Talk:Thom Hartmann

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Shouldn't this article include a link to www.thomhartmann.com ?

I did when I dropped in this evening. CoastThinker 04:37, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

That remark is from October but it was not signed and dated ;) Dr Debug (Talk) 04:42, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Classic newbie mistake on my part. CoastThinker 04:44, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 cleanup & cite 2 Educational background 3 Ayn Rand mention 4 Separate Article for Show?

[edit] cleanup & cite

• strained expression needs ironing out.
• needs citations for add/adhd stuff (at the very least).

will try to do some of this myself when i get a second Jackk 15:32, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

I've added the citations for the ADD. He has a whole section dedicated to it and added a bibliography. I don't know what you normally do with revised editions. Should we put down the original year or just use the year of the latest edition. Dr Debug 22:17, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

I've taken a run through with an eye to grammar and readability; somebody feel free to beef up the references. CoastThinker 04:22, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

I checked and added them the last time, but grammar and readability aren't my strong points. I reinserted ref 5, but it is referenced already ;) Dr Debug (Talk) 04:24, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Educational background

Why is there no mention of Mr. Hartmann's educational background, degrees, institutions etc? Curiously, this information is also absent on all of his web pages and pages referring to him. For someone who speaks authoritatively on so many subjects and with as much influence as he, this is critial information. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 168.253.131.93 (talk • contribs). on 6 March 2006.

I also find no web references to Hartmann's formal education. The above anonymous poster connects this 'critical' information to Hartmann's influence. Hartmann is a radio talk-show host, for which there is no formal education. The fact the above poster is seeking such information speaks to Hartmann's ability to grasp and make important contributions to diverse fields. In my introductory paragraph I describe him as a "lay scholar", which I think is a useful term for people who have, on their own, achieved competency in an area of study and are in a position to add to a body of knowledge surrounding it. Suppose that Hartmann has no academic credential. I suggest the above poster refer me to a single Wikipedia article that mentions lack of academic training as anything but a source of pride or as a source of derision. Making a point of it would seem to be a petty distraction. CoastThinker 04:46, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

It certainly is relevant and useful information to note, one way or the other. No doubt Hartmann makes the college dropout Rush Limbaugh look like a mental midget, even without the benefit of a whole year of college Limbaugh supposedly had, yet one gets the impression Hartmann is something more akin to a dilletante as opposed to the honorific title lay scholar, though ably fighting the good fight on Air America. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 167.191.250.80 (talk) 01:35, 16 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Ayn Rand mention

Even though Thom debates members from the Ayn Rand Foundation (I used to book the guests on the show myself), he equally if not more often debates people from the Heritage Foundation and conservative columnists. That comment was pretty random. Zenpickle 13:39, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Aren't Libertarians (which members of the Ayn Rand Foundation would be) considered to be fiscally conservative, even if they're socially liberal? Phil 08:19, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

That's a sticky area, and it depends on whose definition of liberal and conservative you use. In a way, Randies and Libertarians are classical liberals. I tend to stay away from the "fiscally liberal" and "socially conservative" framing of arguments because those are media created distortions of political science. If anything, I'd put them in the classical liberal camp but still generally call them conservative. The common theme of liberalism since even before John Locke has been the deconcentration of power, depending on what the institution of concentrated power was at the time. Conservatives have traditionally supported governments, but as governments have become more democratic (less concentrated in a minority of rulers) and corporations have gained more power, they have leaned against democratic governments and more towards corporations. The Randies and Libertarians have been against democratic governments placing regulations to check the power of corporations. For this reason, I would put them in the conservative camp. Zenpickle 07:49, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Separate Article for Show?

With Thom replacing Al Franken's show, should we consider creating a separate article for his radio show. Franken, after all, had his own article, and this certainly increases the notability of Thom's show, and the separation would help make this article feel less cluttered. ShawshankRedemption 07:11, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I'd say no. Franken had an extensive career that was public and notable prior to the AF show. Hartmann, not so much (not to belittle his career - but lots of people with business careers don't merit a WP article.) If the article feels cluttered, clean it up within the existing article. -Pete 22:56, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

But Hartmann was also an author, and has written many books. He is one of the only talk-show hosts to have a main article about himself, but not about his show. It feels weird discussing the format of his show, for instance, in an article about him as a person. ShawshankRedemption 22:54, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Good point. Let me clarify: In the present article, it seems to me that the items relating to Hartmann as a person are generally notable insofar as they reveal the background, qualifications, and personality as a talk show host. I would contend that he is far more famous as a talk show host than anything else; I suspect that most people who read his books are listeners of his show. Thus, maybe the entire article should be MOVED to "The Thom Hartmann Show," with a redirect from Thom Hartmann.

It may be that there is merit to having two separate articles. If you think that's the way to go, I think that a good first step would be editing the current article to reflect the distinction more clearly, and make sure that both sides are fleshed out and pretty well stand on their own. (I think that would be worthwhile regardless of whether the article is ultimately split.) Once that is accomplished, splitting the page into two might make sense. But I think that at the moment, creating a separate page would only add to the rather disorganized state of the current article. -Pete 23:10, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I just wanted to comment on this quote: "it seems to me that the items relating to Hartmann as a person are generally notable insofar as they reveal the background, qualifications, and personality as a talk show host", those who know them for his work with ADD and ADHD might disagree. I'll agree, the article should be organized first, but I'd argue Mr. Hartmann was more of a Jack of All Trades than Mr. Franken was, and recognized in many of the fields he worked in (especially relating to the Hunter/Farmer theory), albeit not as famous. 72.135.226.198 08:30, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough - all of that may be true. If so, I'd say all the more reason to first focus on making the content good and clearly delineating between the man and the show, and then consider splitting off a different article. -Pete 01:07, 13 February 2007 (UTC)