Talk:Turkish people
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[edit] Title on infobox
In the opening paragraph it states "In a historic context the word Turk or Turkish has also a wider meaning, because—especially in the past—it referred to all Muslim inhabitants of the Ottoman Empire irrespective of their ethnicity.". Wouldn't this have included Kurds, Arabs and Berbers? They were muslim inhabitants of the Ottoman empire.
Why does it say "Anatolian Turks" ? The Turkish-speaking people of Turkey call themselves simply "Turks". Turks dont just live in Anatolia, but also in the Balkans and to a lesser extent in the Levent(Hatay) and Caucasus (if you consider the exteme northeast of Turkey and also formerly in Ajaria and Meskhetia). In fact, Turks form the second most numerous ethnic goup in the Balkans after romanians. If you wanted to make a distinction from other Turkic peoples, a more apt title would be "Ottoman Turks" (Osmanlı Türkler), implying descent fom the Ottoman Empire. --Kilhan 16:43, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
- I thought that 'Anatolian Turks' term was much better. Because If you say only 'Turks' population in Azerbaijan and Uzbekistan aren't the same same as on the table. All of them are completely Turk population. If we say only 'Turks' we should say that all of the azerbaijan and Uzbekistan is Turk. Than let's change them.--Uzak 10:35, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
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- You mean in the interests of Pan-Turkism. --Tēlex 10:38, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
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- What we will call them. Do you think they are Uzbek or Azeri. These names are all newfangled. Thay are all turks. this is not about pan Turkism.--Uzak 10:44, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
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And I still can't understand why Sezen Aksu's pic is there.--Uzak 10:47, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
- This article is about Turks who were descended from the Ottoman Empire. Kazakhs and the like are technically Turkic, but form a different ethnos. Sezen Aksu is there because she's Turkish and famous. Besides, we need at least one woman on there since half of all Turks are...*drum roll*... female (Surprise surprise) --Kilhan 22:02, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
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- Of all the turkish women who lived, who picked the cocaine-addicted singer? I'm very well aware that the people in Turkey have an inexplicable sympathy for her, but wouldn't it be more appropriate to put Sabiha Gökçen or Halide Edip Adıvar there? --Cornholio1985 12:02, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Well the people featured were decided following a concensus amongst other wikipedia editors. Personally, I would like to see Nazim Hikmet on there in place of one of the sultans, maybe Fatih Mehmet. --Kilhan 09:23, 3 August 2006 (UTC) P.S. Where did you pick up the coccaine addiction thing ? Its the first time I've heard of it.
[edit] Turkish names
Why is there no paragraph about Turkish names ? I have made a small list of very popular names for Turks. They are drawn from Turkic tradition, islamic tradition and other traditions
Male names :
Adnan, Ahmet, Arslan, Bulent, Burak, Cem , Fatih, Gökhan , Hakan, Kemal, Mehmet, Serkan, Süleyman , Tarkan, Volkan
Female names :
Arzu, Aysel, Bahar, Burcu, Deniz, Emel, Hande,İpek, Meltem, Özge, Özlem, Pelin, Sibel, Tuğçe , Yasemin —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zoko19 (talk • contribs) 05:39, 13 September 2006.
- Perhaps you could start a new article called Turkish name? Try to base it off these articles. —Khoikhoi 05:51, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Infobox images
Hi, I realized that the four images in the infobox do not properly align on web browsers other than Internet Explorer (I'm using Opera v9 and I have this problem). I'm going to merge these four images into one, as is common on "people" pages (see Greeks, Swedish people, Dutch people, for example). I also think another version including more people can be made, like the one on the Dutch people page. I will be glad to hear your suggestions on which persons to include in such an image. Atilim Gunes Baydin 17:00, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
- Hi Atilim, Im pretty sure that combining the four together into a composite would constitute a copyright violation since not all of them are free images that can be modified in any particular way. Im using Mozilla firefox (not Internet explorer) and the four seperate images bunched together look pretty much like how a composite would, except that the edges dont meld together as well. The current version seems to be the best direction to go, imo - at least to avoid the complex copyright issues that may prop up.--Kilhan 09:25, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
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- Hi, I do not think that it will constitute a copyright violation, as long as there are no violation issues with the constituent images. Like the wiki markup that used to hold these images together in place, it's just a technique to show images side by side. I believe that copyright laws are concerned with how and where the images are presented, not the technical details holding them in place. And as I said before, please note that this is common practice (see Germans, English people, Norwegian people, Greeks, Swedish people, Dutch people, French people (ethnic group), Italian people, Spanish people). In fact, I could not find another "people" page that uses wiki markup to hold the images in place. Atilim Gunes Baydin 10:32, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Population update added
changed to 70,413,958 and 66.7 to 74.5 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Aceflooder (talk • contribs) 14:42, 3 September 2006.
- It's wrong. —Khoikhoi 23:30, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
Not everyone in turkey is ethnical Turkish but about 90 percent are. there are also turkish minorities in balkan countries. North Cyprus is 99.5 % ethnical turkish, but only turkey recognises it —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zoko19 (talk • contribs) 05:46, 13 September 2006.
- 90%? According to the CIA World Factbook, Kurds make up 20% of Turkey's population. BTW, remember that Turkey's census is not based on ethnicity. —Khoikhoi 05:48, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
- There are ~13 million Kurds in Turkey. There are Caucasians (Çekrez), Lazs, Arabs, Jews, Armenians, Europeans... So it is a rare thing but I think Khoikhoi is right haha :) Deliogul 16:03, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Kosovo Turks
According to last census on Kosovo there were about 12,000 Turks. Luka Jačov 16:32, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Question
Is it possible 66.7 million Turks when 73 million people lives in Turkey? and the other Turks in outside. Zaparojdik
- Not everyone who lives in Turkey is Turkic. About 20 million are kurdish, and there are others too.Khosrow II 22:57, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
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- Not regarding the question but not 20 million Kurds live in Turkey. Turkey's %8 are native speaker of Kurdish and with others who speak Turkish as a second language and as native language, 13 million is total. Regarding my question, if there are 73 million people in Turkey and if 13 million is Kurds others are being Turks.(because everyone accepts themselves as Turks except Kurds) There are millions of Turks in outside, it doesn't seem logical 66.7 million Turks around the world. Sincerely-Zaparojdik 19:38, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Pamuk
I think it's about time for Orhan Pamuk's picture to reappear in the infobox ... --Benne ['bɛnə] (talk) 12:50, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
Turkey has two major group Turks and people of kurdish origin.Approximate numbers can be as below: Turks: 56 million Kurds: 14 million Araps: 1 million circassians: 1 million(çerkezler) others: 1 million
baybars
azerian,turkmen,ozbekian,kazakh,kyrgz .... people are must be in turkish people....they are turks... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Aceflooder (talk • contribs) 19:23, 24 October 2006.
[edit] Turkic peoples...
Must merge Turkic People Total Population to infobox..you cant make all Turks about 66 million are you kidding? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Aceflooder (talk • contribs) .
- Like I said, there's a difference between Turkic and Turkish people... Khoikhoi 19:45, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
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- Ok i just want people to see Turkish and Turkic people in one box.User:Aceflooder 22:16, 25 October 2006
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- Why should they be in one box? Should we add up all the numbers of Germanic peoples for the infobox in the Germans article? Khoikhoi 21:11, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
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Turks, or Turkish people are citizens of Turkey.Nothing to do the Turkics who migrated to Anatolia.Most people in Turkey are native Anatolians.But of course some of these Anatolians posses an ancestor who was one of those Turkics who settle in Anatolia under the Seljuk confederacy.But bloodline mainly Anatolian.And then of course you have people of Turkey with partial or full roots from the Balkans,Crimea and the Caucasus.
The Turk identity is new.It was used to denote Muslims of the Balkans and in Anatolia,those Anatolians who were Muslim and Ottoman linguitically and culturally during Ottoman times.In other words,Turks or Turkish people is merely an umbrella term for anyone of Turkish nationality,or during the Ottoman Empire,a person who is a Muslim with cultural connections to the Ottomans.
[edit] The term "Turkic" is not realistic
--- the word "Turkic" is used since the late 1950's in European culture, and it was first created by USSR governments of those dates. Simply the word was used to seperate the Turkish Clans and emphasize they were not descended from the same origin, were just talking a language in similarities. The aim was to assimilate the Turkish population in the rule of USSR and to easy the resistance of their cultural behaviour. And also the term itself was translated in Turkish as "Turki", meaning not exactly Turk, similar to, looks like Turk. As in many topics of Wikipedia, some informations about Turkish Clans are open to dispute; as in Slavic Tribes article. Bulgarians are shown in Slavic origin and the former clans of Bulgarians as Kumans, Pecheneks are not mentioned to be Turk. But if you inspect further on the topic and go on for the links on those Tribe names you can clearly find out that they were Turkish Tribes and not Turkic; and you can get this information just by wikipedia again, which seems to be a big dilemma to me. Because they were Turkish "Boy" (= Clan ) fighting in the order of the ancient Seljuk Emperor Keykubat, and migrated towards the lands in Caucasia and then into the East Europe. Also it is clearly known that Turkish Tribes migrated towards Europe and founded the Empire of European Huns aswell. So shortly after all those arguments i want to make clear that the term "Turkic" means "Turk" and the term "Turk" does not only mean the ethnicity of Turkey's Turks, it covers all those tribes which said to be "Turkic". Turkey is a country founded after the Ottoman Empire and Ottoman Emp. was founded after Anatolian Seljuk Empire also which is the continuation of Great Seljuk Empire; all those empires were formed and ruled by several Turkish Tribes but dominantly the Oguz Turks who are a clan of Tukish Nation in ethnicity. I think this needs a correction by the way.--- Drsecancan 11:59, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Altaic Controversy
According to major reference works, everbody agrees on Turkic, Tungus, and Mongolian families. These language families have some common words and they are typologically similar. Whether they are genetically related or not is the subject of ongoing research. The similarities could be result of long-term contact.
All languages are influenced by languages they are in contact with. According to the standards set by linguists, languages that make up a family must show productive-predictive correspondences. The shape of a given word in one language should be predictable from the shape of the corresponding word, or cognate, in another language. Turkic, Tungus, and Mongolian satisfies all these similarities.
The family name "Altaic" is a commonly used terminology to label these languages. Turkic, Tungus, and Mongolian are still Altaic regardless of exact status of Altaic is. The controversy is a minor issue among a small circle of specialists. Furthermore, even these specialists use the term Altaic to label, especially, for these three language groups. E104421 08:36, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
- I'd share in the opinion that yesterday's version ("highly controversial Altaic linguistic group") somewhat overstates the significance of the controversy, in a way that is really extraneous to the context of this article. As a "linguistic group", Altaic is really not controversial as applied to Turkic. The question is whether it's a "linguistic family" strictu sensu. Which is really a technical issue of not much interest here. – That said, I'm not sure we need a treatment of Altaic at that point at all. It's all treated a little bit below under "Language" anyway, and better. Much more important would be a clarification of "Turkish" vs. "Turkic". The present version ingeniously dodges the issue by presenting the original Turkic populations during the migration period as a single group, calling them "Turks", but linking that word to Turkic peoples. Fut.Perf. ☼ 09:07, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
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- Mongolian is not part of the Altaic language tree.Azerbaijani 23:52, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
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- Check the Wikipedia article on the Altaic languages first, then go through the references to get a glimpse of Altaic languages. Regards. E104421 09:31, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
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[edit] The "Pictures of Turkish people"
Wow, I didn't know people from Turkey were all glamorous, sexy, and had their own picture studios. Apparently, some like to look like George Michael too. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]]).
- Don't you people find it strange to have the picture of a "pop singer" beside personalities such as Kemal, Mehmet II and Suleyman the Magnificent?? Miskin 10:29, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
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- It used to be Orhan Pamuk, but it caused too much controversy. Khoikhoi 10:31, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
- Can we find a picture of ordinary citizens of Turkey like the one on the Azerbaijani people page? Maybe from a village or something, so its more representative and authentic?Azerbaijani 23:51, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
- It used to be Orhan Pamuk, but it caused too much controversy. Khoikhoi 10:31, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
This is very stupid. There are pictures of Kivanc Tatlitug (a turkish male model) here. Take them off please. This is why no one takes wikipedia seriously.
- I agree, this whole section ([1]) is ridiculous! Posting pictures of models and saying "Pictures of the people of modern Turkey".Azerbaijani 21:22, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
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- Well, it is true that the article needs a cleanup.. But WPTR suffers from a lack of editors considering the scope of the project, therefore it takes a long time to rectify problems and address those sorts of issues, unfortunately. Baristarim 21:39, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
What strikes bad to me is the inclusion of a pop singer along with 3 important historical personalities. She could fit well into the gallery section of the Italian-looking people (if you decide to keep it). Then you could have someone like Osman I or even Alp Aslan replace her. Miskin 22:12, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
- Italian looking people???? :)) She is Turkish you know.. Well, there needs to be a picture from every era, I suppose her picture is ok (even though maybe it could be replaced by something similar). Sezen Aksu is very famous in Turkey, and she is not just a "pop-singer".. Baristarim 22:19, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
I meant the picture gallery with all the models in the bottom section (the one Azerbaijani and the anon are trashing). I know Aksu is Turkish, but I believe she would fit better in that gallery than where she is now. As for modern day people, you have Kemal there. Miskin 22:28, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
- The gallery needs work, cannot argue against that.. Baristarim 22:29, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
I wasn't trying to degrade her by saying that she's a pop singer. But next to those other people... I don't know. Miskin 22:31, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Sorry for trying to improve on User:Eeeeeeh's version, I didn't notice that it was him who had just decided to replace the picture. Miskin 01:16, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Turk term for all muslims ?
Term used to refer muslims by the west, bu it looks like Turks or Ottoman empire used it for muslims as well, which is definetely not the case, "mumin" word used for muslim inhabitants. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Utku a (talk • contribs) 20:27, 23 January 2007 (UTC).
I don't think 'mümin' is used, maybe 'müslüman'. As far as I know, until late 19th century, early 20th century, Turk was used for the Muslim 'tebaa', as well. At least Western countries used Turk to mean Muslim in Ottoman Empire. denizTC 06:22, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] significant populations
Is 884 (in Liechtenstein) really a significant population? --Rayis 22:34, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
I guess it is put there since 2.6% of Liechtenstein population is Turkish (so it's significant in Liechtenstein), which is bigger than the percentage in many countries (Germany as well), but of course it is not significant compared to other total population numbers. denizTC 06:30, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
