still would want the article deleted. "Fact" tags are customarily added to controversial material that is unsourced. When someone "carpet tags" an article on every sentence that is in no way controversial, that usually shows an agenda of some kind. While someone can respond and actually cite exaclty which source supports the tagged sentences, it's not really nessesary when the references provided in the article do support the content and the "carpet tagging" effort is usually viewed upon negatively. --Oakshade 17:11, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm once again grateful for your advice. Enjoy your day.--204.17.67.179 15:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Good Day Oakshade,

I made a quick change to address Shimeru's comments on sourcing, and noticed your policy-based defense o the article. Thanks again. Maybe I'll do a wikipedia logo cow next.--James.lebinski 13:33, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Altering image source information

Pleast do not alter image source information with no basis. It is considered vandalism. Thank you. --Oakshade 23:16, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Ok, no problem. By the way, have I ever done that before? --Abu badali ^(talk) 02:47, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Abhijit Bhaduri

I didn't assume bad faith -- I'm sorry if you felt otherwise. I'm an Indian, and I personally don't feel that this person is notable enough for Wikipedia as an author. If you feel otherwise, I've no problems. I hope there are no misgivings. utcursch | talk 17:12, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] William Sledd

OK, it is time we had our own wiki. I am starting a wiki just on YouTube mems etc. I need ten good sysops. I've seen your contributions and would like to appoint you as one. Please let me know by emailing me. frummer 08:28, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Afd Alan W. Clarke

Your comment that Alan W. Clarke was an attorney in several high publicity death penalty cases and a writer for the Salt Lake Tribune appears to be incorrect (on both counts), even according to the links you supply. In truth he was an attorney for some low profile medical malpractice suits and an arson defense and wrote a single guest commentary for the Trib in 2005. Please respond on the Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alan W. Clarke page if you can provide correct evidence of notability or to correct your mistakes. Irene Ringworm 02:36, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Now you're just arguing minutiae and that's not way to get to consensus. What I'm looking for is positive, independent affirmation that Clarke is notable. You have provided (a) a footnote in a court document and (b) a brief NYT article which reports on the execution of a man for which Clarke prepared a stay of execution. (Clarke is not mentioned in the article) Do you believe that these two independent references constitute notability? Irene Ringworm 09:46, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

It isn't up to you (I saying this because of your "If someone can prove me wrong I'm happy to let him stay" line), it's up to WP:CONSENSUS. There are many who feel that this person's academic and judicial work makes this person worth of inclusion. If you don't agree, that's okay. --Oakshade 09:55, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

It's not about my opinion (or your opinion either). It's about the whether or not the notability criteria are met. Here's what I read at: WP:BIO

A topic is notable if it has been the subject of secondary sources that are reliable, distinct, and independent of the subject. The depth of coverage of the subject by the source must be considered. If the depth of coverage is not substantial, then multiple independent sources should be cited to establish notability. Trivial, or incidental coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not sufficient to establish notability.

I am saying that - "Alan W. Clarke has not been the subject of secondary sources that are reliable, distinct, and independent of the subject. There is no substantial depth of coverage and no multiple independent sources exist to establish his notability." You have not given me anything (other than a NYT article that mentions a client) and a footnote in a Ninth Circuit Court Policy manual which is not substantial depth of coverage. This time please answer my question directly. Does he meet the notability criteria? If so, please explain because it seems clear to me that he does not. Irene Ringworm 10:13, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

You've touched on a serious issue I have with the relevency of the WP:BIO guideline (every other "notability" guideline for that matter). I'm not saying this is you, but very frequently I've observed a recent trend of when editors don't like an article subject that passes the letter of WP:BIO, sometimes overwhelmingly, they change their deletion argument to "Well, he/she might be the subject of multiple non-trival published works, but WP:BIO is only a guideline and not policy," therefore arbitrarily applying the guildeline to how that editor sees fit. While I respect your reverence to the guildeline, I'm increasingly seeing it as another confusing and inconsistant talking point rather than a proper "rule." --Oakshade 16:26, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

If you've got a broader view of WP:BIO than the current guideline I'm okay with that. What I can't figure out is what criteria you are using. It doesn't appear that there is enough stuff written about this guy (other than the stuff he wrote himself) to constitute a decent article. This guy fails even the most liberal notability criteria that I've seen proposed at WP:PROFTEST (also a guideline) and elsewhere. Please explain your criteria for notability so that we can come up with some sort of consensus. Irene Ringworm 20:04, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

When there's enough verifiable information on the encyclopedic subject to write a comprehensive article about it, it can be included, subject further consensus if need be. Of course articles should be well sourced documenting the content. I think a public activist like Alan W. Clarke is worthy of an article under this general standard. --Oakshade 20:42, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

You still aren't answering my question nor are you providing concrete information to support his notability. A google search of "Alan W. Clarke" and activist yields only six results [4], none of which refer to Clarke directly or indirectly as an activist. In other words, no external source (online) would refer to Alan W. Clarke as an activist. Irene Ringworm 20:56, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

I thought from the beginning that his broad academic work on his subject at numerous colleges, universities and institutes demostrate worthiness for inclusion. I know you don't agree. We're just gonig to go back and forth on this. --Oakshade 21:03, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] User notice: temporary 3RR block

Re your mail. Slightly moot now as the block has expired. For the future: if you're reverting vandalism, its better to report that and get the vandal blocked. Only if the vandalism is blatant enough for a block is reverting it immune from 3RR, though interpretations vary William M. Connolley 20:01, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jon Bauman article

OK, so, regarding Jon Bauman -- if it's not correct to label the article a copyright vio, but 95% of the article is directly copied from another source, what's the appropriate way to bring this to someone's attention? Besides rewriting it myself, which I may go ahead and do. --Jay (Histrion) (talk • contribs) 22:51, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Went ahead and pruned it. --Jay (Histrion) (talk • contribs) 23:46, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

A tag has been placed on Renetto, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done because the article seems to be about a person, group of people, band, club, company, or web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable, that is, why an article about that subject should be included in Wikipedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not assert notability may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, and if you can indicate why the subject of this article is notable, you may contest the tagging. To do this, add {{hangon}} on the top of the page (below the existing db tag) and leave a note on the article's talk page explaining your position. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would confirm its subject's notability under the guidelines.

For guidelines on specific types of articles, you may want to check out our criteria for biographies, for web sites, for bands, or for companies. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. ScorpO 02:12, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Just to clarify, As much attention as renetto may gain on youtube I do not feel he is notable enough to have an article about him. If he is people such as TheHill88 should... ScorpO 02:15, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Please take the time to check the deletion log of renetto at http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log/delete&page=Renetto , It has been deleted many times before. ScorpO 02:29, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I am fully aware of its history and it's been almost three months since the last deletion (that was deleted under very dubious circumstances [6]. The New York Times reference was from over two months after that last questionable deletion. --Oakshade 02:36, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

He has still not done anything that has made him notable. Just because New York Times references him doesn't mean he is notable. Lets just say that New York Times has a crime section in it. Every single one of those criminals is not entitled to a page on wikipedia because they appeared in the New York times. Now please, don't get me wrong, I love renetto, I love the videos he makes, He is just not notable enough for an article. ScorpO 02:41, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry I dissagree with that subjective view on "notability". That many viewers is an assertaion of notablity and not criteria for Speedy deltion. This should've gone to AfD if you felt he wasn't "notable." --Oakshade 02:43, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Looks like you won out, Although I am not happy with the admins decision. Congratulations... ScorpO 02:55, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't see this as myself "winning out." The process is the only "winner." There are proper methods of stating your opinion and speedy deleting an article that's not criteria for such is not one of them. --Oakshade 02:57, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Removed comment that was previously here. The behaviour I showed is not up to Wikipedia's standards. Sorry. ScorpO 05:39, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I respect your stipulation that you didn't delete the article because of WP:IDONTLIKEIT and struck that comment in the DRV. --Oakshade 06:19, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I am just wondering seeing as you went to the trouble of contesting its deletion why hasn't it been recreated yet? ScorpO 07:33, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

These DRVs usually go on for a few days for other editors input. An admin will close the discussion and (hopeuflly) act on consensus. --Oakshade 07:36, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Your message

I have no idea what you're talking about; the tone of your message is petty and unpleasant, though, so I shan't bother trying to work out what you're talking about. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 10:30, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh my! I wasn't expecting that tone. It was for me an unpleasant surprise after you claimed you shouldn't have an article about yourself as a case to delete another and then learn you actually did have an article about yourself and knew it and supported it. I was hoping for some reconciliation of the dichotomy of stances. But, alas... --Oakshade 16:11, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Straphanger

Well, I voted for keep. I'm not yet caffeinated to the point of total coherence this morning, so if there is anything else I could say thats persuasive, point it out to me. Cornell Rockey 13:39, 19 March 2007 (UTC)