Talk:Pornography

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Before complaining about article content, please read: Wikipedia is not censored.

Archives
1. 2001 - July 2005 2. August 2005 - June 2006 3. July 2006 - October 2006

This article is a former featured article candidate. Please view its sub-page to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive.

[edit] Why my link was removed ?

I was add link to site http://www.fleshka.net , i think it is a great site , on this site i found more 250000 pornography galleries in all niches . Thanks

Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a repository of links. This article is not meant to be a list of places to find porn, but rather an encyclopedia discussion of pornography.--Bibliophylax 16:38, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please Add This

I think the page is protected. I want to add the term Carnography under See also. Would someone be able to add it? 156.34.222.231 13:42, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Done. -- Beland 02:14, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks 156.34.220.66 19:13, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Revise "Religions Objections"

Here's the current contents of "Religious Objections."

Fundamentalist religious tradition generally limits sexual intercourse to the express function of procreation. Thus, sexual pleasure or sex oriented entertainment, as well as lack of modesty, are usually considered immoral by conservative religious sects. Additionally, many religious groups view pornography as contributing to 'immoral' behavior in society.

Since I believe a very significant portion of opposition to pornography is religiously- or morally-informed, the sparse, stereotyping treatment here surprises me. I see that this was discussed recently (on the most recent archive page), but no significant action was taken.

Here's what I would recommend, combining text from the current article, the talk page, and my own writing (as a new user, I can't make the change myself):

Religious groups often discourage their members from viewing or reading pornography, and support legislation restricting its publication. These positions derive from broader religious views about sexuality. In some religious traditions, for example, sexual intercourse is limited to the express function of procreation. Thus, sexual pleasure or sex-oriented entertainment, as well as lack of modesty, are considered immoral. Other religions do not find sexual pleasure immoral, but see sex as a sacred, godly, highly-pleasurable activity that is only to be enjoyed with one's spouse. These traditions do not condemn sexual pleasure in and of itself, but they impose severe limitations on the circumstances under which sexual pleasure may be properly experienced. Pornography in this view is seen as the secularization of something sacred, and a violation of spouses' intimate relationship.

In addition to expressing concerns about violating sexual morality, some religions take an anti-pornography stance claiming that viewing pornography is addictive, leading to self-destructive behavior. Proponents of this view compare pornography addiction to alcoholism, both in asserting the seriousness of the problem and in developing treatment methods.

I would link to pornography addiction in the second paragraph, and add that link to the "see also" section at the bottom of the article.

I've removed the word "fundamentalist" in the interest of NPOV. It's heavy with connotation. On the one hand, anyone who espouses this view is labeled as out-of-touch or extremist. On the other hand, it implies that those who have different religious views on sexuality are less "fundamental" than those who take this particular view. I think we can just say "some religions" without unnecessarily labeling them.

These changes should probably also be merged into the main article -- Anti-pornography movement.

-- Smith.dan 22:57, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Concerns about children using Wikipedia and finding porn

Wikipedia, so many underaged children are currently viewing wikipedia on educational purposes such as science and literature. I strongly condemn any pornography in this encyclopdia site. Even if you need to put them for particular purposes, don't you think the external link might be harmful. Young people are always curious about these things despite the number of content warnings you have labelled. They are addictive and unnecessary. {[from anonymously]} —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.162.123.244 (talk) 22:51, 4 February 2007 (UTC).

Ultimately it is the responsibility of parents to supervise their children's computer use and prevent them from visiting certain sites if they think it is necessary. (I am a parent myself.) Personally I don't see anything harmful to children in the current version. As for porn being addictive, that is subject to debate, to say the least. Please see The Science of Pornography Addiction by Daniel Linz, Ph.D. Rosemary Amey 18:49, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

5 year olds want to look for Pokemon not Porn-o. What do we have to be worried about. - BigFrank101

Concerns that I was directly spammed on a baby blog directly to this wikipedia link. So while I am obviously supervising the computer - wikipedia and pornography is searching ME OUT on a BABY BLOG. I have a background in internet law and I realize some information can not be controlled, but you need to control this site. The inforatmation is too widely regarded as accurate - and there are too many things that are ending up to be false. The site is quickly losing credibility, which is sad.

If you want the IP of the person who spammed - I'll send it.

In fact, here you go:

216.177.165.10
65.73.204.61

Wikipedia spammers!

[edit] LEx

There has also been a recent increase in sex crimes in Japan which parallels an increase in all crimes. Some in Japan have blamed the increase on violent pornography and indeed, some sex offenders report having been inspired by themes in commonly available pornography. The counter argument is that some sex offenders will likely use any defense they can to lower their culpability.

wheres the refrence? Im deleting this because it need sources patrick.doyle@csun.edu longshanks@aol.com pdoyle@fullerton.edu

[edit] lex

Apparently I can now edit the page. Made my suggested changes myself. -- Smith.dan 13:46, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Can pornography be performed?

Pornography may use any of a variety of media — printed literature, photos, sculpture, drawing, painting, animation, sound recording, film, video, or video game, and may even be performed in a live venue, possibly in front of a live audience.

I question the notion that pornography "may even be performed". The word root -graphos means that pornography must be in the form of some distributable medium. The subject it depicts may be (almost always is) a live performance, but IMO one cannot perform pornography. That does not rule out that that a live performer's emulation of sex acts could be described as pornographic (adjective) i.e. "like pornography". (cuddlyable3)84.210.139.189 18:29, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I believe you are correct. Because the word is subjective in interpretation, many people think that some things that they view as being pornographic. Accurate though, is as you say, that live sex performers could not be considered to be pornographic, although the recording of the event might be termed by some to be pornographic. Atom 19:06, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

This seems to be a gray area between the technical definition (as cited above), and common useage. There is certainly a long history of "live sex shows" which feature "lascivious" performances designed to tittilate and arouse the audience. These might well qualify as pornographic performances for that reason. Doc Tropics 19:13, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but the reason that they are not advertised as pornographic performances is because they are not recorded. A lascivious performance designed to tittilate and arouse is not pornographic, the video tape of the performance may be. Only a depiction of the event can be pornographic the behaviour itself may be erotic, obscene or lascivious, but not pornographic.

Merriam Webster

Etymology: Greek pornographos, adjective, writing about prostitutes, from pornE prostitute + graphein to write; akin to Greek pernanai to sell, poros journey -- more at FARE, CARVE 1 : the depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement 2 : material (as books or a photograph) that depicts erotic behavior and is intended to cause sexual excitement 3 : the depiction of acts in a sensational manner so as to arouse a quick intense emotional reaction <the pornography of violence>

Atom 20:33, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Heh. I stand corrected; you are absolutely right. Also, I've added your name to my list of "Editors I won't disagree with, because they will kick my metaphorical butt in a debate".Doc Tropics 20:46, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] practice makes perfect

i read somewhere, in a sex/health magizine (no not a porn mag) that statistcally those who watch porn, and masterbate more often are better at sex, i guess from "learning from example", does anyone know if this is true. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.15.226.37 (talk • contribs) date.

Most sexual acts in pornography are over done, and not 'realistic', in the sense that more often than not, underwear doesn't rip off that fast, or that way. Pornography is merely for entertainment, and that sexual education videos should instead be used for learning, instead of something that was done mainly for entertainment and, quite frankly, something to jack off to instead of reproducing in reallife. Disinclination 07:33, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I would suspect this is a case of correlation rather than causation. Rosemary Amey 00:55, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I'm curious.

How come an article on pornography doesn't have a pornographic picture to illustrate it? Xiner (talk, email) 17:49, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

It does, as you'll see the rack of movies along there. We don't need naked pictures of people doing it, irregardless if Wikipedia is censored for minors. This is about the industry and what it is. If you wanna see what happens IN a pornography, check out sexual intercourse or something similar to that. Disinclination 21:57, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough. Xiner (talk, email) 22:03, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Okay. Well. I had no idea HOW the original pornography image was removed, but I found it. Still unsure of why the Pompeii image was added. Going to find the reason as to why, and maybe put it to a better place (aesthetically pleasing), and shrink it down as well. Disinclination 23:37, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I like vaginas

Someone has written grafittis such as "I like vaginas" in this article. So I hope that someone can correct it as soon as possible? I like vaginas. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.131.36.144 (talk) 23:13, 11 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Removed a sentence

Because it seemed extraneous, I removed the following sentence from the topic "Production and distribution by region":

"Pornography is now a major part of life for some, with many couples swearing by it to relieve themselves sexually."

ChrisWinter 04:15, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

The history section of this article has been vandalized. I am unable to repair it. 59.167.130.181 04:59, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Censoring the pornography stand

Is there anyway to censor out the stand, not completely remove it, rather, blur some of the images out casually? Many kids at my school seem to love getting legitimate sites blocked. Hell keep the stand and boobies, just blur out the penis/vagina parts on the stand, and their aren't many to begin with. People may argue that this is extremist religious censorship, rather, I plea on behalf of the people at my school, The Administration will simply block the complete site, due to their horrid policies and slacker motto. 76.184.219.16 22:59, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] this article is rubbish

This could be a very interesting article if it didnt read like it was put together by some very strange individuals. lock it up and get some people with intelligence on it please. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.243.220.42 (talk) 02:11, 1 February 2007 (UTC).

What parts in particular do you refer to? -iopq 05:47, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Included Media Content "Stag Video"

The stag video doesn't play anything. This threw me for a loop so I downloaded every codec for each direct play viewer, and Wiki Browser and still got nothing. This depressed me because I would like to upload some video content to wikipedia, and thought I couldn't view it. As a last ditch effort I tried one of the other wikimedia video files. Lo and behold it played in each of the players.

Long story to quick point: If the stage video doesn't work or has been censored, can it be removed? If it shouldn't be removed, can a working version be uploaded? Having a link that goes nowhere is a tad disturbing, especially to newbies and/or "old porn" addicts. :p

Ara Pelodi 04:01, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] italian photo

Hallo, I want a your opinion about the Pornography on italian wiki [1]: what do you think about the photo "porno.jpg"? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.15.100.179 (talk) 22:51, 4 February 2007 (UTC).

What difference does the opinion of contributors here make? Unless you're suggesting that the picture be used in this article, I really don't see what useful comment can be added by us. --Robert Merkel 05:56, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] By and for women

Anyone else think the Village Voice quote in the 'pornography by and for women' section is kind of irrelevant? I guess I can see how it might not be -- but it's long, and I don't really think it pertains. Anyone disagree? Eeblefish 02:21, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

It's been a few days. I'm removing it unless someone disputes it. Eeblefish 04:55, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Some Sources

Milton Diamond and Ayako Uchiyama in „Pornography, Rape and Sex Crimes in Japan“ (International Journal of Law and Psychiatry 22(1): 1-22. 1999) online „Pornography, Rape and Sex Crimes in Japan“:

Our findings regarding sex crimes, murder and assault are in keeping with what is also known about general crime rates in Japan regarding burglary, theft and such. Japan has the lowest number of reported rape cases and the highest percentage of arrests and convictions in reported cases of any developed nation. Indeed, Japan is known as one of the safest developed countries for women in the world (Clifford, 1980). (...)...: Despite the absence of evidence, the myth persists that an abundance of sexually explicit material invariably leads to an abundance of sexual activity and eventually rape (e.g., Liebert, Neale, & Davison, 1973). Indeed, the data we report and review suggest the opposite. Christensen (1990) argues that to prove that available pornography leads to sex crimes one must at least find a positive temporal correlation between the two. The absence of any positive correlation in our findings, and from results elsewhere, between an increase in available pornography and the incidence of rape or other sex crime, is prima facie evidence that no link exists. But objectivity requires that an additional question be asked: „Does pornography use and availability prevent or reduce sex crime?“ Both questions lead to hypotheses that have, over prolonged periods, been tested in Denmark, Sweden, West Germany and now in Japan. Indeed, it appears from our data from Japan, as it was evident to Kutchinsky (1994), from research in Europe, that a large increase in available sexually explicit materials, over many years, has not been correlated with an increase in rape or other sexual crimes. Instead, in Japan a marked decrease in sexual crimes has occurred.

Berl Kutchinsky, Pornography and Rape: Theory and Practice? in: International Journal of Law and Psychiatry, Nr.14, 1991, p. 47-66--Nemissimo II 10:40, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestion

Great article. I have one suggestion, though. I think it would be interesting to include a paragraph dealing with the issue of WHO the porn actors are - socially, economically, and so on. I have a feeling there's a pretty clear class issue here. Also, as far as I know, quite a lot - maybe most? - of the women actors in porn are actually victims of sexual abuse, either as children or later in life. I'm sure there are some studies on those things - maybe someone has the time to dig this out? This would shed some sociological light on the gut feeling you invariably get watching porn: "those girls aren't really having a great time"... (although I admit it's a case of mixed emotions :))

[edit] See also links

This article has a lot of See also links (no wonder because it's a big topic). I just made an attempt at categorising them. If someone can do better, please do so. - Face 19:55, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lawyers and pornography

I fail to see a direct relationship. is this really necessary? (quote) "It also provides lucrative employment for armies of lawyers, on several "sides." " —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ariel Hoffman (talk • contribs) 15:20, 2 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Language correction needed

This phrase from the introduction needs to be changed.

and may even be performed in a live venue, possibly in front of a live audience.

By definition, a 'live venue' is in front of a 'live audience', there is no 'possibly' about it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.69.137.14 (talk) 00:21, 2 March 2007 (UTC).

'Grafe' is misspelt. It should be 'Graphe'

[edit] Citations needed

Are there any citations available for the following statements from the introduction:

pornographic industry has skyrocketed due to the technological convenience of VHS and DVD, and in particular the rise of the Internet.
most distribution is by sale.

Regarding the first statement, i have read that within the first 5 or so years of the introduction of the camera, London officials confiscated 2 tons of photographic pornography.

with regard to the second statement, any place that sells adult videos/DVD's also does a good business in rentals.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.69.137.14 (talk) 00:13, 2 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Linkage

The mention of C Everett Koop should be a link to the article on him, especially since he is a controversial figure in many ways. I can't edit the page myself because of the protection. Vcdevx99 02:24, 3 March 2007 (UTC)vc

[edit] Main image

This image needs to go, yet certain people insist on keeping it. Why? Wikipedia is here to teach people, and the photo does not teach anyone anything. I shouldn't have to tell anyone that images like this expose Wikipedia to public scrutiny which can only be a bad thing. Shreditor 03:37, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

IMO, it should be changed —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.77.237.201 (talk) 20:37, 4 March 2007 (UTC).

It's a depiction of pornography, in an article about pornography. WP:NOT censored, so I guess I'm failing to see the problem? It's not gratuitous. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me Please review me!} 05:55, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

In this case, a visual aid is always nice, as long as it's not unnecessarily distracting. I believe that we can do better than the current image (though I like that the current photo's subject is extremely typical and demonstrates an everyday reality), but I am adamantly opposed to omitting a visual example from the lead section altogether. A good article almost demands good visual aids.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 05:57, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Visual aid for what? Pornography is the depiction of sexual behavoir in order to excite sexual desire. I don't think anyone needs a "visual aid" to understand the concept. The only reason why I'm making a big deal of it is because I like Wikipedia and I don't want it ending up as a sensational story on the 6 o'clock news about how we're peddling porn to minors. I appreciate that Wikipedia is uncensored. In order for it to stay uncensored, let's use some self-restraint. Shreditor 21:24, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

We have shown restraint and good taste, IMO; barring restraint, you'd see some much more exciting photos in this article than a pedestrian snapshot taken in a Tel-Aviv flea market.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 11:34, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

What if I were to take a photo of the covers of some pornographic DVDs and magazines, sans the depictions of fellatio? The most you'd see is exposed breasts, which you can see many other places on Wikipedia. It would also be higher quality. Takers? Shreditor 00:34, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

The covers and the like would still be copyrighted, even if you took a photo of them, and we always prefer a free-use image to a fair-use one. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me Please review me!} 01:05, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it would be preferable to have a photograph that does not include felatio or penetration. The image we are using here is not free since it is a photograph of cover art, which itself is copyrighted. Johntex\^talk 01:09, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sex crimes in Japan

--- Lexi

Why is this unsourced?

--- Lexi ---

This should be cited if possible. If not I would delete it. Shreditor 00:49, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

--- Butcer ---

I removed the unsourced statement

[edit] !!!!!!!!!

please remove the top image. It is very disturbing for many individuals, and it is unnecessary. please remove that image. 66.214.242.93 06:25, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Please see WP:NOT#CENSORED. There are far worse images out there then that one, and it depicts the subject of the article without being gratuitously explicit. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me Please review me!} 06:35, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I am in partial agreement with the first point. I do feel that this image is rather explicit when there are many other images (soft core) which could be used in its place. I agree that an image should be in this article and personally I do not find this picture offensive - however perhaps a more appropriate image could be sourced. After all, there are many hard core images that could be used to highlight the Zoophilia article, but they have chosen to go with an artistic representation rather than a graphic photograph. Any thoughts - Regards - Munta 09:36, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] spelling-transliteration error

At to top of the article 'and γραφή grafe' should be replaced by 'and γραφή graphe'. In fact IMO it would be more precise and correct, simply to write a better etymology. ->

ie something like this : Pornography (greek Πορνογραφία,Pornographia from Porne,prostitute + grapho,(v.) write,+ suffix ia,state of,property of,place of)

[edit] Penis Picture

Has anyone noticed that there are explicit images in the main picture. Or if this isn't an issue, why not have some real hardcore pictures - closeups of anal sex, cumshots, etc... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jdw052 (talk • contribs).

Because its unneeded. Disinclination 19:11, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Then why are any pictures of nudity or sex needed?Jdw052 22:32, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Because, as you'll see, that the pictures are depicting what was seen as pornography in both modern and ancient ages. The rack of pornographic videos and the painting on the wall are seen as enough. You have to realize that people object to this thing all the time. All thats needed is a few tastefully chosen images, and the rest should be text. Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia. It is about text, not about images. Images are just references. Disinclination 22:35, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Ironically, you really can't see anything in the image unless, of course, you click to enlarge. as an encyclopedic image it's perfectly fitting for all the reasons listed above (and come on, the entire talk page is pretty much exclusively about the image). Complainign about the content of the image once you've enlarged it is like complaining about violence in a boxing match. (or perhaps something that makes a tad more sense) Maybe we could solve the whole issue by locking out the image to prevent enlargement. Gene S. Poole 00:06, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

So Do you think, it is possible to have the main picture removed?

Afraid that's been gone over and over. Wikipedia is not censored. We don't allow the gratuitous use of sexually-explicit material, but illustrations which are appropriate to demonstrate an article's subject certainly may be allowed. In this case, it's a picture of pornography in the article about pornography, seems perfectly alright to me. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 06:28, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] sociological aspects of pornography

I'm very interested in the powerplay that exists between the female actors in pornographic films and the men on set, in the films, producing the films, watching the films, etc. When I hear women talk about the "degredation" and "dehumanization" that occurs when a woman is submissive in bed or on film, I immediately think that these woman have possibly not looked at the deeper powerplay being acted out; sexual submission does not explicitly denote a lack of control or power, when it is looked at more closely than at face value. I've become aware of the fact that the submissive woman or man (or the "sub") often paritipates in said role (in a real life interaction, not necessarily on film) because he or she gets something out of the dramatiziation of being used. To speak more loosely, they get off on being the sub, or they wouldn't do it. In a way, they are using the dominant figure as much as the dominat figure is using them. I go through all of this because there is a parallel in the sex/adult industry: women in pornography are paid about ten times as much as men are (from my own research with people who are in and who make pornographic videos-- woman are paid about $2,000 for vaginal intercourse, men are paid about $300 for the opposite end of the same act, if both are paid up front), while men are often considered to have a harder job. Men are expected to stay erect, not ejaculate and ejaculate on command, whereas women can fake their orgasms or have a real one, and have no sex organ to prepare for intercourse, as lubricant is often used. It is not an across the board truth, but many women get into pornography to make money they cannot make with the education and/or experience they have, usually a high school diploma. It's been called a woman's industry because in a way, the women in it are exploiting the men they work with and profitting off their often times innate sexuality. Adversely, women who sleep with lots of men in american society are called whores and sluts, men who sleep with lots of women in american society are siad to "have game" or be studs. These women are often aware, at least partially, that the adult/sex industry "exploits women," weather true or false. They still go into these films willingly for money or sexual gratification, or because that is the most appealing avenue available to them. The discussion question I wanted to post is, all of the above information considered, who's more expolited in pronography, men or women? And is it really correct to focuss on the exploitation of women in anything more than a historical section of the article?

Functionvsaesthetic 09:43, 20 March 2007 (UTC)functionvsaesthetic

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../p/o/r/Talk%7EPornography_555c.html"

Category: Wikipedia featured article candidates (contested)