Wikipedia talk:WikiProject China/Archive/January 2007

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents 1 Confucius is now the core topics COTF 2 Barnstar of national Merit: PRC 3 Empress Dowager Cixi 4 Zh-min-nan 5 Islam in China 6 Foreign influence on Chinese martial arts 7 Portal:China 8 History fact check 9 Fragrant Concubine: Admin help needed 10 History of China Trade 11 Attention: New page move campaign 12 Reshui 13 Energy policy of China 14 Romanization 15 need help placing these images of a Chinese bamboo book 16 Yue Fei 17 Social Issues

Confucius is now the core topics COTF

Hi, Confucius has been selected for the Core Topics Collaboration. If you can help bring this up to WP:GA standard, we'd appreciate it. Thanks, Walkerma 06:04, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Barnstar of national Merit: PRC

Hi, Didn't see any BoNM PRC. Didn't know about the awards on this page 'til just now; have already made a barnstar template and created & uploaded three image options.

I'll leave it to the folks in this project to choose an image option. The current option is created from the PRC flag...

Cheers, --Ling.Nut 20:02, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

I would call it the PRC Barnstar of National Merit, to avoid POVness. It also avoids using PRC imagery for pre-PRC-era-related articles. --Nlu (talk) 20:52, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

We have done all we could to avoid showing preference for any particular nation/state in this project and I think we need not compromise for this barnstar. Feel free to award this however, but I don't think it should be "endorsed" in any manner by this project. -- 我♥中國 00:46, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

OK, I'll make it go bye-bye. :-) --Ling.Nut 01:08, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your understanding. :) -- 我♥中國 21:01, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Empress Dowager Cixi

Would like a little help resolving an issue on the naming standards for "Empress Dowager". One particular editor insists that the term "Dowager Empress" is just as valid as "Empress Dowager", and regularly changes any reference to the name of Empress Dowager Cixi to "Dowager Empress Cixi". It would be good to get some feedback on whether we should: a) leave the references as "Empress Dowager" as seems to be the standard both in English literature and in Wikipedia, b) decide to change to "Dowager Empress" and change all the relevant Wikipedia articles and names, or c) allow this one article on "Cixi" to have a mix of different terms, while other related articles continue to use "Empress Dowager". Background info on the issue can be found on the Cixi talk page at Talk:Empress_Dowager_Cixi. Ka-ru 14:12, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't think "Dowager Empress" would be more correct at all. The title, in Chinese, is Huang Taihou (皇太后), with no real correspondence to the word "dowager" in English, anyway. A more literal translation would be "Superior Empress." I'd say that Empress Dowager is the more appropriate term in any case, as if word order is important at all, "Huang" ("imperial") came first in the title. --Nlu (talk) 22:22, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

But in the case of Taishang Huang Huang comes last... what would that mean? -- 我♥中國 21:03, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

One means "Emperor's/Imperial Great Empress", the other means "Great High(er) Emperor" --Sumple (Talk) 21:42, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

The vast majority of English books that mention Cixi, mention her as the 'Empress Dowager,' not the 'Dowager Empress.' Therefore I am in favor of having all references to her be 'Empress Dowager.'Zeus1234 17:38, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Zh-min-nan

What language is it written in? [1]

It's labelled "zh" but it sure ain't Chinese! Is anyone here involved with that language version? What kind of transliteration is it using, and why is it using transliterations and not Chinese? --Sumple (Talk) 21:56, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

It's written in Minnanhua, using Pe̍h-ōe-jī (白話字) romanisation, which has been in use on Taiwan since the 1870s (mostly by Christians, apparently, prior to the 1990s). It uses a transliteration, I imagine, because that is the way its founding editors felt most comfortable writing it.—Nat Krause^{(Talk!·What have I done?)}

Looks like Vietnamese. I would assume it's pretty much the same story as latinized Vietnamese. -- 我♥中國 02:47, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

A glance in their village pump (or whatever) gives me this:

The issues, as you probably suspect, are complex and complicated by contemporary politics. But I'll boil it down to this: editing articles collaboratively is very difficult for lack of a standard in writing Ban-lam-gu using Chinese characters. Since no one believes this will change any time soon and some people do want an encyclopedia in the language, we naturally turn to the Latin tradition of writing Ban-lam-gu. This has the advantage of standardization, a body of literature going back 150 years, new learners in the educational system. It is not without problems, but on the whole it is a useful choice. I'll stop here (this PC being very slow). A-giâu 09:37, 18 Chhit-goe̍h 2006 (UTC)

_dk 03:19, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Islam in China

we are having Demographics dispute at Islam in China please sort the mess out.7day 12:09, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Foreign influence on Chinese martial arts

This is a new article and may have various quality issues. Please review the article and provide your feedback. See also Bodhidharma, the martial arts, and the disputed India connection. Shawnc 19:31, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Portal:China

Portal:China is now a featured portal candidate. Help on whatever is there to improve if you can! Cheers AQu01rius (User • Talk) 18:32, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

History fact check

Can someone check these edits here for accuracy and POV? I'm a bit concerned that this user overwrote quite a bit of information in the process of writing. --Yuje 12:28, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Fragrant Concubine: Admin help needed

I need help from an administrator to move the page Fragrant Concubine back to its original name. Someone moved the page to the far less common name Consort Rong without discussing it in advance, which has led to a number of double redirects.--Niohe 01:03, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

History of China Trade

Is there some kind of category that deals with the history of China trade? I cannot seem to find a category that would encompass 18th and 19th century trade, and the impact of Westerners in China, from Chinese exports to missionaries and doctors, or the sack of the Summer Palace and the Boxer rebellion. I can find individual articles, but nothing linking all these topics. Any ideas? The Opium wars are listed under History of Hong Kong, but surely we can find a more accurate category.Scotchorama 13:22, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Attention: New page move campaign

It seems that Highshines has started a new page move campaign, which needs the immediate attention of an administrator. For evidence, please refer to Special:Contributions/Highshines. I have also posted a notice at the Administrators 'noticeboard.--Niohe 01:49, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

If anyone had any doubt what kind of editor Highshines is, please have a look at the following foul language posted to Jiang's user page for four hours:

• [2]

I think Highshines has earned himself/herself a block by now.--Niohe 14:37, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I left a note/warning on her talk page. Tell me if she does something like that again. -- 我♥中國 20:04, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I think Highshines should be blocked for a week at the very least. Highshines is already lying about what he said. If he/she can get away with this, it will happen again. Just read how he/she is misrepresenting the remark to an administrator who doesn't know Chinese here and how Highshines calls me a liar for paraphrasing the remarks.--Niohe 21:37, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Reshui

I have a stub of an article about Reshui, but I really do not know anything about it. Anyone want to help fill in more details, add Chinese text etc?--Filll 23:39, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm, okay, for a second there, I thought this was just going to be an article about hot water.—Nat Krause^{(Talk!·What have I done?)} 00:20, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

lol. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 18:48, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Energy policy of China

Does anyone have the time and knowledge to start an article on the energy policy of China? See energy policy of the United Kingdom, energy policy of the European Union and energy policy of Russia for suggestions... Beagel 12:03, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Romanization

Hello, apologies if this is addressed elsewhere. The Romanization of Chinese names in WP is a mess! One can haphazardly find Wade-Giles and Pinyin combined in the same articles. I prefer pinyin, as I'm sure most of you. I think this project should somewhere state a preferred Romanization policy so that finicky types like me have a justification for standardizing everything. 140.247.163.157 06:03, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

It's here--> Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Chinese). Though I think links like this should be more visible in the project page... _dk 06:07, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Yup, under "Tools" in the sidebar. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 04:11, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

need help placing these images of a Chinese bamboo book

I have these four great images of a Chinese bamboo book, found on flickr and now on the commons, but I'm having trouble placing them on Wikipedia. Where should these photos go? Any thoughts? And can anybody tell me what is the title and who is the author?

unfolded

"page" edges

binding

cover

Thanks, — coelacan talk — 06:31, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

This is The Art of War, I would suggest placing the cover image on that article, but uh....the Chinese letters are upside down from this angle. _dk 07:52, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Ha! Oh no! I'll email the flickr uploader and see if another shot can be taken. Are they correct in the other images, particularly the "first page" shot that I have labelled "binding"? If so, that would also be a good photo for The Art of War. — coelacan talk — 09:24, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Yup, the rest of the images are correct. And it looks like this edition was written by the Qianlong Emperor, for your information. _dk 11:04, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Wow! By his own hand? Or commissioned by him? — coelacan talk — 22:32, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Unless I'm very mistaken, the cover says "乾隆御書"...which could mean both. There's no question that the book belongs to him though. _dk 07:55, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Great! I'll add that to the files. Thanks for all your help. — coelacan talk — 08:14, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Caution: it doesn't look like an actual Qianlong-era antique. The other line of text is "千尋(? not sure about that character... I might be influenced by Spirited Away here)竹齋精製", (exquisitedly made by xxxx bamboo study) which sounds like a modern print.

I googled 千尋竹齋 and it seems to relate to zh:吳昌碩 (1844-1927). (Quite a bit later than Qianlong era) --Sumple (Talk) 12:14, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Yue Fei

I've greatly expanded the Yue Fei page, however, the section on his military career is sorely lacking. I used quotations from several books to describe his military career, but it is by no means a definitive chronology of all his military actions (which I would like to see). I am not knowledgeable enough about his military career to make these changes.

The main reason I am writing is so that others may critique or add more stuff to the page that I haven't already. The lead paragraph is only a single sentence. It could be expanded as well. The overall page not as good as it could be, but it certainly is better than what it was. The old version was full of folklore that was presented as fact. Tell me what you think. (Ghostexorcist 18:11, 31 January 2007 (UTC))

A potential FA topic and page. I'll review it when I have time. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 18:21, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. (Ghostexorcist 18:30, 31 January 2007 (UTC))

By the way, I transferred all of the Yue bio stuff from my Jow Tong article to the Yue Fei page. I did this because the Jow Tong page was getting too big, plus the Yue page was lacking in background info. (Ghostexorcist 18:42, 31 January 2007 (UTC))

Social Issues

As most of you are aware, currently there are an innumerable list of social issues in the People's Republic of China, but the article is currently only in an introductory stage. I will be working on these articles but would also appreciate any help I can get from interested parties. Please inform me here or on my talk page if you are. Thanks. Colipon+(T) 22:32, 31 January 2007 (UTC)