Talk:Wyandot

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	This article is part of WikiProject Oklahoma, a WikiProject related to the U.S. state of Oklahoma.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the assessment scale.

	This article is part of WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America, which collaborates on Native American, First Nations, and related subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
???	This article has not yet been rated on the assessment scale.
Suggested article edit guidelines: To help us prioritise our workload, and in readiness for Wikipedia:1.0, we need to assess our articles for Quality. If this article is Unassessed, please assess it. See the Article Classification for instructions. If you disagree with a rating, you can change it or discuss it at Article Classification. Before assessing this article, be sure to check the existing Archive of assessments made under the previous system (used until July 2006), and feel free to help in migrating the existing comments besides from adding your own evaluation. After assessing this article's quality, please make sure it to add it to the Lists at Article Classification, following the grading scheme detailed there.
Please rate this article and leave comments here to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article.

"The Petun nation, the tribes who lived around Georgian Bay in southern-central Ontario, were further divided into Bear, Cord, Deer, and Rock tribes." - it seems to me based on what I know of the Iroquois proper that these would have been *clans*, not tribes, but I am certainly no expert... Anyone got a reference? Brianski 21:24, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

The history of these people is complex and hard to summarize in a short encyclopedia article. There is a very good analysis of the interrelationships of the languages and tribes in the article by John Steckley, which I added as a source. Briefly, these people were beaten by the Anishinabek to the North, the Iroquois (Hadenosaunee) to the south and east, the French and then the English. The English and Iroquois pretty well finished them off. Many were assimilated by the Iroquois, others were displaced to the east (Quebec) and south (Kansas and Oklahoma).

Note that Steckley says that it is unclear as to whether the Bear, Rock, Cord and Deer were clans, moitees or tribes. He uses "tribes," so I went with that. Sunray 07:45, 2003 Dec 8 (UTC)

Oh, heh, yeah I read that article just a few minutes ago, before I saw your response. Since it talks about a Huron "Bear tribe" I must be wrong. Nevermind me :)! Brianski 21:51, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Efnosis@yahoo.com

Contents 1 Wyandots in 18th century Ohio country 2 Meaning of Hure 3 Origins of the word 'Huron' 4 Tobacco

[edit] Wyandots in 18th century Ohio country

In 1782 the army Colonel William Crawford was captured in [what is now] Wyandot County, Ohio, wrongly accused of mass murder of Wyandots that were Christianized by Moravian settlers at Gnadenhutten, 90 miles to the east in [what is now] Tuscarawas County. Crawford was tortured and killed. But first, instead of surrendering his sword the customary way, Crawford stuck it in the ground half way and worked it back and forth until the blade snapped in two. Today a nearby village and a creek bear the name 'Brokensword'. It was later learned that the Wyandot victims were killed by another army officer, allegedly Captain Williamson. [Historical Collections of Ohio, Henry Howe]. Musicwriter 01:20, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Actually Crawford was captured in Crawford County, Ohio and wasn't totally innocent as he was involved in the killing of Capt. Pipe's ( a Munsi warchief and his executor) brother and the wounding of his mother in an ignoble mlitary venture called in Ohio and Pennsylvania, "The Squaw Campaign." Lapses in the timelines of traditional narratives such as appear in Howe's history lead modern researchers to speculate that Crawford was actually tried and found guilty of his involvement in the "Squaw Campaign," or because the murderer of the Delaware/Mahican/Munsi Indians (not Wyandot)at Gnadenhutten, Col. Williamson escaped during the Battle of the Sandusky plains, and thusly Crawford was executed in his place. Finally, when Parker Brown the historian sent pictures of "Crawford's Sword" to the Smithsonian Institute for identification in the 1990's they concluded that the sword was an American artillery sword from the Seminole War period. My investigation of the actual recovery site near a stagecoach road leads me to believe it was possibly lost or disgarded by a passenger.

Please refer to:

Crawford's Campaign against Sandusky and History of the Girty's by Wilshire Consul Butterfield

Indians in Pennsylvania, Paul Wallace

Various publications regarding Col. William Crawford and his defeat by Parker B. Brown in Pennsylvania historical publications.

[edit] Meaning of Hure

"the name referred to a hure, the rough-haired head of wild boars" Hure also means the nose of the boars.

I doubt very much if the Huron needed any justification to torture prisoners to death.

[edit] Origins of the word 'Huron'

The article states that it was Gabrielle Lalemant who proposed that the word originated in the French 'hure'. I think you will find that in the Relation of 1639, it is Jérôme Lalemant who writes of a French soldier seeing the hair fashion of a Wendat: ‘[T]his fashion of wearing the hair making their heads look to him like those of boars [hures], led him to call these barbarians “Hurons;” and this is the name that has clung to them ever since.’ (Reuben Gold Thwaites, 'The Jesuit Relations and Allied Documents.' Vol. 16, pp 229 - 231.

You are probably right. This online source speaks of three different Lalemant working for the Jesuit order.

http://www.wyandot.org/lalemant.htm

The three could have easily been mixed up. I originally wrote "Father Lalemant". Someone must have added the first name later on. We would have to look at the article's revision history. For sure however, it is Gabriel and not Gabrielle. The first is masculin, the second feminin. :-) -- Mathieugp

[edit] Tobacco

Re: removal of growing tobacco text -- I think tobacco was grown that far north, but I can't remember the source of info offhand. Tobacco was grown in England in the 1600s, brought from the New World, until the practice was outlawed for the benefit of Virginia. If I remember, I'll look for a source when I have better acccess. Pfly 03:11, 30 September 2006 (UTC)