Talk:Pirahã people
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[edit] Big Review Needed
I belive this article is far out of date. Anthropologist Marco Antônio Teixeira Gonçalves has studied the Pirahã people, focusing on mythology, cosmology, kinship, and social structure. The main refference is his ethnography, but he has over a dozen published works about the Pirahã.
- GONÇALVES, Marco Antônio Teixeira. O mundo inacabado : ação e criação em uma cosmologia amazônica. Rio de Janeiro : UFRJ, 2001.
a summary of his findings are on: http://www.socioambiental.org/pib/epi/piraha/piraha.shtm (in portuguese. Maybe someone could re-work it into an article
--Rogeriobwp 19:47, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Talk Merged from Talk:Piraha tribe
This page has similar content and aim as Pirahã. I believe Pirahã (see paper linked from there) is the prefered name for the tribe, not Piraha. I can't find anything saying that exactly, but more sites, including SIL website, (Archive of) U. Pittsburg site and ISA site on Pirahã, appear to use Pirahã instead of Piraha. -- Mairi 22:00, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- Agreed, I wasn't aware there was already an article when I worked on this last week. --Zerbey 02:04, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- According to the source referenced in the article, they do not call themselves Pirahã but Hi'aiti'ihi'. However Pirahã seems to be the name most people know them by. Frankie Roberto 11:07, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
Someone has added yet another redundant article Piraha, from which I'm merging material into Pirahã. I suspect the a-tilde is causing people trouble when searching. --Jim Henry 20:47, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)
The "follow no religous beliefs" seems to be an oversimplification or outright falsehood, based on Everett's article, which mentions in passing several times the Pirahã's belief in a spirit world and particular spirits. Can anyone verify further details? --Jim Henry 20:58, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- Would it be better to say they have no organised religion? --Zerbey 21:00, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- "They have no 'individual or collective memory of more than two generations past', no drawing or other art, no fiction and 'no creation stories or myths'."[1]
The article on "Globe And Mail" is no longer (2004/12/2) available w/o purchase. It should be removed/replaced with equivalent. Pavel Vozenilek
[edit] Lack of written language
The fact that "the [Pirahã] language is unwritten" is not a "unique trait" at all. Among Native American tribes, only the Maya seem to have developed a fully functional writing system. I think we should avoid the tendency (obvious in this article and in certain academic works) to exaggerate the (supposedly) exotic characteristics of this tribe. --Kawina 15:46, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
- I agree, and have deleted this statement from the article. Maybe it should be added back in another part of the article, though....) --Jim Henry | Talk 05:14, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Contradiction
I've read these contradictory statements elsewhere and am reading them here too, without reference to the fact that there is a contradiction. Allegedly, the Pirahã do not have any mythology, and according to New Scientist magazine, they don't even have the capacity within the language to describe "tales about imaginary beings"[2], yet their limited artwork is "used primarily to ward off evil spirits." What?
- from Daniel Everett's paper "Cultural Constraints on Grammar and Cognition in Pirahã: Another Look at the Design Features of Human Language":
- "One morning in 1980, during a nine-month stay among the Pirahã, I awoke to yelling, crying, and whooping near the river's edge, about fifty feet from where I was trying vainly to sleep. I went to the crowd, which included nearly every man, woman, and child in the village. They were all pointing across the river and some were crying, some were yelling, and all were acting as though what they were seeing was very frightening. I looked across the river, but I could see nothing. I asked them what they were fussing about. One man answered increduously, 'Can't you see him there?' 'I see nothing. What are you talking about?' was my response. 'There, on the other bank, on that small strip of beach, is 'igagaí a mean not-blood-one.' There was nothing on the other side. But the people insisted that he was there in full view. This experience has haunted me ever since. It underscored how spirits are not merely fictional characters to the Pirahã, but concrete experiences."
- basically I think the distinction is that fiction is not the same thing as believing in spirits. Whatever modern western sensibilities may claim ;)--Krsont 00:47, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
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- My understanding [3] is that they have no creation myth but do have a complex "demonology" [4] . As I've said this (and an awful lot of other aspects of their culture) springs from their "liminality" - their living for the day. They don't require complex numbers or tenses because it really isn't needed. Equally if you live in the present then you have no need for a creation myth as the world "just is" - it has always been there and will always be there. Equally their belief in spirits emerges from the fact that when things pass out of their immediate experience, they have effectively ceased to exist and their belief in parallel universes explains where they have gone. Equally if, for example, a panther can be heard but not seen it could be a spirit from another world. They don't require the ability to tell tales about such creatures as they "just are" - a natural extension to their world (in the example above they know what they are seeing but cannot really describe it to Everett, who sees nothing). I think the idea that you have ti live with them and learn their culture before you can properly learn their language may also be conncected in here somehow. (Emperor 18:08, 5 April 2006 (UTC))
[edit] Origin of name
Where does the name Pirahã come from? It's apparently not a word in their language, so I assume it must their name from a neighboring group? Which one? Rigadoun 16:44, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Neutrality and Cultural Elitism
Just a note about the language used in this article:
First, the idea that the Pirahã people are "incapable of learning numeracy" is debatable. Prof. Peter Gordon at Columbia U. posits this claim, but Prof. Daniel Everett argues that the Pirahã are capable of counting; they just choose not to do so.
Second, I believe it's unfair and elitist to refer to their artwork as "crude". Definitions of aesthetics vary from culture to culture, so I think that using the word "crude" may be a bit of a judgement or labeling rather than a description. Can we get a picture of some of their artwork to post in the article and simply state that they have little artwork and it's mainly used to ward off evil spirits?
[edit] Format
I am sorry if I am mistaken, or if this is seen as offencive, but I am suggesting that the article be re formatted to appear more like an encyclopedia article rather than a list. It should also include a larger section about the Pirahã's lack of numeric words, or a numeric system at all.--Whytecypress 23:58, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Pronunciation
Could someone "in the know" provide an IPA spelling of "Pirahã"? I'd like to know how to pronounce the name. Simões (talk/contribs) 16:00, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Another contradiction
This article states near the beginning that (presumably because of the low numbers) the culture is in danger of extinction, but the article on Pirahã language#Miscellaneous states that because of the importance placed on the language and near absence of bilingualism, that the language is in no immediate danger. It seems unlikely that the culture would go extinct but the language thrive, since (at least in this article) it seems most of the unique cultural characteristics are coded in the language. Neither claim has a footnote, how in danger is this cultural/linguistic group of extinction? Rigadoun (talk) 17:39, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
