User:Taraborn/Visual Thinking

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Some people such as Temple Grandin claim they think solely in pictures, but they never give much detailed information of how _actually_ they do it to form complex sentences visually. Does anyone know any source about this? Thanks. --Taraborn 12:14, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Pretty hard to explain it without direct thought transference... and it if that ever happens, we're in deep trouble. -88.111.29.222 12:31, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I meant something like, for example... to "translate" the sentence This movie is boring and lasts very longinto images I imagine a man pointing at the screen yawning and an hourglass running veeery slow. --Taraborn 15:08, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm a visual thinker - just as you have no problem drawing a picture, when you think in words (how weird that must be!) - I have no problem producing coherent sentences when I think in pictures. Keep that symmetry in mind and all should become clear! SteveBaker 15:36, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I use images quite a lot to speed up my thinking, but could you (please!!) an example of a complex sentence in the way I said? If I tell you "Yesterday I went to the cinema", how does the word "Yesterday" picture to you? Thanks to all. --Taraborn 19:49, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I can't. It's like me saying: "OK - draw me complex picture - a vase of flowers say - now, what words were you using to describe to yourself that particular S-shaped curve that described the side of the vase?" ...that's a bit overly simplistic perhaps because I'm typing so I had to use words to say it and that perhaps says what it is you think. But suppose you were remembering the way light striking the side of the vase causes a complicated pattern of light shading on the side of the vase? SteveBaker 23:53, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I think in words most of the time, and can't draw at all

I'm pretty sure you don't mean that you can't draw - I'm 100% sure you can draw - what you mean is that you can't draw well. That's not at all the same thing. SteveBaker 23:53, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I think it's very difficult for us to observe our own language of thought and even more difficult to express these observations to others. These questions have been captivating philosophers and cognitive scientists for a long time. The articles on private language argument, or, for a more recent concept, on language of thought might be of interest to you. ---Sluzzelin talk 23:17, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

And of course: visual thinking. SteveBaker 23:53, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

If you really want to worry about this - try to answer the following questions:

1. Do animals who posess no speech think in words?
2. Do people who have always been profoundly deaf think in sign language gestures? What if they never learned to sign?
3. Does my wife (who is French) think in English or French or both or neither since she was speaking exclusively French until the age of 18 and has been speaking almost exclusively English for the subsequent thirty years of her life?

For the third one, I've asked her this - repeatedly and with an effort to get a solid answer. She's definitely not a visual thinker - that much is abundantly clear. She claims not to know the answer. She says she does not translate her thoughts into either language. Her speech just comes out in whichever form is needed without special thought being required. However, interestingly, when she has to add a column of numbers without the aid of a calculator (and as many people do, she feels the need to vocalise: "Three and four, seven, and six is thirteen, carry the one...") - she can only do that in French. She can't add up a table of numbers in English without getting into a lot of difficulty! It's hilareous to watch her try! SteveBaker 00:07, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Errr... This is becoming pretty weird. Temple Grandin says she had trouble understanding the word "under" until she made an image about her under a table during a drill, she also mentions she had trouble with more abstract concepts such as peace, she imagined a dove and so. That's what I understand for visual thinking. Can't you just give us an example of an image linked to a word or concept? PS: The example about the vase... well, you don't need "words" to "understand" an image... you just keep that image in your head and if someone wants you to describe it you do it. --Taraborn 00:50, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

In popular education culture there is multiple intelligence of Howard Gardner and many others who posit theories of how people think. 'Visual thinking' is a possible subset demarcation of thinking. In education terms, some people find it easier to learn reading from a blackboard, while others find they need to talk about what they learn, and others need to feel things related to learning. Difficult to actually prove, as people are supposed to display degrees of all types of learning, but occasionally favoring styles.

In terms of the metaphor of a visual learner (thinker), images are easier to process and interpret than sounds, as awareness lends itself to visual expression. So the word 'surprise' evokes an image, and the image of someone surprised is associated with the word.It is important to remember that words define thoughts, images in this respect, are lexical. DDB 04:47, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't quite hold with what Temple Grandin says - I don't need to think of a mental picture for every word - just as verbal thinkers can recall the shape of a vase without needing to describe it in words. Visual/Verbal thinking is more to do with how you approach solving problems or how you like to explain things. I certainly don't have to think of hiding "under" a table or see a dove as a symbol for "peace". They are concepts that exist independently of the words that describe them. However, if I have to explain to a mechanic at the garage that my car is 'hesitating' during accelleration - I feel a strong desire to sketch a quick graph rather than trying to put it into words. Mathematical concepts are easier for me to comprehend if I can turn them into a geometric representation. I'm just generally much happier with pictures and diagrams than with (to me) long-winded wordy explanations. SteveBaker 06:19, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Sir, I would like not to hurt your feelings, but from what you say I guess you have a pretty common mind, and definitely not what I was looking for. Everyone finds easier to understand the concept of, for example, real numbers using a ruler to picture it (an image, yes!) instead of countless and meaningless arguments, let alone the formal definition. --Taraborn 20:52, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

There is definitely a difference between visual thinkers and symbolic thinkers in mathematics. On seeing the expression x² + y² a naturally visual mathematician thinks "circle" and a naturally symbolic mathematician thinks "quadratic form". Gandalf61 13:10, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Steve, the question being asked is not about people who think best/most clearly/as a preference in images, but about people who think solely in pictures, of which Taraborn gave an example. People who do not think in this way do not necessarily think solely in words, but they use words in their thoughts as a way of thinking more clearly. That doesn't mean these other people do not have any images in their thoughts! In answer to the question "How does Temple Grandin form complex sentences?", I'd say (judging from the under example), with difficulty. However, if Temple Grandin is able to communicate with other people in any way other than pictures, I would guess she is able to think in words to some extent, although she may need to understand a concept visually before she can use it. However, as Steve says, most people in fact think in a combination of different forms, and just have a preference for some over others. (PS, I don't use a ruler to picture the concept of real numbers, although I do use a flexible numberline for calculation. I find the concept easier to understand through mathematical definition and graphs. Beware generalisations!) :-) 86.139.237.132 22:32, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

That's why I didn't type Everyone, I typed Everyone, since I expected some exceptions to the rule. Nevertheless, the concept is almost exclusively taught at elementary schools using the ruler method. Thanks to all for your responses :) --Taraborn 20:38, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Maybe she doesn't know she's thinking in words as she can't imagine any pictures to describe her thought.

Side thought - see Synesthesia. V-Man737 03:57, 6 March 2007 (UTC)