User talk:Zoney/Archive03

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Hello, this is the third of my archive pages (see also my other archives). Please leave responses even to this page, on the main talk page where I and others will see them! Thanks! zoney ▓█▒ talk 12:13, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Contents 1 Colonization 2 Reason for amending the Irish flag 3 Zoney: A True Wikipedian 4 Train station captions 5 Republic of Ireland: motto 6 Trunk and non-Trunk N Roads in the Republic 7 Hino: American or Japanese?

[edit] Colonization

Thank you for your information and opinion. It's amazing what colonization will do to the psyche of a people. In the Europe of the XIXth century, French was the allmighty imperialist language of Europe. It was learned all over the place. At the same time, on the other side of the Atlantic, Quebecers thought of French as "a play language" that was archaic and not suited to express the reality of the modern world!

I hope the Irish language wins over English. That would be a plus for the linguistic and cultural diversity of our planet and it would give hope to many native populations in Quebec and the rest of America.

Emile Nelligan is just one of the many Quebecers with an Irish background. When the Irish immigrants landed in Quebec, they came into contact with a largely Catholic and French-speaking population calling themselves "les Canadiens" and dominated by a wealthy bunch of British royalists who looked down upon the majority of the people in the country. It is not hard to guess which side the majority of them chose... The intermarriage between the two ethnic groups was such that, today, there are many Quebecers with Irish names (Nelligan, Johnson etc.). I grew up not knowing that Patrick and Steve were NOT French names. I remember this confused me a lot.

If you are interested, you can read about the Irish in Quebec here: http://english.republiquelibre.org/history.html

The most confusing thing for foreigners is the name change. What is Quebec now (essentially the St. Lawrence river valley + the north) was called le Canada by the French and its inhabitants, les Canadiens. Then it was renamed the Province of Quebec after the British takeover of 1760. Then the 1774 Quebec Act changed the borders of Quebec which then included what is today the province of Ontario and the southern part of the Great Lakes. Then in 1791 Quebec was split into Lower and Upper Canada. [[Lower Canada] would become Quebec, but not before going through the forced Union. After a failed revolution, Lower Canada was annexed to Upper Canada in 1840: it became the Province of Canada with the Act of Union. Around the 1850s, the French-speakers of Canada became a minority in this new Canada. They started to call themselves les Canadiens français (from English "French Canadian") as a result. Nevertheless, they still had a lot of weight in politics and the British imperialists of Canada didn't like that. So a handful of businessmen who wished to make a fortune in railroads pushed for a federal union of all the British colonies of America. It was mostly opposed in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, but in Canada, former Upper Canada was in favor and former Lower Canada was divided on the issue. In 1867, London passed the British North America Act which created the federal Dominion of Canada. That's when what was formely Lower Canada was renamed Quebec. However, the majority of the people in Quebec started to identify as Quebecers (in French Québécois) in the 1960s, when the baby boom generation rebelled. These were my parents. ;-)

A must read to understand the 1791-1840 period of our history: http://english.republiquelibre.org/papineau/papineau-speech-institut.html

[edit] Reason for amending the Irish flag

Hello, Zoney! I replaced the Irish flag along with several others (see Talk:Gallery of national flags) by the rule "latest should be greatest", but I did not realize that the colors were wrong. Sorry for making this mistake. IMHO we should notify the editors of the CIA Factbook so that they correct it too. --Romanm 12:26, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Zoney: A True Wikipedian

Re: your reinstatement of the transcriptions in the Kingdom of Israel

Many thanks to a true Wikipedian

Slainte --JohnArmagh 04:33, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Train station captions

Hi, Zoney, I've just left a note on Talk:Train station about the captions there in hopes someone can flush them out and make them particularly good captions. Perhaps you'd like to try your hand at it. Thanks! -- ke4roh 17:26, Jul 8, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Republic of Ireland: motto

Hi, Zoney. Apologies if I'm misattributing the source, but I was wondering about the "Éire go deo" which appears on the Republic of Ireland page as the country's unofficial motto. I'd never heard this phrase before, and a Google search can find it only in the various different-language Wikipedias and in sites taking their information directly from Wikipedia.

"Ireland forever" is usually taken to be the English translation of the United Irishmen's slogan "Éire go brách" which often used to appear on the old nationalist green flag (and is forever associated for me with Americans enthusiastically mis-spelling it as "Erin go bra(u)gh" around St Patrick's Day -- sorry: POV lapse there!)

On the whole, though, I do feel that if a country lacks an official motto, then it is better simply to put the word "none". -- Picapica 10:43, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I should have replied to this sooner. You may be right, "none" may be more appropriate. "Éire go deogh" was an attempt at the common American phrase, "Éire go brách" (Erin go bragh) - I did know of this being a popular phrase in the States. I'm not entirely convinced the proper Irish form shouldn't be added.

It's slightly worrying the way info on Wikipedia so quickly is replicated amongst other language WPs and mirrors. The potential for mis-information sticking this way is slightly disturbing. I shall have to be more careful! In any case, it's good to have a sharp eye!

Zoney 12:44, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Relieved to see your reply, Zoney: I was beginning to think it was something I'd said..!

As you say, it really is a concern the way some Wiki-stuff can breed unchecked. I've even taken now, when googling (especially when I seriously doubt the authenticity of information), to including "-site:wikipedia.org" in my search string. -- Picapica 18:49, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Trunk and non-Trunk N Roads in the Republic

My understanding is that numbers N51 and up are non-trunk primary, those below trunk. It's obvious from maps and road signs as trunk routes are mapped solid green and have green signs, non trunk N roads are mapped either green/white or red and have black on white signs. Same pattern for signs as in NI and indeed Britain.

The highest numbered trunk road, at least a few years ago, was the N32, which was an eastward extension of the M50 beyond the Belfast road towards Howth, although given the pace of road building in the South there may have been an N33 or N34 added.

This also explains why there are no N roads in the 40s. Gerry Lynch 10:04, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Roads mapped as green/white on ordinance survey maps are "National Secondary Routes", and the green routes are "National Primary Routes" (Hence both using the N-prefix). Those two terms are used by ordinance survey, and elsewhere for official use. I don't think the secondary routes have black/white signs - I think they also have green, with only regional and local roads having black/white. Pretty certain the N69 near Limerick uses green signage (my nearest secondary route).

But I think you are correct on the numbering. I had suspected there were no N4Xs.

As regards highest numbered N route - is there anything in the 80s? I'm not so familiar with the secondary routes (I think the only one on the Limerick area OSI map is the N69!). I know the N71 is the West Cork route.

Zoney 11:12, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)

As far as the road colouring is concerned - I can't remember what way the roads through the Midlands are signed - you are closer than I am so assumer you're right.

There is definitely an N81 - it's the main road through Tallaght, and then extends out towards Powerscourt and eventually into County Carlow. Gerry Lynch

[edit] Hino: American or Japanese?

Hello Zoney, I noticed you labeled Hino as an American company; are you aware that there's a Japanese company of the same name? I believe they're a subsidiary of Toyota. Perhaps that's the company you had in mind? I'm not aware of an American company by that name. Fg2 10:55, Jul 30, 2004 (UTC)

It's probably one and the same. I looked on google, found hino.com, and perhaps unsurprisingly it was US-orientated. They didn't have any company info - and the contact details were US - I just made an assumption. They wouldn't be the biggest brand of Artic in Ireland either - and the website showed US "trucks" (with the protruding nose) so I based it on that too. Glad you picked up on it! Zoney 11:12, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thanks, I've made the change. Also found them mentioned on the Toyota page, so I linked to it. Fg2 04:32, Jul 31, 2004 (UTC)