Talk:Snowboarding
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[edit] Starting
I moved the duplicate article at snow boarding to here (in stead of the other way round), since it also wrote snowboarding in the text. Jeronimo 00:21 Jul 26, 2002 (PDT)
[edit] Removed Getting Started Section
I removed the getting started section. Wikipedia is not an instruction manual. [[1]] This section was very long compared to the length of the rest of the article, and the information could be obtained better by visitng another website. Stephenbez 22:09, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
When I came to the Wiki I expected more details on how the learning process worked so when I found they weren't there I decided to make a contribution and add the details. I didn't realise that it directly contravened the WP:NOT#IINFO policy. I have moved the getting started section to my [personal website] for anyone interested in what used to be on the Wiki.
[edit] Grammar
I'm thinking about revising this entry as a whole. It doesn't read like an Encyclopedic entry, and has various grammatical errors.
--Alop 14:05, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
- Please do - this article needs a lot of work. A lot of it is written in a very conversational (and inconsistent) style, especially the technique section, which might not even belong in the entry at all. Kjl 20:51, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
[edit] history?
How about a section on the history of the sport? I'm not familiar with details but from memory and some googling here is a start:
The "Snurfer: was invented in 1965 by Sherm Poppin when he attached two skiis together, tied a rope to the front and gave it to his daughter to play with in the Muskegon, Michigan snow. He went to the local Brunswick company and got them to produce the boards, and his wife gave it the name. The first ones were yellow with large, industrial grade staples that stuck up far enough to get a good grip with your snowmobile boots, at least until you caked so much snow onto them that your feet slid off. The rope was yellow, the bottom was smooth and there was no rudder. You rubbed ski wax onto the wood, but it made little difference. They were originally marketed to be used on the Muskegon sand dunes in both the winter and the summer. Having tried that as a kid, I can report that the sand stuck to the wax, and if you got any momentum going down the biggest of the three sugar bowl hills, the snurfer soon grabbed hold of the sand and threw you bodily and usually face first into the hot sand. After a few years, Brunswick introduced the Pro Snurfer model which had a laminated wood design, and small white plastic spikes on the top which afforded slightly better traction. The rope was white. This model included a 5" metal rudder that extended out of the center contoured bottom surface about a half inch. By the mid seventies, Muskegon Community College sponsored an annual "World Wide Snurfer Competition" on a remote hill behind the Muskegon landmark "Blockhouse." If you got there early enough you parked in the Blockhouse parking lot and hiked back to the site. They put up a plastic banner and someone carried a folding table all the way out there, at which you could sign up and get your number - which you pinned to your cool 1970's snow vest. You then proceeded to practice on the hill with fifty or so other early enthusiasts. By the time the competition began at 9:00, the hill was a sheet of sheer ice. To do well, you had to stand up all the way to the bottom of the hill - which had two plateaus in it. Usually people wipped out after the second little plateau. The guys who won perfected a sort of push off with one foot while not slipping off the back foot and then holding it steady and straight on the ice. I was in that competition the year Burton showed up with his board. We snurfer elitists thought he was a major pain in the a**, and an enteloper and not a snurfer at all. His presence threw a real curve ball into the competition, who ultimately decided to create a separate Burton board division, so we purists could continue to compete as true snurfers and not be bothered by him.
[edit] Pioneers
- Sherman Poppin's - Snurfer
- Dimitrije Milovich - Winterstick
- Jake Burton Carpenter - Burton Snowboards
- Bob Webber-Yellow banana
[edit] Evolution and growth
- early snowboard designs...
- Snowboarders being banned some most ski resorts
- snowboarder culture
- Redjar 19:44, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Terms used in snowboarding?
It would be perhaps helpful if someone could write a section or two about snowboard terms like regular style, goofy style, fakie position et cetera.
Other specific snowboarding accessories like the leash (snowboard) or lockleash should be mentioned as well... Marcika 22:06, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)
[edit] not-so-good pictures
I suggest removing the two pictures of some guy carrying a snowboard from this article.. IMHO they are not useful at all: They do not depict any snowboarding technique, and the board itself is barely visible. Please comment, otherwise I am going to remove the pictures soon. -- Ravn 10:20, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
I second the removal of those crap pictures... There has to be some people around with some pics of some of the big free Style moves.
Both photographs show boarders "getting air". While these are entertaining, a shot of a rider actually in the snow relates more to the topic. Like this one of a nice heelside turn ... Toeside 13:54, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Equipment
The discussion of equipment duplicates a lot of information in the Snowboard article. Would it make more sense to merge that information and eliminate any duplication or redundancy? --Elkman 21:09, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
- I went ahead and merged the discussion of equipment into Snowboard as I proposed. Most of the text from that article included the facts from this article, but I kept all of the relevant information. --Elkman 04:16, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Brands
The brands list seems completely random to me. Random in both the order (who put Tassle, Airblaster, Rome SDS, and Grenade Gloves above Burton?), and the members (e.g. it has small, random accessory manufacturers that make only gloves, hats or goggles, but not major/venerable snowboard manufacturers such as Sims, Winterstick, etc.). I made a token effort to put major board manufacturers up top and accessory brands at the bottom, but it's really hard to keep up with all the new brands that come up all the time. Feel free to correct it. Kjl 21:04, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Technique
The technique section is very conversationally written, and perhaps is not really in the scope of an encyclopedic entry anyways. Should this whole section be nuked? Proper technique, even for the basics, is widely varying depending on who you talk to. Should this article teach Swiss CERN style, AASI style, or something else? Rotation or counterrotation turns? There are external links to a couple of "how-to" web pages at the bottom, and people should really be learning how to ski and board from a certified instructor anyways, in my opinion... Kjl 04:15, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
- I'd agree that it's quite important for beginners to take lessons from a certified instructor. I have a book (The Snowboard Book: A Guide for All Boarders by Lowell Hart) that has an entire chapter on beginning snowboarding. There's no way that chapter can be covered in Wikipedia to a level that can be beneficial to a beginning snowboarder. I suppose I could try to summarize the steps involved in learning, as a way to give the prospective boarder a taste of what it's like, but the real instruction should be done in person. --Elkman 04:21, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
Well, I went ahead and yanked the entire technique section. Wikipedia is not an instruction manual. I feel bad since there was clearly a lot of work put into it, but it wasn't comprehensive (e.g. it had information on how to do backflips but not, say, how to simply turn) and doesn't belong here anyways. It seems to me that there is room for a technique section, but that it should not actually include instructions, but instead highlight the differences between different snowboarding techniques, such as Swiss CERN style, French style, US AASI style, etc., but I don't know enough about them to write the article myself. Kjl 18:52, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
I agree that there shouldn't be detailed instructions on how to snowboard. As a beginner, I wouldn't go by what a book or article has to say, I think it is smarter to go and get hands on training. I didn't get private lessons, but it still helped because I got the basics, and did pretty well for my first time. It is definitley not an easy sport, but it is so much fun, and worth the effort. On the other hand although I don't agree with having instructions, I do think there should at least be a description of the technique, so we beginners know what you are talking about. For example, "Swiss CERN style" I have no clue what that is. Anyways, if you are thinking about trying snowboarding, I definitely recommend it. LeslieZ
[edit] Remove Brands/Videos/Famous Snowboarders
I'd like to suggest to remove the three sections above. The article is quite lengthy, and these lists are not useful to someone reading an encyclopedic article to learn about snowboarding. At the limit, they could be moved to articles of their own (List of..). As some snowboarders have got articles, I'd suggest to add them to a Category:Snowboard athlete or Category:Snowboarder and link to that category in this article. -- Ravn 12:56, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Falling over
Though I have read it in many snowboarding guide-books, I think the advice: "If falling forward, make your hands into fists and land on your knuckles" is ill-advised. It's unintuitive and a likely to result in broken fingers. The advice to wear well-fitting armour is sound, especially wrist-guards. After breaking a wrist and knocking myself unconcious (on separate occasions), I can't believe how stoopid I was to consider riding without at least wrist-guards and a helmet.
- All the more reason to nuke the whole technique section. There is no agreed-upon technique for instruction, and shouldn't be in an encyclopedic entry anyways. e.g. there are no piano lessons on wikipedia either. Kjl 17:29, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
Looking at it again, I agree. All that is required is a suitable warning about the risk of injury, the benefits of armour and a suggestion that proper instruction is essential for most people.
-
- I learned at the time that you should always crouch, when you fall. No matter the direction, it reduces your falling height and thus the risk of injury. Landing on the knuckles seems to me quite stupid (and only works well at low speed when you ride a ducky stance) - I'd rather try to roll or slide to catch the fall. Just my 2 cents -- Ravn 16:14, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Reverting some edits
I'm undoing the (re)addition of the "Carving" section from the "Disciplines" list, as it is already covered under "Alpine". Also, there were a whole bunch of changes in that revision (by Vert, 20 Nov 2005) that reintroduced some typos, bad grammar, bad wikipedia style, etc. from a very old version of this article, so I'm going to assume most of that was an accidental copy-paste or some such from an old copy of the article or something. I'm mostly undoing those edits.
- nice work --Ralphy 09:16, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Too many "wannabe" experts
The problem with this topic is the kind of people it appeals to: they want to be experts but some have doubtless never seen snow.
So many deletions, poor edits, lack of real understanding of snowboarding.
People with nothing to add, so they come back time and again to "improve" the article by deleting or editing other people's contributions!
e.g. "carving is already covered under alpine" so I'm nuking this section!
Great, carving isn't a very important topic! Let's talk more about coool boards, "dude"! Rad man!
Vert 21:26, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
- The main section was "Disciplines", the topic sentence of which was "There are 4 primary sub-disciplines or sub-styles", which were: freestyle, freeride, alpine, and backcountry. Adding "carving" made it 5, and "carving" is not really a sub-style in the spirit of the ones above (e.g. freeriders, freestylers, alpine riders, and backcountry riders can all carve). Carving is obviously an important topic (I am actually a hardbooter myself), but where should it be discussed? Skiiers carve, too. Kjl 17:47, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
I would hate to agree with someone who is as arrogant as "Vert", but there does seem to be misleading information. For example, the article seems to suggest that only Alpine Snowboarding puts emphasis on carving which is far from the case, any snowboarder who has been around longer than a week will depend almost entirely on carving to turn, only beginners skidd the snowboard.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 04:51, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
- I'm probably an example of a wannabe expert - like many people I find an article because I want to learn about the topic, then see that it could be improved. So go easy on us :) This article could be improved with definitions of basic tricks and terminology, which used to be in 'Techniques'. Basic stuff like toeside/heelside, types of spins, flips, ollies etc. Not from a "how to do it" perspective, but just knowing what you're seeing. Stevage 12:43, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
- There's is almost nothing worth saving in this article; the treatment of virtually every aspect of the sport is shallow at best, and at worst, confused and misleading. For instance, including carving as a discipline makes no sense; carving turns is a technique, used for control at high speed. It is no more a discipline than side-sliding or stopping. Contrary to the comment above, not only beginners slide turns as there are many situations when carving is either not practical or impossible. Carving turns requires increasing edge angle, which requires significant speed; at low speeds, carving is not possible. Moreover, the sidecut radius of the board determines the shape and size of a carved turn; boards with deep sidecuts carve tighter turns, while boards with shallow sidecuts carve longer, faster turns. Terrain features (trees, moguls, rocks) often limit the kind of turns that can be made; if you don't believe me try riding through the trees and only carving. Slope angle also affects carving, as shallow pitches are often too slow, and very steep ones (45 degrees and up) require jump turns. What is important to remember when discussing various techniques is that terrain influences riding style, not the other way around. A good rider adapts to the terrain, and applies the most suitable technique to that terrain. Carving is just a tool, and though it is much more advanced than sliding turns, it can not be used exclusively. Baoluo 11:35, 6 May 2006
This article appears to be heavily weighted toward freestyle to the detriment of freeride and alpine. I'd suggest adopting AASI's Y model to address the various disciplines of the sport (no sense in re-inventing the wheel). Those three sections are: Freestyle (Park & Pipe), Freeride (Backcountry, steeps, bumps and powder) and Alpine (Carving: groomers and gates). Suggest that the section on Freestyle be moved to it's own article (Freestyle snowboarding) and stub out a Freeride snowboarding section and then add references to the three types of riding styles from this main snowboarding article. Thanks for everyone's contributions! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.18.247.88 (talk • contribs).
[edit] US centric
hiya i have a problem with this section from the backcountry part "Today, backcountry snowboarding is often for those who have enough to cash to afford trips to Alaska or the mountain ranges of the West" this point of view tottally ignores the fact that the rest of the world apart from USA [yes we do exist] enjoy snowboarding [unsigned]
- The whole article is almost completely US centric. Please fix it. :) Stevage 14:25, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Construction
so i moved some info from the intro into its own section (construction), and then noticed that an article on this topic already exists. I propose merging that article into this one. If you think this article is too big, perhaps it needs to be divided into multiple articles, perhaps an article for each discipline, which would permit elaborating on different snowboarders and events within the discipline. trimming this article would also allow us to add sections on events, sponsorship, board types, brands, athletes, even culture (inc. prehaps fashion and music), Maybe a wikiproject: snowboarding is in order? or did i miss the boat on this one? Shaggorama 07:55, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
- That article should be merged into Snowboard, not into Snowboarding. This article is about the sport, that one is about snowboards themselves. Stevage 11:46, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
- That is an excellent idea. I absolutely second that. And you know what? Maybe a wikiproject is a little much, we'd probably jsut need 5 articles or so to be written.Shaggorama 09:16, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
i disagree totally the act of making a snowboard and snowboarding are entirely different simply the snowboard construction article should be expanded i.e. i oppose the merger
- I think the manner of construction strongly affects the performance of the board, and the style for which it is designed. In fact, different styles of board really only differ in construction. Something to consider. Of course, as it stands, the snowboard article is farily long.Shaggorama 11:22, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
- I oppose the idea of merging the articles. What I do see is that the construction of a snowboard article can still be extended in many ways. Discussing the Top Layer (and application of Graphics), discuss the sidecut construction (cap, sandwich, half cap), discuss the sidecut radiuses and directionality of a snowboard, discuss the importance of these to the style that they can be used for. I think this is a very good website with a lot of useful information I could not find elsewhere about snowboard construction http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/211_fall2002.web.dir/Marvin%20Casanova/construction.htm --VasilySlesarenko 23:12, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Snowboarding vs skiing
The text in here simply makes no sense, I'm not sure what the original writer was trying to say though, so I am unable to correct it. James. --212.159.78.192 10:01, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Picture links
The picture links in this article are broken. Does anyone know how to fix it? If not some new pictures should be put on. 206.183.140.125 15:26, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] New tone and verify tags
A whole lot of this article sounds like it was written by people who have been snowboarding and have an opinion; but that's not encyclopedic, everything needs to come from a verifiable reference. I see only one reference down at the bottom of this article and it's obvious that most of the material in this article didn't come from there. The tone of the article is also a problem, especially in places where it reads like a "how-to" guide ("In places where almost all of the runs are groomed, and powder is a rare find, you must venture into the tree trails"). —Cleared as filed. 14:08, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Competitive snowboarding
Given that this is now an Olympic sport, someone needs to write a section on competition snowboarding that covers rules, point system (?) etc. soverman 22:37 21 Feb 2006 (UTC)
I agree with you. As there is still no section about it, I would like to look into that. But high level Snowboarding is not only shown at the Olympics, connected to the FIS (the International Skiing Federation) - there is also an organisation called the TTR - ticket to ride - World Snowboard Tour (www.ttrworldtour.com). There is still no article about it either and I would like to add it also. --MediaDawg 10:17, 25 October 2006
[edit] snowboarding
what are the times and the dates of the snowboarding events in the 2006 winter olympics?
- See Snowboarding at the 2006 Winter Olympics, although I think the snowboarding events are pretty much over. The closing ceremonies are tomorrow night (on tape delay where I am, anyway). --Elkman 03:51, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] links
I noticed Dryslope Snowboarding was added as a link. I don't see a reson to keep it as a link in the artilce. I nobody objects we should remove it, or say why it deservs to stay.--E-Bod 13:53, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
- Looks like spam to me. If you agree then go ahead and remove it and warn the user about spamming Ralphy 15:35, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
A link has recently been added to http://www.frostyrider.com/. This is potentially spam and perhaps should be removed. Can anyone else please offer an opinion on this? Many thanks Ralphy 08:32, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] getting started
Doesn't seem germaine (less informative than instructive) and only adds to the lengthiness. You don't see anything like this is surfing/skateboarding/etc. Too similar to the "technique" section that got nuked. Think it would be better a link.
I have found some great articles on basics of buying boards and how to maintain them etc. here snowboard review
[edit] freestyle
whats with the line "This gives boarders slower speeds, high landing impacts, quick turns, and imperfect landings."
sounds like hostility to me (a dedicated expert snowboarder, ask me q's for this article at alex_mul(at)hotmail.com). high impact landings? well what do you think happens when you fly off a 20 foot tall jump... alex 207.233.32.18 19:29, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Rewrite
This article was terrible, so I re-wrote some of this article to change the tone back to sound like an encyclopedia. I'm also suggesting that we get a better photo of a snowboard setup, and maybe include a slopestyle type photo. Volitant 23:17, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks much, still plenty of improvement possible. Take some nice shots of your gear and immortalize them ;). ∴ here…♠ 02:11, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Fixed messy edit
the article went slightly haywire, so I reverted it back
ManicParroT 20:29, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Removed Random List of Snowboarding Videos
I removed the list of snowboarding videos. It doesn't help the article especially since all it lists is there name, and there is no notability criteria. Maybe if a few of these videos were described in more detail, or why they are important, then it would be helpful to the article. I moved the list into talk.
Other snowboard movies: It Ain't Easy, Patchwork Patterns, Thunk, Fire Fight, That, One Love, State of Mind, Burton Process (1-5), Follow Me Around, People, 91 Words For Snow, First Descent, The Gap Session, Escramble, Neoproto, Everyday Something, Some Kinda Life, Decade, Technical Difficulties, Stand and Deliver, Amp, Pulse, Shakedown, From _ with Love, The Community Project, DC Mountain Lab, Afterbang, Lame, After Lame, Attack of the Living Shred, Revenge of the Grenerds, Smell the Glove, Vivid, Pop, Futureproof, More, Wildcats, Destroyer, Happy Hour.
Some Film Companies:
MDP (Mack Dawg Productions), Whiteout Films, EPI Films, Think Thank, BlankPaper Studios, Standard Films, Robot Food, Defective Films, Absinthe Films.
Stephenbez 05:55, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Added History Section
I added a history section. This was taken from an old revision of the snowboard article: Revision as of 02:47, 3 December 2006. This section needs improvement, especially the first paragraph. Stephenbez 06:28, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Freeride/back country
While there is a good freestyle section, there is no section that encompasses back country riding. I think this section would help show the more recreational side of snowboarding. Thehamburglar 04:45, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Tindy Pic Must Go
The photo in the "Freestyle snowboarding" section labeled "frontside tail grab" is NOT A TAIL GRAB, it is a TINDY, which is considered terribly bad form by more knowledgeable & advanced riders. That pic cannot remain on the page and to continue to label it a tail grab is just plain wrong. --Raoul Duke 20:59, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Uk 'impossibility of snow'
I'd like someone to try and remember SCOTLAND. WHERE THERE IS SNOW EVERY YEAR AND SKI RESORTS.
Is everyone so short sighted so that the UK becomes 'inglund and irlund lolz' .
sorry about that, this just a major bugbear of mine. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.109.217.211 (talk)
[edit] Vandalization of at least one copy of article
On at least one copy of this page, some has inserted "GAY GAY GAY ..." throughout the history section and some of the initial text was replaced with the same. After logging in I was redirected away from that copy of the page. Just keep an eye out for it.
Josh 16:38, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
- Yeah, that tends to happen a lot on Wikipedia, to just about every page on a popular topic. Fortunately, it's usually reverted quickly. Jhinman 06:38, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] freestyle snowboarding
Who changed the entry on freestyle snowboarding? Snowboarding owes nothing to inline skating; freestyle snowboarding predates freestyle inline skating by at least a decade, and other than the feet being securely attached, the activities share almost no similarities. A comparison between inline skating and skiing might hold some water, but this description of freestyle snowboarding is fatuous. Snowboarding is often compared to skateboarding for a number of valid reasons; firstly, many snowboard pioneers were skateboarders as well, and so adapted what they knew from skating and applied it to snowboarding. Secondly, despite the existence of bindings, snowboarding and skating use a virutally identical stance, and very similar body mechanics. Lastly, a great number of skateboarding concepts and tricks (frontside, backside, ollie, 180s, 360s, cabalaerials, mctwists) exist (virtually unmodified) in skateboarding. Whoever wrote the current entry is quite obviously, not much of a snowboarder. (Baoluo 01:42, 7 March 2007 (UTC))
