Talk:Oiran
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[edit] Tayu vs. oiran
The Japanese article for oiran states 「吉原の太夫を指している語であったが、太夫を含む高位の遊女を花魁と称するようになっていった。」, ie. that "tayu" (which means about a million different things) were originally restricted to Yoshiwara but the name was adopted to refer to the highest rank of oiran anywhere. Oiran's more generic and has been around longer, so it's the better name for this article. Jpatokal 10:25, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
According to what I've been reading, Tayu were registered in all three main pleasure districts, not just Yoshiwara (I'm doing further research to verify this). However, I will agree that Oiran is a better title for the article because it is a more generic term, whereas Tayu was a very specific rank. It is frustrating, however, that 'yujo' does not have its own article since the term encompasses all ranks of courtesans/prostitutes.
69.108.139.170 17:54, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] High importance?
This article was moved up to High Importance, but I don't think it is really justified. The Oiran is a somewhat obscure figure, and certainly not of world-wide notability the way High Importance articles are considered.
Any justification for High Importance? Otherwise I will lower it.
MightyAtom 03:35, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
Well, personally I think it's pretty important, but then this subject fascinates me. Oiran, tayu, geisha and the artistic outpouring from the pleasure districts of Japan really did more to shape Japan than many people want to recognize because of the political incorrectness of it all. It's also very difficult, in my opinion, to have a true understanding of Geisha without having a grasp on the courtesans.
I really think this article needs some work. Tayu and Oiran are used interchangably here, and technically they are not the same thing. Oiran as a specific class of courtesan didn't even exist until -after- the last Tayu retired in 1761. Oiran and Tayu were both the highest class of courtesan but from different periods of time. There are enough differences between the two that if one wanted to be nitpicky, it could be argued that each deserves its own article.
Kookykrisp 05:45, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
- I hope that you can improve the article! It definitely needs work, but I don't know enough about it to do the job it deserves. Still, to the world at large the Oiran is not on the same level of importance/familiarity as the Geisha. I am going to drop this to a lower-level of importance. MightyAtom 03:39, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Ukiyo-e print a male kabuki actor?
The ukiyo-e print illustrating this article certainly looks like a depiction of a male to me. Is it not rather a picture of an actor playing an oiran on stage rather than an actual oiran? If so, perhaps the caption should be altered.Writtenright 02:24, 1 March 2007 (UTC)Writtenright
- You are probably right. It was difficult to find a non-copywrited image for this article, so this is what was used. Feel free to alter the caption. MightyAtom 03:38, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
