Talk:Oscar de la Hoya
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Pernell Whitaker (W 12)|(A fight which many onlookers thought he had lost)
What kind of comment is this? Why don't you just say that it was a controversial decision. Not that it was... most observers were comfortable with that decision, even if Whitaker complained about it.
Why not make a similar comment about the Ike Quartey fight, which was also very close, with several knockdowns by each fighter, and the outcome not decided until the 12th round.
Your comments about the "controversial majority-decision loss to Félix Trinidad" was much more reasonable, but your comments on the "two decision losses to Shane Mosley" lacked the same punch, since these were controversial as well.
I'm not sure how you consider Bernard Hopkins to be "more technical." Many people think Oscar was winning the fight until he took a rib-breaking shot to the body. Simply listing this as a "KO" makes it sound like he was knocked into unconsciousness, when he was not.
I'm not sure how you conclude that Vargas was Oscar's "nemesis." The same was said for Genaro Hernandez, who's career also went nowhere after he lost.
It might be interesting to mention that when Oscar fought Felix Sturm, he won virtually every round, which shows just how great a boxer Oscar really is.
Also, rather than saying that Oscar fought "much better than expected" against Ricardo Mayorga, why not just say that he dominated this champion and destroyed him in 6. The expectation that Oscar might not have been as good as before is an opinion... perhaps your opinion, and not something that should appear on Wikipedia.
Also, how is offering a fighter $250,000 to sign a contract a "controversy?"
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[edit] Spelling of surname?
What is the correct spelling of his surname? Is it De La Hoya, De la Hoya or de la Hoya? -- Hey Teacher 15:16, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
- de la Hoya. Spanish names don't capitalize "de", "del", "de la". --Vizcarra 00:01, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
Thank you (sorry for the late reply). Should the article be changed then? He is referred to as "De La Hoya" almost all the time (except for the name of the article). -- Hey Teacher 08:59, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] At start of sentence
_ _ I've restored the caps wherever the surname begins a sentence. That's what's done in English (and probably every alphabetic language that uses upper and lower cases), with the arguable exception of trademarks like iPod, which have the second letter upper case. Lower case was invented to permit certain things to stand out:
- SHOUTING,
- important words in titles of works,
- first word of sentence (to aid perception of the sentence as a visual unit, which helps the unconscious task of grasping, sentence by sentence, the meaning of what's read; that's also what the period or full stop and other end of sentence punctuation are for), and
- proper names (quickly alerting readers that writers mentioning Frank don't necessarily have a position on his frankness and those mentioning Charity don't necessarily see her as the embodiment of either loving kindness or demeaning favors).
Different languages do have their own rules about small words that are part of a name (sometimes flexible or complicated rules; English says "John of Gaunt" while its adaptation of Irish Gaelic names goes "O'Shaughnessy", but there's no logic to keeping the lower case at the start of the sentence: can you doubt that the Spanish translation of the sentence
- Of mice and men, much can be said.
begins "De" rather than "de"?
View it this way: upper casing that normally appears in a given name is unconditional; lower casing that normally appears is simply an exception to unconditional upper casing, but is not unconditional lower casing. The marquis screams
- DE LA HOYA FIGHTS TONITE!
not
- dE lA HOYA FIGHTS TONITE!
nor even
- de la HOYA FIGHTS TONITE!
and the D goes upper case at the start of a sentence or title of a work.
_ _ If you really can't stand to see the capital at the start of his surname, i suggest (beyond getting yourself some therapy), you can (once recasting the sentence with "He" more often gets excessive) move "de la Hoya" later in the sentence. Think about it: if you were told (a rule that some insist on) that you can't start sentences with digits, would you start them instead with, on one hand,
- Two hundred fifty thousand troops arrived ...
and
- Nineteen ninety-four's elections brought ...
or, on the other hand, with
- The arrival of 250,000 troops ...
and
- The 1994 elections brought ...
--Jerzy•t 17:05, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Championship Boxes
Anychance someone with a higher level of skill then me could edit this article so those championship boxes dont fill up so much space? If you look at other boxers like Lennox Lewis, they have pages where the championship's section is very sleek and tightly fit together, Can someone do that here? it would really clean up the page I think. Midusunknown 05:57, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
-
- Thanks Rrp1972, looks much better! Midusunknown 08:57, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
- not a problem! Rrp1972 16:13, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Number of Knockouts
After the Mayorga fight, he has 30 knockouts. While the second Chavez fight was indeed a case off Chavez quitting on the stool, that is still considered a technical knockout and so is reflected as such in de la Hoya's record. MKil 13:05, 11 May 2006 (UTC)MKil
I tend to agree with MKil, but boxingrec.com/HBO/and others have Chavez listed as RTD, i am sure that means retired not retarded, although HBO lists his total KOs at 30 because of this. So we can compromise and leave the stats at W RTD 8 like everyone else and the KOs at 30--Richard Pérez 19:38, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
RTD is used in Europe more than in America, and since Boxrec.com is run by a Brit, it is starting to use RTDs for when a fighter retires on his stool between rounds. As an editor there, I'm not thrilled by that, but it's not my site and I don't set the rules. In the U.S. when a fighter retires between rounds it is almost always counted as a TKO. Ring magazine, for instance, lists it as such. In the interests of averting an edit war, I think it's a wise compromise to leave the Chavez TKO as an RTD but to count it towards de la Hoya's total knockouts. MKil 21:06, 16 May 2006 (UTC)MKil
This is a very boring article about de la Hoya. The author should add more details in his childhood.
Oscar is NOT the only six division champion in boxing history.
If your opponent quits its a TKO. Roberto Duran vs. Ray Leonard, Sonny Liston vs. Cassius Clay/Ali for example.-Jan/31/07
[edit] de la Hoya vs. De La Hoya
Shouldn't it be De La Hoya, with capital letters? Every website, every fight that I've ever seen that has his name has it with capital letters.-1/11/07 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.247.5.216 (talk) 02:25, January 12, 2007
- I agree that "de la" should be capitalized. First, Oscar is an American, so Spanish grammatical conventions concerning the non-capitalization of "de", "del" or "de la" are not dispositive. The fact is that Oscar himself spells his name "De La Hoya" [1]. That should decide the issue itself. Furthermore, the mainstream media sources are consistent in referring to him as "De La Hoya": [2] [3] [4] [5]. In short, both Oscar and the mainstream media capitalize the "De La" portion of his surname. I don't see any basis for deviation.-PassionoftheDamon 17:11, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Inconsistencies with article...
...Mentions ODLH status as one of boxings "All-Time Greats" but does not do so for other equally, if not more accomplished fighters of lesser commercial exposure. Also adds note describing controversial victory over Pernell Whitaker & loss to Felix Trinidad but not his victory over Ike Quartey. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.193.80.173 (talk) 19:54, 21 March 2007 (UTC).
