Talk:Siege of Leningrad

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Contents 1 Disambiguation 2 Old talk 3 cannibalism? 4 Workers vs Employees 5 POV 6 Cleaning up english 7 Military significance? 8 Hehe 9 Wrong year ? 10 Vandalism 11 Non-sensical Sentence? 12 Combatants 13 caption for infobox image? 14 Setup for prebattle

[edit] Disambiguation

should this be under the disambig. page for Leningrad? Jds10912 00:48, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Old talk

An event mentioned in this article is a September 8 selected anniversary.

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Should this be "Dimitri Shostakovich" or "Dmitri Shostakovich"?

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I don't find it written anywhere that the Finns killed Leningrad Zoo's elephant. According to all sources I check it was a German bomb.

I'd heard it recounted as an example of coincidence that "The first shell fired by the German forces at the Siege of Leningrad killed nothing but the only elephant at Leningrad Zoo." If true this should probably be in the article. Tyrhinis 22:13, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

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"As a sad postscript, Stalin had the leaders of the city executed on various pretexts after the war — they had, through their bravery and courageous defence, earned a respect of the citizens that the dictator resented and feared, and became too independent in their actions. For example, in 1944 several streets of Leningrad were renamed back to their historic names, including "Prospect of 25 October", which reverted back to its previous name, Nevsky Prospekt."

This is POV. You cannot say that they were executed on pretexts, that Stalin "resented and feared" those who had the respect of the people, or that Stalin was even behind the executions. Source this stuff properly and distinguish facts from attributed claims. Everyking 06:47, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

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Can we have some description of the extent to which the Germans entered the city? For example what areas were overrun and what actual fighting was done by the defenders.--Korona 15:42, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

The Germans never set foot inside the city itself. DMorpheus 02:21, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] cannibalism?

Should any mention of the (supposed?) cannibalism that took place be added?

A German friend of mine, who felt terribly guilty about his country's past, once told me that by the end of the Siege of Leningrad, there was nary a dog, cat, rat, bird, or hamster alive in the city. If the elephant hadn't been killed by a bomb, he would probably have been stripped to the bones anyway.

Okay I have talked to some of my dad's friends about Leningrad. Thses guys had family members in the city when this was happening, they told what the survivors told him. Yes there is caninalism... the city was named after a Communist leader, its like Washington D.C. we would never give it up. Stalin and Hitler signed a Non-Agression Pact which said we dont fight at all. Well Hitler lied when he attacked on June 22nd 1941. So this got personal between Hitler and Stalin. I agree about what the writer above me said about animals being eaten, but also Humans ate humans. My Dad's friend told me that the sickest child that was going to die was to be sacraficed for the family. Written by Gabe Piuleac Story told by Egor...

[edit] Workers vs Employees

In the Food section, it twice refers to different ration levels for workers and employees (the workers had 600 grams of bread daily, employees - 400). Can someone explain what the difference is? Small black sun 03:42, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

• The food rations were different for rabochiy (manual workers), sluzhaschiy (any other employee of a state-owned establishment) and the izhdiventsy (dependants and all other people). abakharev 04:24, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
  • I put a little of this in, but I don't have russian letters on keyboard. Can someone put these words in () after the english designation

[edit] POV

As a sad postscript, Stalin had the leaders of the city executed on various pretexts after the war — they had, through their bravery and courageous defence, earned the respect of the citizens, which the dictator resented and feared, and became too independent in their actions. For example, in 1944 several streets of Leningrad were renamed back to their historic names, including "Prospect of 25th of October", which reverted to its previous name, Nevsky Prospekt.

Can anibody remove the POV? Besides, the example does not prove the first sentence.--Nixer 23:39, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleaning up english

I am cleaning up some of the english in this article (notably the use of articles and some punctuation). Note that I am also editing some quotes - I am assuming these are translations, and as such, am taking a few liberties with them (inserting commas, "of", etc).

[edit] Military significance?

Does anyone know the military significance of the siege? That might be worth adding.

Also why exactly they never surrendered.Who controlled the city from the inside? Was that German conditions or just plain fanatism? Its usually more rational to accept defeat and surrender then to take such casualties.Leningrad wasn't self-sufficient in the siege so the people who commanded it,were irrational fanatics.

I think if the city surrendered, it would be much more civil casualities. Hitler ordered to demolish the city as a whole. By the way, there were many military industry in rthe city and Leningrad-produced tanks were transported to Stalingrad for example.--Nixer 17:00, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Three things:

1. Leningrad was a major industrial center, one of the biggest in the USSR at the time. So the Soviets needed to hold it and, if the Germans could take it or cut it off, that production would be denied the rest of the country.

2. Leningrad had enormous symbolic significance as the 'cradle of the revolution' for both sides. For the Soviets, losing Leningrad would be a huge symbolic blow. For the Germans, one of the major reasons the nazis came to power was their anticommunism. Taking or destroying Leningrad would be a symbolic victory of great significance.

3. Finally, the fact that the Germans planned to surround, starve and raze the city tells us what their war was really about. It was a war of extermination. DMorpheus 13:45, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

It is not really correct to say that "one of the major reasons the nazis came to power was their anticommunism". Have a quick look a the article on the Weimar Republic and you will see that the combined number of votes and elected representatives of the Social Democrats and Communists was more than the Nazi's whose vote actually fell in the last election before they took over the state. If there had been unity on the left, the Nazi's would not have been able to take the path to power that they did and, who knows, history might have been very different! Dave Smith 00:59, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hehe

Someone added that the "shrapnel imbedded in the trees from the German artillery attracts lightning". Wow, is it true? --Brand спойт 16:08, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wrong year ?

In Soviet counter-offensive section is mentioned that the siege continued until January 1944. However in the next sentence is mentioned that counter ofensive started on january 12 1943. Which one is true ? It seems to me that it is some mistake here.

• Actually there were two different events known in Russian as "Proryv blokady" and "Snyatie blokady" (Breaching the Siege and Clearing the Siege). In January 1943 the Volkhov and Leningrad fronts met together so there became a land route to the sieged city over some 50 km wide strip of marshes. They even manage to hastily build a railroad over this strip. The Germans were still on the distance of a gun shot from the city and shelled it daily. The new railroad was also did not have the needed capacity. Thus, life in the city improved but it was still awful. In a year in January 1944 the Germans were driven from the city completely. abakharev 09:26, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

The paragraph headed "Aftermath - The War" seems to have been vandalised. What to do about putting this right? Dave Smith 12:08, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

• Fixed, thanks, Dave abakharev 12:27, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Non-sensical Sentence?

At the end of the Power and Energy section is the following sentence:

However there were neither instruments nor hostels for groups formed from girls and teens.

In the context of the section this makes no apparant sense, so I'll remove. The Kinslayer 12:58, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Combatants

How Finland was a combatant in the siege of Leningrad if no attacks or even bombings were made? Having border with USSR in Karelia doesn't mean you are a combatant, and Finland only attacked ships in Ladoga. Then again, Britain can be classed as combatant in Battle of Stalingrad because they harrassed German troops and supply ships in Africa, thus not so much supplies or troops available, if we take a rad-example. I don't think any sources mention Finland as a straight combatant but it it can be discussed, and already has quite large chapter in the article. --Pudeo (Talk) 11:22, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

EDIT: It also says that Axis Powers and Spanish Blue Division were combatants. I don't think different divisions have to mentioned, and Spanish Blue Division is German Heer division. What other other-than German Axis Powers' forces fought in the Siege? --Pudeo (Talk) 11:25, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Well considering the blue division was the army of Spain in world war two i think it is relevant that it is up there.

[edit] caption for infobox image?

Could somebody provide one? Gomm 01:54, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Setup for prebattle

In 1941, during Operation Barbarossa, German forces managed to actually get to a point where they could have successfully taken Leningrad with very few casualties. However, Hitler ordered his northern forces to "Dig in and hold ground", and this enabled the people of Leningrad to turn their city into a fortress. It was, yet again, German Command's incompetence that led to the fact that this siege lasted for such a long time.

Climie.ca 19:34, 13 March 2007 (UTC) Cam