Talk:Roman Ungern von Sternberg

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I may have moved this while someone was puting the copyvio page in - sorry for any confusion --Henrygb 00:34, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 His name is Ungern von Sternberg 2 place of birth 3 Copyright of Images 4 Popular Culture 5 Um? 6 Story of his capture 7 Black Baron? 8 About the picture

[edit] His name is Ungern von Sternberg

STOP moving this page to Ungern-Sternberg. That was NOT his name, even if it seems more proper. --Gene s 18:32, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Funny then that the article claims this form of the name to be "incorrect"... --Latebird 09:35, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Are you asking a question or making a statement? --Gene s 15:03, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Sorry for being cryptic. The question is about the rationale that makes the current article name more appropriate than his actual birth name. My motivation for asking is that I'm considering to work on the german language article. All other languages currently seem to use "von Ungern-Sternberg", for whichever reasons. --Latebird 17:52, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

He used "Ungern von Sternberg" throughout his adulthood and he became known under this name. The assumed name is commonly used by the wiki if it's the name one is known under. For example, see Marilyn Monroe (Norma Jeane Mortenson), Kirk Douglas (Issur Demsky), Vladimir Lenin (Ulyanov). I guess the other languages use "von Ungern-Sternberg" because it's more correct grammatically. --Gene s 10:37, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] place of birth

User:3_Löwi: Could you please produce source for born in in Graz, Austria ..., and raised in Tallinn (Reval), Estonia. All sources that I can find point to Dago, Estonia. --Gene s 18:45, 17 November 2005 (UTC) Any information about White Army money and treasures of Urga and Gandaan???Still not found!

'Eesti Entsüklopoeedia' kd X gives Graz. Constanz - Talk 11:04, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright of Images

Can it be shown that the two images were published in the USSR before 1973? If so, then it would be a good idea to move them to the Commons using the respective public domain tag, so that all language versions can use them without the need to store an extra copy. --Latebird 14:29, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Popular Culture

Should we add a reference to Pelevin's Chapaev and Pustota (in Englihs, The Clay Machine-Gun)? Cema 03:22, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

The nickname "Bloody Baron" will also make people wonder about the ghost of the same name in JKR. There does not appear to be any other connection. 12.144.50.221 16:09, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Um?

Is the material here accurate? DS 21:29, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

It's called a "fictional essay" right there... --Latebird 22:15, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

... in a context that implies that it is not fiction. The other "fictional essays" are about real people and real events, so... DS 03:19, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Key players and events are indeed taken from actual history. Most of the details seem to be fictional, though, some possibly taken from popular legends. Quite interesting to read but clearly not a useful source for Wikipedia. --Latebird 10:15, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Thank you; that's what I was concerned about. DS 15:29, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Story of his capture

I read a story about how he was captured. It was written by Byambyn Rinchen (or Rinchen Byambayev) in 1967.08.04, N32 of the Mongolian newspaper "Utga zohiol urlag" (Literature and art). In the article, he remembers that when he was a young secretary to the minister of border affairs, in July 1921, he and his minister went to visit a (mongolian) prisoner in a red army prison, who was an old friend of the minister, to inform him that he will be soon transferred to the Mongolian side. The prisoner's name was "Bishrelt gun Sundui" and he was confined in the same room that the Baron was staying. Baron knew some Mongolian language, and under the Baron's presence few feet away, Sundui talked about how he was a leader of the mongolian soldiers in the Baron's army, and after throwing the Chinese gomindan army how Baron took them deep into Russian territory and how it was meaningless to them to fight there. He said that they were so frustrated and homesick that they were waiting for the first convenient moment to capture the Baron and bring him to the Red Army. One night a mongolian soldier shot the Baron from outside of his tent, but missed and the Baron immediately turned off his candle. Then the Baron bacame extra cautious that he never took his right hand off of his gun in his pocket. Once the Baron took Sundui and a few soldiers to go to Mongolia. During a short picnic two soldiers grabbed the Baron's two arms and captured him the moment his right hand was away from his gun to light up his cigaret. The Barons' Russian soldiers were observing this but nobody did anything probably because they were defeated by the Red Army many times and already kind of have given up.

Ricnhen described the Baron as tall, with broad shoulders but flat chest, a bit small head and very "evil" kind of eyes.

Temur 18:47, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Black Baron?

The this-day-in-history box for March 13 refers to him as “The Black Baron,” which has no support on this page. Which is wrong? —crism 00:17, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

the Black Baron was Wrangel. Thanks. Will be fixed. `'mikka 01:48, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] About the picture

On the main picture the Baron wears a deel, Mongolian national costume. Normally a deel has the opening in the right hand side, which appears on this picture in his left side. so I suspect the picture is a mirror image. Also the medal appears in the right side, which I think people usually put on their left side. If you see the picture before execution, the deel opening is in the right side.

Temur 19:00, 13 March 2007 (UTC)