Talk:Tampa, Florida/Archive 2

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

This section is archived. For current and latest discussions, please see Talk:Tampa, Florida.

Contents 1 Sports teams in Tampa 2 Shopping Centers 3 Radio 4 Tampa article needs cleaning up 5 Shopping Centers 6 Tampa In The Movies 7 Sunshine skyway 8 Servers are here

Sports teams in Tampa

May I suggest that instead of fighting over whether major sports teams based in Pinellas County should be listed in the Tampa article, that you move of this stuff to Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, Florida, Metropolitan Statistical Area, and link there from the city articles. -- Dalbury^(Talk) 17:32, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

By your command... - Aerobird 18:47, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Someone keeps deleting all of Tampa's Sports Teams! And putting them on the metropolitan area page... Being a season ticket holder with the Bucs since Day 1 in 1976, and a graduate of the University of South Florida, we need our teams listed on Tampa's page. They could also be listed on the metropolitan area page. If anything, this town is a huge supporter of sports competition, and they give Tampa national recognition, so to not list them on Tampa's page is ridiculous...

They were moved to Tampa Bay Area because St. Petersburg teams kept cropping up in the Tampa listing. If the St Pete teams had ever stayed deleted, the Tampa teams would have been left. But noooo..... - Aerobird 01:07, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

You must work for Rose Ferlita! We'll see what 620 WDAE, Steve Duemig, thinks about this wikipedia page...and your editing. And what Pam Iorio thinks as well. I would suggest you leave the Tampa Bay Devil Rays on the Tampa page. You can put them on a St. Pete page too, to make yourself happy, if ya want...

To anon. editor above, what does city councilwoman Rose Ferlita or 620 WDAE have to do with editing sports teams in the Tampa article. The fact is that all sports teams in the area have the name Tampa Bay in them, NOT Tampa, not St. Petersburg ect... Rather, the teams should be on the Tampa Bay Area page.

P.S.: Speaking of WDAE, As the late great Chris Thomas used to say, there should be UNITY IN THE COMMUNITY not just Tampa or St. Petersburg or Plant City...you know what I mean. --Moreau36 01:33, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Here's the article that explains the Rose Ferlita reference and how she crossed wires with our Mayor's statement that the Devil Rays are Tampa's home team: http://www.620wdae.com/localsportsstory.html?ID=20060121131210

I work for no man, beast, or other intelligent life form other than myself. I simply follow the common-sense rules of geography. Team not located in the City of Tampa? Voila, team not on the City of Tampa's page. - Aerobird 18:43, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

You should be working for the Wikipedia community and its efforts to build an informative web page for everyone's use. Not just for yourself. Its not just the geography of where a Team is located. It's who the team represents. The Tampa Bay Devil Rays represent Tampa, as well as all of the other cities in our great bay area. The team isn't named the St. Pete Devil Rays. Or the Clearwater Devil Rays. They are named Tampa for a reason, as Tampa is the dominant city in the bay area. And to establish UNITY IN THE COMMUNITY they could be listed on all the regions specific pages. But they most definitely should not be left off the Tampa page. Its insulting to MLB and all the citizens of Tampa to do that. Please put the Devil Rays back on the Tampa page too. Thank you,

That is simply preposterous-- please note that none of these teams are named, "Tampa X;" they are all named "Tampa Bay X." The main set of information should be on the MSA page. I would suggest one further change to the description here by making clear these are sports teams "in the area," since the Rays do not play in Tampa, and in fact play a good half hour away. ALC Washington 00:02, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Who would want to buy a t-shirt or a hat that says "The Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, Florida, Metropolitan Statistical Area (X)" to support their team?? What-a-joke! The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim of Southern California and North Orange County is bad enough, and is the source of enough jokes on ESPN and late night talk shows already. The reason "Bay" is included on our team names is to try to pull everyone together. Just about every city in the USA has a metropolitan area and their sports teams are listed on BOTH the main city name and an area page on Wikipedia. Look at this page: List of North American cities by number of major sports teams

First of all, could you stand to sign your name on your posts? It's common courtesy around here. Second, Tampa is not the "main city" in the Bay Area, just as San Francisco is not the "main city" in that Bay Area. To say so only shows a very narrow parochialism. Third, no one is suggesting we rename the Rays or Bucs or Lightning the Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater MSA X. It's not relevant to the dicsussion here. What is relevant is that 1) these teams represent the entire area, not just Tampa, and 2) the Rays do not play in Tampa. As a result, you should feel free to list on this page the teams that represent the area, but it should be noted for purposes of accuracy that the Rays play in St. Petersburg. This seems to be what everyone else has agreed to, but what your IP adddress keeps changing. ALC Washington 16:28, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Tampa most certaintly is the main city in the Tampa Bay M.S.A. Are u saying that St.petersbrug is a larger or more noticable city than Tampa. If you've noticed, the Tampa Bay area teams stadiums are located in Tampa with the exception of The Tampa Bay Devil Rays. Not to disrespect Clearwater or St.petersburg, but most people would say that Tampa is the main city of the Tampa- St.Petersburg- Clearwater metropoltian area. -VG

Just for the fun of it, I ran the 2000 population figures. The Jacksonville Metro Area has a population of 1,214,124, and only has one major league sports team. It is also the second smallest market with an NFL team, after Green Bay. Now tell me that Tampa or even all of Hillsborough County would have any major league teams on its own. It is Tampa Bay as a whole that forms a big enough market to bring in those major league teams, and Pinellas County is only slightly smaller than Hillsborough County.

Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, Florida Metropolitan Statistical Area ..2,589,637

Hillsborough County .......................................................998,948 38.5%

Pinellas County ...........................................................921,482 35.6%

Pasco County ..............................................................344,765 13.3%

Hernando County ...........................................................130,802 05.0%

Tampa .....................................................................321,772 12.4%

St. Petersburg ............................................................248,232 09.6%

Clearwater ................................................................108,606 04.2%

-- Dalbury^(Talk) 02:41, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Hey ALC Washington, you live in Washington, and the UK. A fine city and a wonderful country, but leave the Tampa Sports wikipedia page to those of us who live here. Your choice of words and descriptions just are not accurate.

Hi there. I am glad you think highly of Washington and the UK. Allow me to address some of your concerns. 1) I lived in the Tampa Bay Area for eight years, and still visit often as I still have family in the area. So if you meant to imply that I do not have proper knowledge of Tampa Bay Area sports to edit this page, in that you are incorrect. 2) Do you mean to say that none of my most recent revision, in its "choice of words and descriptions" is accurate? If so, could you please point out where each of my individual revisions is inacurate, to include the revisions made for grammar, style, and wiki-formatting? I understand that you are a guest to Wikipedia, as you don't sign your name, and as this page's history reveals. Perhaps you misundertsand some of the basic guidelines. Here is most of the information you will need to get started. 5) In the mean time, while I appreciate your input, I have reverted the page back to my previous edit, which reflects the consensus developed by a large number of Wikipedians on this talk page. 6) After you have learned some of the editing ground rules, please feel free to come back to this talk page and discuss ideas you have to make this page better! Welcome to Wikipedia! ALC Washington 20:27, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Cool that you have some Tampa connections. But I don't understand your wholesale changes to the site. And don't agree with your conclusions about the Wikipedians discussions here. Looks to me like not everyone agrees with your analysis. If you are going to make sweeping changes, please discuss them here first. I just created an ID so you can see my background. I've lived here a long time. And yes, I do think highly of the UK! As my wife is from there. cheers,

Hi, Floridagators. I'm glad you have decided to join the Wikipedia community by creating an account. Let me try to address your concerns again. 1) The above discussion (and the edit history on the sports section) reveals that all registered editors were in agreement on the nature of the changes I made (though we did not set out the new section word for word). If any registered editors take issue with individual edits taht i have made, they are of course welcome to change them. However, since this has become a contentious topic, it would be Wikiquette for those editors to also explain their reasons for the changes on this talk page. 2) You have again reverted the page to its state before my last edit-- some of which, again, are relatively uncontroversial, such as adding wikiformatting and correcting for grammar or style. If you have any issues with my individual edits, please list your concerns on this page, and I will try to address those issues. It may turn out I agree with you on many of them after hearing your view presented, and we can proceed with your reversions! Or, it may be that we disagree and the rest of the community of editors who have been working on this page can weigh in, thus allowing us to find some consensus. But in order for this to happen, you have to first list your concerns here. 3) You may wonder why I didn't list my reasons for editing the section. This is because it was created almost entirely by an anonymous editor, and included a great number of grammatical, structural, and stylistic errors, and nonconformance with Wikipedia style guidlines. As a result, most Wikipedia editors will go ahead and change the section, unless reservations are raised later on the talk page by registered editors. If you would list your reservations here, you would be the first, and we could get started on finding a consensus! 4)Once we've accomplished these simple tasks, I would of course be more than happy to work with you toward finding consensus with my mind open. In the mean time, however, I think it is safe to say that no reason has been given on this talk page for reverting my cleanup of the section. As a result, I will re-re-revert the section back to the cleaned-up version. Please leave it in that state until we can find some order of consensus. Again, welcome to Wikipedia. ALC Washington 20:58, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Oh, and one more thing-- please remember to sign your name with comments on talk pages by typing four tildas (~) following your post. ALC Washington 21:02, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

OK, But here is a suggestion. Why not start from the way I had it. And then you could list the individual changes you want to make from that and why. That way, I can learn something. Because if you just change the whole thing the way you see that it should be, I'm not learning anything from that. And the sportsman in me rises to the competition... So I'm going to change it back to the way I had it. And could you then please list out the major changes you are making and why, so that we can reach agreement here, and I can learn more about Wikipedia. thanks, Floridagators 21:18, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Can I propose we put the following section into a footnote?

(Many entrance signs in Tampa now read Tampa: City of Champions due to the previous championships of the Buccaneers, Lightning, and Tampa Bay Storm. Recently, the issue of adding the New York Yankees to the signs have been raised, raising controversy on whether the team should be considered since it only holds spring training in Tampa. Tampa Mayor Pam Iorio disagrees with this idea stating that the Tampa Bay region already has its own baseball team, and that the signs do not name specific teams, they name the Super Bowl, the Stanley Cup, and Arena Bowl championships.)

I want to check here first since the overall section has been subject to much controversy in the past. The sentences are borderline-relevant, but it's poor style to have several sentences in a single parenthetical on an article page. ALC Washington 16:20, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Shopping Centers

Someone decided that the comment reflecting the poor sales of the University Square Mall and its status as a semi "dead" mall was an unsourced opinion? It appears that the same person was offended by the fact that the neighborhood was mentioned as "suitcase city". This is a common name for this section of the city, and a citation can be found somewhere, I'm sure. A user has decided that that part of the article was a mere "opinion", but the user who labelled the University neighborhood did not call it "poor", "trashy" or "ghetto" (all of which are biased, opnionated terms) but merely made reference to the neighborhood's semi-oficial name. I suspect this is the same group of people who refer to International plaza as an "upscale" mall (which it is), and the Westshore Plaza as "a upper-middle class mall", so I am a little confused why said persons would be upset by making mention of the University Mall as being the worst mall in Tampa, and the most likely to go out of business in the near future (which it is). A mall is being planned in Southern Pasco county right now, which will be the death of University mall, as many stories have already made plans to pull out of University and move to the new mall. Will the comment about the mall be acceptable to you then?

I have moved this section to the end of the page, as it is customary to place new sections at the end. I reverted the following from the article page,

In recent years, many stories, including one anchor store (JC Penny's) have pulled out of the mall due to poor sales. Many blame this on the neighborhood the mall is located in; Tampa's "University" neighborhood remains one of the most dangerous parts of the city, and this section is known as "suitcase city" due its large transient population.

All material in articles in Wikipedia needs to be verifiable. Edits presenting potentially controversial opinions such as many blame this on the neighborhood the mall is located in, one of the most dangerous parts of the city and known as "suitcase city" due its large transient population in particular need to have references from reputable, published sources. Please read the Wikipedia policies on verifiability, prohibiting original reasearch and maintaining a neutral point of view for more information. -- Donald Albury^(Talk) 17:32, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Radio

I added two radio stations to the list of radio stations in Tampa. They are the ones that say Christian rock on them. I feel that that section NEEDS to grow, as there are way more radio stations in this area than are currently mentioned. Please do not delete them. If you do, I will just put them right back up again. Later!!! --64.12.116.135 05:07, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Tampa article needs cleaning up

Cities with attractive articles (e.g. Seattle, Chicago, Atlanta) do not have long lists of items, like schools, that take up an enormous amount of space that visitors must scroll through. Isn't there another way of doing this, like have a link to List of Schools or something?

Take a look a Louisville, Kentucky which is considered a Featured article by Wikipedia, as is Marshall, Texas.

Also, unlike other cities, the Tampa article has no notes or reference. It looks like one big commerical advertisement rather than a description of an important and historic city.

Also, what is all that stuff at the bottom about the State of Florida? Does that need to be there? KarenAnn 13:34, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

I think the paragraph at the end of History about Charles Bishop's plane crash should be removed or moved to a "Tampa in the news" section. Newsworthy, but not historic. The [Billy Ferry firebombing] was more significant.

Shopping Centers

Why is a list of shopping centers even included? KarenAnn 13:39, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Why not? Mike H. That's hot 22:23, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Tampa In The Movies

Even though not dealing with the city itself, "Oceans 11" had a scene filmed at Latoms Restaraunt near Ybor City.

Sunshine skyway

I have taken the liberty to remove the sunshine skyway reference in the landmarks section. This has nothing to do with Tampa, this connects St. Petersburg and Bradenton. I guess anything of note in St. Pete is always going to be grouped in with Tampa, like the Devil Rays. Bad example actually, since they aren't of note :) --Lakerdonald 16:10, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Technically, while the bridge never touches land there, it is within the boundaries of Hillsborough County. Gamaliel 17:12, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Parts of the bridge fall in Manatee and Pinellas counties. And while it is true that part of it is in Hillsborough, this still doesn't make it a Tampa landmark. It might merit a mention on a hypothetical list of Tampa Bay Area (I really hate that phrase however that's another topic :) ) landmarks or something similar... --Lakerdonald 17:27, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Do the Tampa city limits extend down to the bridge? I can't tell from the map in the article. -- Donald Albury^(Talk) 17:59, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Nope. But the bridge falls inside of three counties: Pinellas being the northern part of the bridge/the Meisner bridge/etc., Hillsborough being the middle part, and Manatee being the southern stretch of the bridge. It doesn't fall within Tampa city limits however, and that is why I removed it. --Lakerdonald 18:06, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Then I agree with you. I'm getting tired of people wanting to throw everything within fifty miles into articles about cities. -- Donald Albury^(Talk) 18:27, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Yeah I agree. If it were on say the Bradenton or St. Pete pages that would be different. The main problem I had with this was that it just shows the tendency for anything of note within the greater Tampa Bay area to be thrown under the category of "Tampa", despite the fact that St. Petersburg is a major Florida city in its own right. But I'm ranting. :P --Lakerdonald 18:37, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

It's just a suburb of Tampa. ;) Gamaliel 18:39, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Wait Tampa in Russia or Tampa in Florida? --Lakerdonald 18:40, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Tampa in Florida. This city is in no way associated with the Russian city of the same name.--Chili14

Servers are here

Should there be any mention of the main Wikipedia servers being here? Just wanted to know.--Chili14 18:20, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't think so. It's never mentioned on the news. If it was something notable in the community, which also had even an inkling of press coverage, I'd say yes, but nobody outside of Wikipedia would know, and probably for a good reason. Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 19:10, 7 August 2006 (UTC)