Talk:Shadow the Hedgehog/Archive 3

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Contents 1 Project Shadow emblem 2 Age again 3 Super Shadow's color...again 4 Category:Fictional characters who are opposed to humanity 5 Shadow's Speed 5.1 The Answer to all your problems 6 Page Updated 7 Sonic Next story 8 Super Shadow 9 Sorry!

[edit] Project Shadow emblem

Hey, where is it stated that the emblem stands for Project Shadow? All I know is that it's all over the ARK. Even on the Artifical Chaos's foreheads. 83.252.141.112 22:02, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Appears to be edited by the uploader. I've removed it. --InShaneee 22:16, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, it's back. Just FYI. 83.252.141.112 21:07, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, but it does stand for Project Shadow, this official wallpaper has the logo in the exact same format as it was when it was in this article. The version that was on here was a recreation from game textures and the wallpaper in flash by KojiChan, but its completely official, the only difference is the white border for easy viewing. The Project Shadow logo was on the Artifical Chaos foreheads because basically everything on the ark had to do with Project Shadow, these early "Shadows" were based on chaos but then were programmed to be security for the ark. Shadow The Hedgehog was just "using another desirable form" based on ancient echidna murals, but they were all Project Shadow. So anyway, I have just reuploaded the picture, and I am about to restore it to the article. Don't remove it before posting here. (Sorry for hotlinking to Shadow of a Hedgehog but that was the only place I could find the wallpaper)

ROSSYMILES (ロシマイルス) TALK 10:30, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Well then, thanks for clearing that up. 83.252.141.112 12:06, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I've removed it again, as the Artificial Shadows didn't have the words 'Project Shadow' on their forehead, and it's still speculation to say whether or not it's anyone (or anything's) logo. --InShaneee 14:04, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Its not speculation, the official wallpaper i linked to before has the logo with the words project shadow underneath it. That definitely links the logo to Shadow and to the words "Project Shadow" ROSSYMILES (ロシマイルス) TALK 05:40, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I hardly think a wallpaper would be considered canon. --InShaneee 05:44, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

As long as its made by Sonic Team, anything can be canon. Anyway, official wallpapers are made from promotional images. That means that the emblem, along with the words "Project Shadow," were in the same promotional image file. -ROSSYMILES (ロシマイルス) TALK 06:47, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I'd just like to point out that the emblem also appears various times in ARK levels (at least, in final rush) and I believe that I also saw it in "Shadow" once. -Chao9999 21:55, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Age again

Alright, we're setting this right now. What do we put for his age? I have yet to see any references that he's immortal or for how long he was in suspended animation, so I say we mention that he APPEARS as a 15 year old and leave it all at that. --InShaneee 19:25, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

He's said to be immortal in most manuals and offiical websites. I'm pretty sure is says so on the English next gen site as well. However, IGN says they have info from Sega that says he's 15 . :/ GrandMasterGalvatron 14:11, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Fine then, how's this: we put 'see text' in his infobox, and in the actual article, state what you just said. Sound good? --InShaneee 15:14, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Augh, Shadow's age is currently the subject of a major edit war. We may have to protect this page. --Luigifan 02:56, 29 October 2006 (UTC)\

As much as I know this dosen't abide by Wikipedia's guidlines, I'm a part of the whole "edit war". That's because some I.P. keeps on adding every single thing we don't want. Also, some other people have also been adding the whole "science thing" into the mix. They say he's 0 because he's immortal. Might I add, Sonic characters are barely affected by time (there FICTIONAL). Again, it's all confusing. He's 50 years old, he looks 15 physically, and he's 0 because he dosen't age? But, w/e, IGN is as reliable as Sega, and they state he's 15. So, everything aside, he's 15 some way somehow. That's all we know FOR SURE. If this edit war continues we WILL get protection. For now, it's not too big. UnDeRsCoRe 04:05, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Simple solution: we put whatever we have a source for. Put in 15, and cite IGN. --InShaneee 04:23, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, I already talked to InShaneee about this, so I'll make it quick. I think that we should say 50 chronologically (this much is known), and list his age the same way SEGA does: unknown. Cite the game manuals and games, plus SEGA, and then put in "On the IGN website, they list his age as 15, but the cononity of this can be questioned" or something to that extent. You can take out the doubtful part if you want. Cite the IGN website. This keeps us open ended, out of fan opinion, and logical, while keeping the 15 age (however much I think it's stuipid) open ended. -Chao

How about this. "While Sega states his age as 'unknown', he has been in status for approximatly 50 years, and IGN has listed his age as 15". That's all the facts. --InShaneee 01:16, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Perfect -Chao

Alright then! Any objections to making that the new standard? --InShaneee 02:45, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

This comes from 71.213.221.94 who asked me (UnDeRsCoRe) to post this (since he/she is blocked for some reason:

"IGN is NOT a reliable source guys, lemme tell ya. Third party sources in GENERAL aren't that reliable. Let's just stick with what's been stated: He cannot age He's chronologically 50

So, I think we should just state that his chronological age, as that's all that's been confirmed, although I personally think we should say 0 since he cannot age. Either way, he's definitely NOT 15, that's neither been stated, nor sensical, and, if anything, is pure fanon. Let's just say 50 until we get more info."

"Oh, and on the Super Shadow subject, he's creamy silver, END OF STORY. He was in both game's that he's appeared in, so there's no way he isn't."

Lol, that is the user now posting as Chao. We spoke offline. So...any other objections? --InShaneee 02:58, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Dude, did you just DELETE what I said? I already posted here. -Chao9999 03:37, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

The facts are:

• He appears 15 (same age as Sonic, he is also the same height, weight etc.)
• He was sealed in suspended animation for 50 years. He was sealed not long after he was created (probably a month or so) and released not too long ago in the current sonic storyline.
• Many fictional clones have there growth accelerated so they're useable as soon, or soon after the cloning procedure is completed, then their growth rate is slowed down again.
• This would make the actual time he has been "alive" less than a year, the time he has been existing 50 years, and he's growth compared to a "normal" hedgehog (Sonic) approximately 15. (and from a reliable source, see above, his age in SONIC The Hedgehog is said to be 15)

To be an encyclopaedic article, it has to mention all this.

ROSSYMILES (ロシマイルス) TALK 10:50, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

No, that's all speculation. He doesn't 'appear' to be anything, that's just your opinion. We don't know when he was sealed in suspended animation; while it was most likely 50 years, it could have been a week for all we know. The stuff about the growth rate is all speculation as well. I'll modify my sentence: "While Sega states his age as 'unknown', he was created approximatly 50 years ago (though he was likely in suspended animation for most of that time), and IGN has listed his age as 15", but that's all that we can verify with actual sources. --InShaneee 14:10, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree with InShaneee. While you are correct on some parts, almost all of it is speculation. All we know is that he has EXISTED for 50 years, and that he was sent to the earth about a week after he was created. And, as I have said multiple times, IGN has no place in stating his age like that. If they were correct, then at least ONE official SEGA site would even MENTION him 15. The page is perfect the way it is.

I also agree with this. As age is "The whole duration of a being, whether animal, vegetable, or other kind; lifetime.", 50 suits him just fine. GrandMasterGalvatron 15:11, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Super Shadow's color...again

OK dudes..what is the deal? There has been loads of mindless editing about this. I try to settle it by providing a damn wikilink to the color and it gets replaced with mindless fancruft! The sad part is, the picutre shown negates everything these people type as well! Damn...at this rate, we might have a small section on it alone or something. In any case, Super Shadow is best described as this color. The platinum color from Sonic Adventure 2 has officialy been retconned by Sonic X, Shadow the Hedgehog, and probably Sega SuperStars (I haven't seen him in this game so I wouldn't know). The in game aura warping the color is irrelevant. We have CG FOOTAGE of Super Shadow in this new color...that should seal the deal right there. I can't say for sure, but the chances are he WILL be this color in Sonic the Hedgehog as well.GrandMasterGalvatron 14:22, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

How about we mention both colors, if they both appeared in games? --InShaneee 15:14, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

We have before but it gets edited :/GrandMasterGalvatron 16:02, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Hence why I'm saying let's reach consensus here first. Blind reverting against consensus is considered vandalism. So, how do we want to describe it? --InShaneee 19:56, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Well...the whole "creamy *insert color here*" has got to go. It sounds WAY speculatory as well as fancruftish. We need a definite description of both colors, as well as to make it known that the platinum color was indeed a technical error. During that gameplay was the only time he ever appeared that color. The whole aura saturation thing in Shadow the Hedgehog is quite irrelevant as he apperad that same color in the following CG. If you take a look at the color link I provided earlier, you'll see it's a fairly good representation of the color he is now. As for the old color, I belive "Metallic Champagne is an accurate description since the Super forms were metallic in that game.

Thoughts? Comments?GrandMasterGalvatron 14:48, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I like the lemon creme idea, though I'm hesistant to go with Champaigne while there's no color reference on its page. --InShaneee 15:05, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

http://www.fancifulsinc.com/mall/Metalic_Paints.asp That's got a good sample of the champagne color. It's commonly used in acryllic paints and also appears in horse coats GrandMasterGalvatron 15:12, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't need to see what the color is; I meant for reference to other wikipedians in the future. Maybe we can track down an editor who works on color-related pages to look into improving that one (or hey, even poking his head in here for his two cents?)? --InShaneee 15:18, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Alright then. I'll try to drop him/her a line. Are we settled on these two colors though?

Actually...I have no idea who to look for :/GrandMasterGalvatron 15:42, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I think I found someplace that might be able to help out. :) --InShaneee 15:51, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Excellent...I left a note on their talk page GrandMasterGalvatron 16:02, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

What makes you more correct than anyone else Galvatron? MindWraith 09:02, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

The fact that I'm using recent data to support my claims for one. :P Also, if you notice, Super Shadow actually becomes his current color during the transformation. It is only during SA2's gameplay when he is the other color.GrandMasterGalvatron 14:48, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

It's called community consensus. Try it. --InShaneee 15:05, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to point out that in StH, he was white-silver as well. Sonic X doesn't count, and the CG for Shadow had hints of silver in it. Oh, and in SA2, when he transformed, it was the same character model, it was just that the yellow background reflected off of him a bit, and gave him a bit of a gold look. We list his color as White-Silver, with an aura of gold. That's good enough, I'd say.

EDIT: Anyway guys, we need to change the article, as it's still incorrect. If you guys don't want to go with the color I speak of, then we should put his color as "under debate". -Chao9999 03:57, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

We don't do 'under construction' notices here. It'll be fine until we can resolve this. --InShaneee 14:11, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I think we're good with what we have above. I would rather us to be able to provide links to actual colors instead of using terms like "White-Silver" and "Creamy Silver". I've added the two wikilinked colors to the sections, as well as a small note on the confusion caused by the DC's processor. I have noticed that Super Shadow is the proper colors in the scenes of SA2, as well as all of Sonic 2:Battle, Sonic X, Shadow the Hedgehog, and I assume Sega Superstars. (I still can't find a pic of that though). BTW, I saw no silver in those CGs. GrandMasterGalvatron 15:36, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

No, Galvatron, he's SILVER. In SA2/B, and Shadow, he was Silver. Sonic X DOESN'T count. Have you been able to see Super Shadow's character model from SA2/B? Silver. From Shadow? Disable the aura and, guess what? Silver. His color is silver, not gold. You can't see ANY gold on him in ANY scene. SA2/B made him appear gold ONCE, and that was due to the Yellow background during the transformation scene. Shadow gave him a gold aura, but behind it is, you guessed it, a SILVER model. The CG made his aura even more noticeable, and made it REALLY hard to see his skin. I'd bet my LIFE on this. -Chao9999 20:24, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Well prepare to lose it. I have the texture file on my home PC and he IS the color stated about. Super Silver is the one that's silver (OMG lame pun). Super Shadow is not. Sonic X DOES count and it'd be foolish to say it doesn't. Let's go over each detail one by one shall we.

• The ONLY time Super Shadow appears anywhere close to silver is during the gameplay of Sonic Adventure 2. Even then, he's not silver but a metallic champagne. He is lemon cream in the transformation sequence and he's lemon cream in the ending sequence.
• Sonic adventure 2 Battle slagged up the lighting in the transformation scene pretty badly...it's very much non existent. Even then, he is STILL the lemon cream color. He also appears this way during gameplay. Also in both versions, Super Shadow's aura is tinted RED. It does not affect his overall skin texture.
• Super Sonic's transformation in Sega Super Stars is presented through still images..therefore, no lighting and no auras. Super Shadow's is the same. I'll place bets on the fact that he is the lemon cream color in the stills. In fact, I'll make yet another effort to get those screen caps.
• Super Shadow appears frequently in Sonic X. He is CLEARLY the lemon cream color there, aura or no. Super Sonic's color is unchanged, and it's the same with Super Shadow.
• Super Shadow once again appears the lemon color in Shadow the Hedgehog in both gameplay and CG. The fact that his aura is insanely bright in gameplay is irrelevant. If Sega deemed he were silver, then he'd look Silver. Even still you can quite easily see through the aura during close ups and see that he is STILL the lemon color. Then there's the CGs where he is the same color YET AGAIN.
• Super Shadow will appear in Sonic the Hedgehog in the final battle and possibly in level play. While the lighting may differ depending on the area, he will be the lemon color YET AGAIN. Also, if you got a load of Super Sonic's appearance in the tech demo, you'd see that there is no aura interference as it has returned to a spherical form.

Slag...I'm gonna just post the texture when I get to my home PC GrandMasterGalvatron 21:47, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, I guess I see SOME yellow every once and a while, but "lemon cream" implies a heavy presence of yellow. Silver with a hint of gold would work MUCH better.

Still, I'd like to see these textures (although, I have reason to believe they're edited, I don't care). Slag, what? Oh, and we don't know if it's the LAST battle. It could be the Second to Last, or Third to Last. Just don't be so sure. -Chao9999 01:26, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I've seen close-ups of super shadow from StH and his skin does appear to be yellow. MindWraith 02:23, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually..I do know what battle Super Shadow's gonna appear in...I've been soaking up spoilers all the way. I'll drop the full bomb once I get a hold of the strategy guide. As for the texture, here it is:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/Hot-Shot/supershd_body.jpg This is the original texture file which was pulled from SA2 (DC version). I haven't so much as even changed the filename since I've saved it. (which I usually do instantly) As you can see, there's hardly enough of the darker areas to call him Silver, yet there's a huge presence of the lemon cream color, as well as just plain cream itself. Actually..check out Super Shadow's chest hair in SA2. That's silver if I ever saw it :P GrandMasterGalvatron 03:36, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

That doesn't help WHATSOEVER. It's CLEARLY not real, as Shadow has at least SOME silver-ISH parts, and yet that's completely GOLD.

I don't think I've heard of any way of obtaining the info for NEXT yet, so I don't really believe you. Seriously, what's slage? -Chao9999 03:48, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Is it clearly not real?..or are you just upset about being wrong? :P I have NO reason to lie to you. This texture is straight from the game itself. I will also say that Super Sonic's heroes texture is the exact same size. The texture is applied to the model, and UV coordinates are used to spread it. If it were silver then I'd be agreeing with you all the way. If you want to see silver, look at Super Shadow's chest hair in Sonic Adventure 2. That's silver, whereas this color isn't. Remember, silver is devoid of all color whatsoever. If he were silver, there'd be no traces of lemon cream anywhere.

As for Sonic the Hedgehog, in addition to the script being leaked, the demo was decompiled. Not only did the game tester confirm the presence of Sonic, Shadow, and Silver's super forms, there are files found within the demo that identify them as well...and this time, they are fully labeled as opposed to the abbreviations in Heroes. (it says "supersonic", "supershadow", and "supersilver")GrandMasterGalvatron 14:11, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

If anything, that'd be Super SONIC'S texture, Super Shadow, if yellow, isn't anywhere NEAR that yellow. Try again. Besides, why did everybody say he was Silver BEFORE Shadow the Hedgehog came out?

I know about the demo being decompiled, but I didn't know about a script leak. -Chao9999 21:50, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Super Sonic is WAY more yellow than that.GrandMasterGalvatron 22:23, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Did you just DELETE my comment? What the crap!

Anyway, it's yellow enough. Besides, Super Shadow isn't NEARLY that yellow, if at all yellow. Like I said, screenshots man. Until then, it should be Silver. If it was widely believed that he was silver BEFORE StH came out, and since you haven't brought anything that I can trust, it's Silver. Bring up screen shots of him from SA2/B, and tell me that he's "lemon cream". EDIT: Well, screen shots? This color thing shouldn't be resolved, as both sides have no proof. I have nothing to give me direct feed, or anything as such, thus, you have to provide the screenshots. -Chao9999 03:37, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

What the hell man...does nothing short of Sega telling you themselves satisfy you lot? It was NEVER widely believed that he was silver..EVER. Even before Sonic X, that notion was shot down just as much as that "SegaSonic" garbage. I just gave you proof...that is Super Shadow's ingame texture. The DC screwed up the processing and it came out a champagne color. Ever since then he has been the lemon cream color as he was intended to be. Do you really think that's Super Sonic's texture? I mean seriously..look at Super Sonic..he's like stone yellow or something. In any case, I got his heroes texture on my home PC (as I never cared to upload it) and if needed, I'll post that as well since he's usually the same shade of yellow with a few rare exceptions.

Slag...there's like an edited screenshot out that shows what he'd be like if he was silver. I'll have to find it. Also, who has been deleting comments? That's just not right.GrandMasterGalvatron 13:23, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

You must be pretty new to the Sonic community if you didn't know that most, if not ALL people, believed him to be silver, since he was in SA2/B, AND Shadow. I understand he might be yellow, and might have a significant presance of yellow, but LEMON CREAM is almost COMPLETE yellow. If anything, I'd say a color is needed that DOESN'T clash with his in-game appearances. And no, Sonic X really doesn't count, it's just WAY too off of the Sonic-verse, like Archie, and Fleetway. Remember how Archie first portrayed tails a brown SO DARK it was close to BLACK. And yet, if anything, he looked more like a light brown back then. The same applies.

I don't know WHO is deleting those comments, but it's REALLY annoying. EDIT: Oh wait, when I saw lemon cream first, because of the annoying chart, I thought it was a different color. Never mind, I think that color actually works pretty well, despite the name being a SERIOUS misnomer. Never mind, I guess the color looks fine. I'd just like it if we used a color that didn't imply such...yellow (like Super Sonic kinda yellow). -Chao9999 14:51, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I was around back in the day. :P The whole "silver" thing was a common misconception back then (much like Super Knuckles being pink). We had to tell people he wasn't silver back then, and we still have to do so today apperently. Tails was brown back in the day as well. Back then he was brown in the cartoons and that's what the comics were based on. Personally, I never thought Super Shadow was silver..I called him platinum back then. In any case, check this out:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/Hot-Shot/SuperMode/SuperShadowgotthroughact1.jpg

That should negate any thoughts that I posted Super Sonic's textureGrandMasterGalvatron 15:03, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

What color IS Super Knuckles? Isn't it just like, red? All he does is glow. No, I meant ULTRA ULTRA Brown. He wasn't THAT brown, not even in StH2. Whoah, I guess my disc is just messed up. On my Gamecube(s), he's still Silver. O_o Maybe I got some, like, evil unfinished prototype glitch disc. I still think we need a Knuckles spin off. I mean, COME ON, Damn, it's like EVERY game Shadow's in, he's always "WHATS MY PAST", and they gave him a game for that. Knuckles has been saying that since, what, Sonic THREE. Now THAT would be cool. If they do make that, I hope they make the punches USEFUL. -Chao9999 04:51, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I'd say turn up the color on your TV. Tails was never brown in the games, but in the catroons he was a DEEP brown. I'd also like a Knuckles game for a number of reasons, and yes, Super Knux is red.GrandMasterGalvatron 04:58, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, I've played SA2B on multiple TVs before, all with the same result. And everything looks the same EXCEPT Super Shadow. I'm not sure why I don't like people saying Knux, I guess it's because it's not spoken in ANY game. -Chao9999 05:11, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Fictional characters who are opposed to humanity

The category has been removed several times now.

In SA2 he wanted vengeance on mankind for Maria's death. In his own game, you could join the Black Arms to destroy mankind. He has also acted superior to human beings before (saying lines like "Pathetic humans"). While he may not currently be opposed to humanity, he has been several times in the past, so the category still applies to him (for example, a character like Rogue from the X-Men; her article appears in several villain categories. She is no longer a villain, having reformed, but since she was a villain in the past the categories still apply to her). --DrBat 20:20, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree with this. Shadow is definitely opposed to humanity. Even with amnesia, he had no problems taking out human soldiers. Shadow's pretty much opposed to anything in his way. GrandMasterGalvatron 23:36, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Shadow's said stuff along the lines of "Pathetic humans" several times now, the category definitely applies to him. --Luigifan 01:50, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

On the other hand, i think he is compassionate towards humans after the events of Sonic Adventure 2, basically because Maria told him so. And since he regained his memories after the advents of StH he is better described as "Fictional characters who were opposed to humanity." Which isnt a category. ROSSYMILES (ロシマイルス) TALK 08:28, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shadow's Speed

I know it said in Sonic Battle that Shadow is faster (by 1 point) with his Air Shoes. And that was only for gameplay purposes. But where was it specifically stated (by an official source OTHER than Sonic Battle) that a)Shadow is faster than Sonic with his Air Shoes and b)that him and Sonic have the same speed if Shadow wasn't using his Air Shoes. I thought the majority of his speed came from the shoes, making Shadow AS fast as Sonic. Cause in every Sonic game I've played, Sonic and Shadow at full speed run at the same speed. BlackEDGE MkII 01:46, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Im not sure about beating Sonic in terms of speed, but there is proof of Shadow matching his speed. I believe its in the Sonic Heroes and Shadow The Hedgehog instuction booklets. So yeah, appart from Battle i dont think there is anything else saying he is faster than Sonic. ColoUrnotcolor 20:49, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Color, you're not supposed to delete peoples comments.

Anyway, there has not been ANY mention of them being the same speed, and the only time it's mentioned their speeds, it's shown Shadow as the faster. If he's faster in Sonic Battle, and Shadow, it's pretty safe to assume them to be the same speed. -Chao9999 21:13, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

What? There's been loads of mentions of them being the same speed, just read the game manuals. Like in the Shadow the hedgehog manual it says "Shadow can easily rival Sonic's speed" and that Sonic's speed is "second to none", which means that they are both equal in speed. -Jack Bz

>Italic text:Color, you're not supposed to delete peoples comments.Italic text What? There was no other comments underneath it when i posted. If i did, im sorry but it wasnt intentional. ColoUrnotcolor 21:54, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh well.

Anyway, that stuff doesn't neccesarily mean that Sonic and Shadow are the same speed. If he can "easily match Sonic's speed", then that not only DOESN'T help your case, it actually WORSENS it. He's only been depicted as the same speed when gameplay calls for it, or in non-canon sources. Chao9999 22:00, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Alright then..we need to reach a consensus here as well. I suggest we use the latest official info that's available. Do the Sonic the Hedgehog profiles say anything about the speed?GrandMasterGalvatron 22:04, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, the only times one can truly compare their speeds, Shadow has been shown to be faster, and has only been shown to be as fast either in areas that need them to be the same, or in non-canon. Shadow is faster than Sonic, plain and simple. -Chao9999 22:19, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

NO, SHADOW IS NOT FASTER THEN SONIC! SONIC ALWAYS WILL BE FASTER THEN SHADOW!

Ah, a spammer perhaps?

Anyway, as the only info that directly compares their speeds is in favor of Shadow, and since it's never EXPLICITLY stated that they're the same speeds, we go with "Shadow is faster". Plain and simple. -Chao9999 23:51, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Stop saying it's plain and simple. We should reach an agreement instead of accusing me of vandalism. -Jack Bz

OH GOD! I've created a Wiki flame war! NO!!!!....... But i believe that the 2 hedgehogs are equal in speed and until I get an offical statement from Sonic Team saying that Shadow is faster, I'm sticking to my belief. BlackEDGE MkII 00:38, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Ah, but you WERE vandalising. You said things like "Shadow is at least 10 times stronger than Sonic", among other things.

OFFICIAL statement from Sonic Team? Look at Sonic Battle. 'Nuff said. -Chao9999 03:31, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I did NOT say that. I only edited that his speed is only as fast as Sonic (which everyone seems to agree upon), and that it's unknown how fast he can run without the shoes, other then saying that without the shoes he's as fast as Sonic. Almost all sources say that they are the same speed except Sonic Battle, which also has outrageous things like Eggman destroying entire solar systems or something like that. -Jack Bz

But dont all the Sonic games have something outrageous in them? And i thought Shadow was a lot stronger than Sonic. He can lift up a bus with a single hand after all. But anyway, as Jack said, the vast majority of sources say that Sonic and Shadow are equal in terms of speed. Since Sonic Battle says differently, i guess it could be considered the odd one out. ColoUrnotcolor 15:29, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

i want proof that shadow is faster than sonic! if you can't get something, too bad for you.

Sonic Battle kthnx GrandMasterGalvatron 20:28, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Seriously, SIGN YOUR COMMENTS.

Anyway, no, official sources don't say that, they say things that IMPLY that. The only source that compares their speed is, OMG Sonic Battle. Quit your whining, it's not like super strength and slightly faster speed make him better than Sonic. Sonic has plot devices, a SOCIAL LIFE, actual mental health, and games that AREN'T horribly underrated (almost every Shadow review I see that says it sucks cites problems that either don't exist, are trivial, or are just Sonic bashers in general). Jack, I looked at the article before it was edited, and your edit had the 10X comment. EDIT: Ok, who's the jerk that stated in the article that we reached a conclusion? That's seriously rude, especially since it's a lie. Don't do that. Oh, and SOMEBODY just stated that Shadow is TWENTY times stronger than Sonic. That's a no-no. -Chao9999 05:08, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

How is saying that Sonic's speed is second to none and that Shadow can match Sonic's speed in an official game manual "implying" that they're equal? Seeing as Shadow the Hedgehog was the most recent game that came out, that's what we should go by. And also, it isn't a case of Sonic > Shadow or anything like that. We should all decide on something now due to our opposing views. It will keep getting edited back and forth without consensus or whatever. -Jack Bz

• sigh* As I've said before, if Shadow is faster in Sonic Battle, AND Shadow the hedgehog, I think it's pretty safe to say that he's faster. And I don't know WHO kept saying that Shadow's running speed is equal to Sonic's, but they're most definitely wrong. Shadow is faster, plain and simple. Since the only times where gameplay doesn't demand that they're the same speed are Sonic Battle and Shadow, it's pretty safe to say that Shadow is faster.

Oh, and Sonic's speed being second to none means his RUNNING speed. Shadow can still be faster, because he has the air skates. Shadow has proven himself faster, so stop changing it. -Chao9999 21:24, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

When in the whole of Shadow the Hedgehog does it mention anywhere EVER that he is faster? And how do YOU know that it just applies to running speed? That's just mis interpreting what the manual said to provide some kind of proof that Shadow is faster. Sonic Battle is the only official source, and it opposes many many other official sources including the most recent game. -Jack Bz

Wow.....this has really gotten out of hand, hasn't it? Why doesn't someone email Sega and ask who is faster. BlackEDGE MkII 22:58, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

You see, it's that he's the fastest thing ALIVE. Shadow might be faster, but that's the skates. Without them, he probably wouldn't stand a chance. In StH, run with Sonic as your partner. He goes a bit slower than you (note: MAX SPEED). The most recent game IS Shadow (although, Sonic Riders is newer, it's technically not a Sonic game). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Chao9999 (talk • contribs).

About the Sonic running behind Shadow part in SHth, Sonic is runnig behind him like if he was in Power Formation in SH. So, he's not going at FULL SPEED!!!! I agree with Chao9999's statement about Shadow's speed, but does anyone notice that Sonic Team has a knack for ignoring statements from previous games? In SB, it talks about Shadow using his Air Shoes, but then in SHtH it said Shadow's powerful body is the source of his speed. BlackEDGE MkII 16:05, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

No wait!!! What am I saying?! I say Shadow is AS FAST AS Sonic with his Air Shoes. Not faster, not slower, equal. BlackEDGE MkII 16:08, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Also, according to your evidence from Shadow the Hedgehog, Tails, Knuckles etc must all be EXACTLY the same speed as Sonic, but just that bit slower then Shadow. This is obviously false, so that doesn't really back up what you said. Everyone besides Chao (atleast in this discussion) agrees that the article should state that they're equal, despite the evidence from one Sonic game. Jack Bz

My bad. The SHtH part isn't (completely) valid. Since just about everyone "glares at Chao9999" agrees, has someone tried to edit the article yet? BlackEDGE MkII 21:15, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Guys, we've prven it already, stop editing it. In EVERY game we see him in that doesn't call for them to be the same speed (for gameplay reasons), Shadow has been faster. From what I've heard for NEXT, Shadow goes faster. I don't know what speed Mephiles is, but, since he has the Air Skates as well, I'm going out on a leg and saying he's also faster than Sonic. No, Sonic doesn't run "behind" Shadow, he runs SLOWER than Shadow. Shadow goes just a bit faster than Sonic in that game. Anyway, GrandMastaG(dawg) agrees. I've brought up various proof, not to mention have brought into notion that any statements you've brought up have all been IMPLYING both that he can run as fast, and that he can run faster. You have yet to bring up something that actually helps you. We're correct, just face it. Just because Shadow outclasses our hero in speed, doesn't mean he does in EVERYTHING. Sonic seems to have a much more stable mind (although, Shadows instable nature could just be Mephiles), and Sonic has various allies, as well as more experience. It's not the end of the world that you lost guys (especially you, JACKBZ), I felt pretty humiliated when I saw that I had been calling Super Shadow silver because of a bad disc. Just understand that we're correct. -Chao9999 21:52, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

That is the stupidest thing I've ever read. You have heard nothing about Sonic next gen comparing their speeds (except the fact that SONIC goes into the mach speed zones and Shadow doesn't). You seem to think that this is a popularity contest between Sonic and Shadow for some reason. You have brought up various proof, most of it being completley wrong besides the Sonic Battle evidence which counteracts evidence from other games. You're waffleing on how Sonic has a stable mind to try and help your argument for some reason???? WHAT. You're simply ignoring what I'm saying. And everyone apart from you (and APPARENTLY Grandmastergalvatron) agree. You have not proven it at all. According to you Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Vector, Espio (and whoever were the other partners in Shadow) were all as fast as Sonic but just that tiny bit slower then Shadow. That is false, so is your information. -Jack Bz

I agree with Jack Bz. Where do you get your info from Chao? It's not true and hasn't been proven. You want some proof on their speeds: go to youtube and look for both Sonic and Shadow gameplay vids. Does Shadow look like he's moving faster than Sonic? (If you say yes, then you are a FRICKIN' MORON!) BlackEDGE MkII 22:31, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Once again, THEY'VE ONLY BEEN THE SAME SPEED WHEN GAMEPLAY CALLED FOR IT. I've brought up proof, yet you haven't. You just keep saying "lol ur dumb shdw isn fastr theyr the sam speeds dumy lok at sa2b". That's it. You see, you guys have yet to actually presant ANY form of evidence that shows them to be the same speed. I have presanted MORE than enough evidence that Shadow is faster, and yet you guys just can't seem to grasp it (And jack, just shut up, okay? I've been relatively tolerant of you, but when you vandalised the Shadow article all those times, I really lost any reason to even LISTEN to you. That, and your overall stuipidity over the matter ["you're ignoring everything I said" even though you have yet to really say anything]). Why is it so hard to believe that Shadow's faster? I've brought up proof, you haven't. I've also brouht up the fact that anything you guys say is proof is usually a statement that SEGA posts in bios that are usually just trying to support a lost cause (Sonic is "the fastest hedgehog in the planet", but air shoes aren't hedgehogs). I've proven it correct already. Until you find something that actually helps your case, he's faster. -Chao9999 22:45, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Y'know what, don't tell anyone to shut up because this is the wikipedia discussion page, where we DISCUSS issues with the article. This is an issue, and yes, you have shown evidence, but don't even try to say that all I've been saying is "lol ur dumb shdw isn fastr theyr the sam speeds dumy lok at sa2b" or anything like that. You're acting as if everyone's decided that Shadow is faster and that a few special people are in denial. That is simply not true. You're in a debate where you are the only one who thinks the same as you. And also, how can you possibly accuse me of vandilising, when everyone 'cept you agrees with what I'm putting. I did not put anything about Shadow being *insert number here* times stronger then Sonic, only the speeds. Stop acting as if you've won for crying out loud and stop pumping out the same flase evidence. -Jack Bz

Jack, two people are saying he's faster, and two people are saying he's as fast. WE have proof, YOU don't have any. Plus, I've looked at the history, and it's always listing YOU as the guy who put up that "ultra strength" nonsense. DON'T deny that. I've provided correct evidence, and all you've only spoken of various crap. If anything, you just can't accept the fact that two people who've been on wikipedia for a MUCH longer time, and have probably been playing Sonic games more than you have proven two people wrong. Evidence > No evidence. It's that simple. And never, EVER edit a page that's being talked about in discussion, it's rude, annoying, and just plain inconsiderate. Stop now. You've been a complete jerk, have been VERY stubborn, and have provided NO evidence against me. At least BlackEdge shows SOME signs of intelligence (he could very well be as smart as myself). Just stop, ok? Go somewhere else if you want to be a vandal. -Chao9999 23:34, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

You know, I could take that comment about my intelligence the wrong way, Chao. But really guys, calm down. This is getting out of hand. We all (including myself) need to respect each other's opinions. Why doesn't someone get ahold of Sonic Team and ask about Shadow's speed? The last thing we need is you two (Chao and Jack) having a shootout because I started a discussion about Shadow's speed. BlackEDGE MkII 23:46, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Stop lying about me putting ultra strength stuff Chao. Please. But ok, ok. I PROMISE that if you (Chao) post evidence here from Sonic the Hedgehog for ps3/360 that Shadow is faster (reliable evidence) then I will stop my argument and let it be known throughout the world that Shadow is faster. Or, another idea. We could perhaps write something like "it is debateable who is faster out of Shadow and Sonic, as various sources like Sonic Battle say he's faster, while other sources such as Shadow the Hedgehog claim they are equal."

That's a good idea. Besides, I'm getting sick of this argument. BlackEDGE MkII 00:02, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, well. I found this on ign, and it says that SEGA sent them info about Shadow's backround an' all. http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/733/733792p1.html

Note the fact that it says "Almost as fast". I'm not sure what to make of this, considering it's ign an' all, but it was a profile SEGA sent them, or so I'm led to believe. Jack Bz

Ok, Jack, I just got some HUGE respect for you there. Not ONLY did you agree to compromise, you ALSO dissed IGN. You're now my friend. I think the debateable thing is best. But once again, he WAS faster in StH, but I think it should go like this. "It is debateable who is faster out of Shadow and Sonic, as various sources have shown him faster, while other sources have shown them equal." This is probably the best course of action. Also, on the history, it DID show you as the one who put in the superman strength, but whatever. -Chao9999 20:48, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

YES!!! Now we can put this petty argument behind us! BlackEDGE MkII 21:49, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

As for the "superhuman strength", Sega said that Shadow was slightly stronger than Sonic. In other words, there's not much of a difference. --Luigifan 21:53, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

So you're saying, if Shadow can flip over a bus with one hand, then Sonic could flip over a bus with two? BlackEDGE MkII 22:19, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

No, I'm just bringing it up to expose the triviality of the whole discussion. And, I highly doubt that Sonic would be inclined to tip over a bus. --Luigifan 23:00, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Answer to all your problems

http://sonicrivals.sega-europe.com/en/index.html

Apparently....Sonic is faster by the skin of his teeth o.O...particularly due to being able to pull off a Sonic Boom. This also means Sonic can break the sound barrier and truly is faster than the speed of sound. Of course, you all really should have known that :PGrandMasterGalvatron 20:22, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I knew THAT, but before I attempted to edit the article, I just wanted my facts straight. So, I asked what people thought and that eventually led into 3-way madness between me, Jack Bz, and Chao9999 (but mostly Jack Bz and Chao9999). Besides, I didn't want the Shadow extremists hunting me down. BlackEDGE MkII 21:33, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Besides, the article says he's potentially the fatest character in the game. I'm not being smug, I'm just pointing that out. BlackEDGE MkII 21:38, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

J- just saying, Sonic is faster than Shadow in Sonic 06 (and I'm not talking about mach speed zones) :O! 81.170.75.6 19:12, 30 November 2006 (UTC)Jack Bz

It definitely looks that way, but that's cuz they cut off some of Shad's speed to make his edgy, action-packed gameplay more diverse. DeathGodDragon EDGE 01:16, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Page Updated

I added some stuff that I thought should be mentioned to the page. The changes include: the bracketed sentence about "Darkness" in Sonic Riders was incorrect. I read on an official Sega page that "Darkness" are indeed the original airshoes, but they've been tweaked for additional speed. I added a Sonic the Comic Online section (please don't delete it, even though sega doesn't make it, it is still like halfway official and is quite popular on the net) and a bit about the mysteries still surrounding Shadow called,"Really the ultimate lifeform?" Please respect my writing!

BEEP! I'm sorry, everything you posted was incorrect. The "Really the Ultimate Lifeform" thing was speculation about something already confirmed. He's the original Shadow (Beat Shadow the Hedgehog). As for Darkness, cite a source. Fan couplings, and uncle to eggman stuff is unneeded, useless, and stuipid. Look at the edit page. "If you don't want your writing edited mercilesly, DON'T SUBMIT IT!" (or something to that extent). Sorry dude, but that was crap.-Chao9999 17:08, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Keep a respectful tone, Chao. --InShaneee 22:55, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh, to be honest, I really am sorry. It was just, I guess I've let my time with Wikipedia (editing for like, months, which isn't THAT much, I know) get to my head. It's just that THAT version was pretty bad. Sorry if I gave a bad impression there dude.-Chao9999 23:13, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sonic Next story

It's been commented that the current revision may be too long. I was wondering if we should revert to the description I wrote earlier this week:

Shadow is a playable character and has his own storyline which weaves with those of Sonic and new character Silver the Hedgehog. Now a government agent, Shadow encounters new villain Mephiles the Dark. Mephiles greatly resembles Shadow, due to using the latter's shadow to grant himself a physical form. Mephiles takes a special interest in Shadow as due to time travel Shadow had imprisoned Mephiles a decade prior in the Scepter of Darkness. Using his mastery of time travel, Mephiles reveals that in the future in which the monsterous Iblis roams free humanity would betray Shadow, reprogramming E-123 Omega to defeat and imprison him. Despite these attempts to break his resolve, Shadow (aided by a promise from Rouge that no matter what the future may bring she would never desert him) continued to fight back against Mephiles. When Mephiles achieved his goal of combining with Iblis into the stronger being known as Solaris, Super Shadow joined Super Sonic and Super Silver in a successful attempt to defeat the villain before it could devour time itself.--HellCat86 14:59, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Good job, HellCat! (claps) That's pretty much Shad's story in a nutshell. Aguni Dragon-OX 02:44, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes. I agree. If it hasn't been done, I'll do so. GrandMasterGalvatron 14:12, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Super Shadow

My my my, Chao9999, you hypocrit. Here you roast the rest of us making 'assumptions', now you're doing it and insisting it's the truth when the scene in question seems to suggest the "Sonic shared his power" explanation.--HellCat86 02:06, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Not only is this being discussed on the Silver talk, that was pretty rude. -Chao9999 02:19, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sorry!

Some jerk at my school thought he'd do me a "favor" by insulting Chao 9999 on my file. Sorry man! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 142.227.185.2 (talk) 14:25, 5 December 2006 (UTC).