Talk:Polabian Slavs
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I am confused about the title of this article and want to clarify some concepts before I begin adding information about these tribes. While this article describes all of the Slavs west of the Oder as "Polabians", Eric Christiansen's The Northern Crusades describes the Polabians as merely one tribe among many. Christiansen, an Englishman of Danish ancestry, writes that
From the Saxon and Danish frontiers to the Trave were settled the Wagrians, and from the Trave to the Warnow the Abotrites – two kindred peoples loosely united with the Polabians of the Elbe basin under one dominant dynasty [the house of de:Niklot]. From the Warnow to Rügen, round the Oder mouths and up the Peene, was an unamalgamated group of tribes which was given the collective name of Liutizians or Wilzians – 'terrible' or 'wolf' people; the northernmost, on Rügen and the coast facing, were the Rugians or Rani. The languages spoken by the Abotrites and Liutizians were somewhat different from those of their Sorb and Lusatian neighbors to the south, and are classified as the West Lechic; the East Lechic include the languages of the Poles and the nation which people the remainder of the West Slav coastland from the Oder eastwards to the Vistula – the Pomeranians, or 'dwellers on the shore', later differentiated towards Danzig by the names Pomerelian and Cassubian ('shaggy-coatmen')" (p. 27).
Christiansen later clarifies the main settlements of each tribe: the Wagrians at Oldenburg (Holstein), the Polabians at Ratzeburg, the Abotrites at Veligrad (Mecklenburg) and Rostock, the Rugians at Arkona and Garz, the Liutizians at Demmin (later controlled by the Pomeranians), and the Pomeranians at Szczecin.
The German Polaben article describes the Polabians as merely a tribe of the Abotrite confederation/alliance, which matches Christiansen's text. I might be mistaken as I do not speak Polish, but it seems to me that in Poland the Slavs west of the Oder are generally known as "Polabian Slavs" (the general German concept of "Wends"), while in Germany there is a differentiation between the Wenden/Elbslawen (Wends / "Elbe Slavs") and the "Polabians proper" (the aforementioned tribe living near the Wagrians and the Abotrites). The Polabian language, on the other hand, seems to include the dialects of the aforementioned tribes (except for the Pomeranians) under one blanket term, even in German, and is fine where it is.
With that in mind, I suggest that the article be retitled Elbe Slavs, a term used in English, to avoid confusion between the general Polabian term and the individual Polabian tribe. Alternately, it could be merged with Wends. Olessi 00:42, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
(UTC)
- Elbe Slavs is a neologism, and quite offensive at that. The Slavic name for the river is not Elbe but Laba. These Slavs are known as Polabian in their own language, in other Slavic languages, and in scholarly literature. I may refer you to the article and map in the Great Soviet Encyclopaedia, available online here. According to this authoritative source, the Polabian Slavs is a general name for all Slavs formerly living between the Elbe and the Oder. Their three main tribes were Lusatian Sorbs, Veleti (lyutichi) and Obodrites (bodrichi). --Ghirla -трёп- 15:34, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- "Polabian" indeed usually refers to the "Polabian Slavs" as a general term, but it also refers in Germanic sources to a specific tribe of the Abotrite alliance, the Polaborum. On the external map, this would be the Połabianie, aka Polabingi (Adam of Bremen) or Polabi Helmold von Bosau). Their main settlement was Ratzeburg (Lauenburg), named after their chief Ratibor. A related tribe living to their south was the Draväner (Dravänopolaben, Drawenoslawen) in the Drawehn region (Drzewianie) in Lüchow-Dannenberg, Lower Saxony. These Slavs are what inspired the Hanoverian Wendland. Henry the Lion eventually defeated the Polabians and Draväner, establishing the County of Ratzeburg with Heinrich von Badewide.Olessi 00:17, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
- While I can understand keeping this article at its present name as it is the most commonly used term, I am willing to add information about how "Polabian" also has a different meaning in German. Olessi 00:17, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
