Talk:Sviatoslav Richter

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Contents 1 First name of Neuhaus 2 Wife 3 Pierre Fournier 4 Homosexual 5 Sexuality 6 Grange de Meslay Festival 7 Image 8 Russian, Ukrainian, or Soviet? 9 new citation 10 The Greatest Pianist of all Time?

[edit] First name of Neuhaus

Thanks to whoever wrote this, it's a good entry. Just one query - do you (or anybody else) know the first name of this Neumann chap who taught Richter and also taught Horowitz? We'll probably eventually have entries on more than one person called Neumann, so it'll be useful to know his first name. I'll be able to look it up this week sometime, but in the meantime, it'd be good if you could add it to the article if you know it. --Camembert

(later - now it's been added) Thanks! As usual, my "later this week" turned into "some time in the next century" ;-) --Camembert

PS that was Neuhaus of course, not Neumann!

[edit] Wife

Is it really true that Richter and Dorliac married in 1946? I have heard otherwise, so that's why I mention it here.

Says so on the sleeve notes to my CD (http://www.pluto.no/KulturSpeilet/faste/cd/Pianists_Richter.html is the one). What did you hear? William M. Connolley 21:42, 25 October 2005 (UTC).

http://my.dreamwiz.com/fischer/srichter/srichter-e.htm says yes; http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/sviatoslavrichter/message/4 says maybe; elsewhere on the Internet it says variously Nina was his common-law wife, that she was "Richter's 'wife'" (so expressed), and that a marriage was celebrated six months after S.R.'s death. I believe it would certainly be true to say they were constant companions and lived together since the 1940s. However I do not know the strict facts beyond that. PS No mention of marriage is made in the Bruno Monsaingeon film "Richter: the Enigma" or the book version "Richter: Notebooks and Conversations".

I'd trust sleevenotes over something quoted on the internet from the Telegraph. Without something a bit more definitive I can't see any great reason to doubt it. Unless... that article also says he was homosexual... is that what you mean? William M. Connolley 23:56, 24 November 2005 (UTC).

[edit] Pierre Fournier

I removed a reference to Pierre Fournier until I find some evidence that these two performed together. Lpgeffen 21:48, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

A. Tanin's "Recorded Richter" shows that SR and Fournier played together in 1969, but it's not enough to match Oistrakh or Rostropovich. Lpgeffen 16:36, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Homosexual

I removed the sentence "They did not marry because Richter was homosexual." because it is conjecture. Richter did not explain why he wasn't married. As far as I know, his biographers didn't ask him. I don't dispute that Richter was homosexual. This is widely rumored but I am reluctant to treat is as a fact, especially in this context, as it was never asserted by Richter himself. But I would be happy to discuss it further. Lpgeffen 15:23, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

I'd already asked the user (1st edit) to add more on sources here. Pavel Vozenilek 17:35, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sexuality

I removed the following paragraph from the article. It needs more sources, at least.

One of the well kept "secrets" of Sviatoslav Richter's life was that he was almost certainly a homosexual [1]. His relationship with partner Nina Dorliac was obviously a close friendship, but it is acknowledged by scholars of Richter that the relationship existed primarily to protect him from Soviet society at the time. Richter is on record in Bruno Monsaigeon's movie The Enigma as having said he was followed constantly while on tour in the states by watchful Soviets. It is openly acknowledged by Richter that he was in a constant state of panic because government agents followed him everywhere. This fear was almost certainly partially derived from the fact that the "policy" towards homosexuality in Russia at the time was highly toxic. Even Nikolai Zverev, the finest teacher in Moscow, was notorious for his homosexuality. The Axiom in Russia was, "Everything in private, nothing in public [2]." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lpgeffen (talk • contribs) 19:07, 1 January 2007 (UTC).

Thank you Lpgeffen for removing that paragraph. I was about to do it myself. I have consistently checked this article, and from time to time unknown users have posted similar paragraphs/sentences regarding Mr. Richter’s sexuality. Along with occasional explicit advertisements displayed on this article’s website ([1]), Dr. Dan Healey’s sensational and slightly pornographic article on the oppression of Homosexuals in the USSR makes no references at all to Sviatoslav Richter. Also after personally viewing Monsaigeon’s film several times and reading Sviatoslav Richter: Notebooks and Conversations (Princeton University Press, 2001), I can’t help but to conclude about the following things that the vandalistic paragraph states.

1. It was probably true Richter was aware “that Government agents followed him everywhere.”

2. But due to the tone of the novel, film and his other contacts, Richter himself never mentioned anywhere and apparently was never “in a constant state of panic” because of Soviet Authorities.

As a result of this persistent insensitive vandalism, I believe this article should be granted semi-protection at the very least. Vilmosgelb 09:23, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

My apologies, I looked at that article again, and found only this sentence which briefly mentions Richter and for me, only appears to suggest that Richter was homosexual. Here it is.

'"Great talents such as Sergei Eisenstein and Sviatoslav Richter married to make their peace with an economy offering only one patron: the state (Karlinsky 1989: 361-2)."'

Am unable to find this Karlinsky that Healey sourced in his article and I don’t think this brief and vague reference is reliable or factual. Vilmosgelb 21:33, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

In my opinion this is ridiculous speculation. I've seen so much modern gossip about whether great artists were homosexuals -- da Vinci, Glenn Gould, etc. In most cases it seems to be complete rubbish: there is usually ample evidence to the contrary that is hardly acknowledged. Stop the sensationalist crap; incredibly talented people who devote their lives to an art often have trouble finding an understanding partner.

[edit] Grange de Meslay Festival

I have been told this story by a couple of French people from Tours (Grange de Meslay is near Tours) whom I met once while travelling in Helsinki but I don't know if it is true.

The organisers of the Grange de Meslay festival hired a superb grand Stanway piano for the first festival. Richter liked it so much that he took its reference number and the next year he asked them to hire the same one. A few years went like that. Then the organisers of the festival were advised that this piano was to be sold. They gathered with difficulty the huge amount of money needed to buy it, wanting to make Richter a surprise for the next festival. When the time came to hire the Steinway again Richter let them know that he had now switched to Yamaha and that he wished them to hire a Yamaha piano for the next festival.

Wikip 10:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image

Does anybody have a good image to upload for this article? (I have one, but can't find the copyright status) —  $PЯINGεrαgђ  23:07, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Russian, Ukrainian, or Soviet?

This has gone back and forth a few times now. Some edits to the page have changed the word "Russian" in the first sentence to "Soviet" and others have changed it back. It doesn't change often, but it's a low-frequency "edit war" nonetheless.

I have changed it to say "Russian pianist of the Soviet era" as a neutral term or phrase that might help to avoid this instability.

George, 11 Feb 2007: "Russian pianist of the Soviet era" is certainly better than "Ukrainian pianist...", which is a major misrepresentation. First of all, Ukraine did not exist as an independent state when Richter was born. It was a province (as indeed the very word 'Ukraine' suggests) of the Russian Empire. "Soviet pianist" is a much more accurate term as Richter is, beyond doubt, a representative of the Moscow school and received his training during the Soviet era. Besides, being referred to as a "Soviet citizen/pianist" was a preference expressed on a few occasions by Richter himself. If Richter is a "Ukrainian pianist of the Soviet era", then Horowitz is surely a Ukrainian pianist too. Now that certainly makes little sense.

Paul 20:49, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

... but it didn't help. The sentence has been changed twice in the last few days, first to Ukranian, now back to Russian. I hope that editors will stop to discuss this here before making another change. -- Paul (User:Lpgeffen)

Another way to complicate the matter is to consider that Richter was an important example of the Russian School of piano technique and interpretation. This is not a well-defined category, and his nationality is also not well-defined.

Consider:

• Richter was born in the Ukraine before the Soviet Union existed.
  • (Was the Ukraine part of Russia in 1915?)
• He studied in Moscow (Russia) with Heinrich Neuhaus (Russian/German).
• His professional career was under the Soviet system.

[edit] new citation

Monsaigeon's book quotes Richter as saying that he learned the Prokofiev Sonata no. 7 in "just four days" (page 79 in the Princeton edition) but Richter does not say that he learned the Bach WTC II in a month. Instead, on page 52 he says he learned it "in the autumn of 1943," which implies two or three months. Paul 19:05, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Greatest Pianist of all Time?

I love Richter as much as the next piano enthusiast, but this is unsourced. We don't find language nearly as enthusiastic regarding Gilels, either.

The link which is explicitly cited inline says that "Sviatoslav Richter was arguably the greatest pianist of the twentieth century.". See [3]. Grover cleveland 19:52, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

True, the article in the link does say that. However, articles could be found which would say the same thing about Arthur Rubinstein or Vladimir Horowitz. Isn't quoting one link from a second rate (in my opinion) music guide going a bit overboard? Oh, and I think the person above meant Gilels! THD3 20:24, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

In my opinion, the phrase "widely recognized as one of the great pianists of the 20th century" is praise enough but some writers have gone further. It is also clear that Richter inspires passionate and even fanatical enthusiasm in some of his listeners. If we take out the "arguably the greatest" part then someone will feel compelled to reinstate it. I would prefer to keep the discussion here and not risk an edit war. -- Paul 23:01, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree, Good-Music-Guide is not a reputable (nor widely-recognized) sorce to quote in the opening paragraph. There is too much emphasis put on "greatness" in the opening paragraph. The very statement "greatest of all" begs questioning. Unless someone else feels the need to rate pianists on a "greatness" scale from 1 to 10, then I'll remove it for now Gordon Freeman 21:54, 15 February 2007 (UTC)