Talk:Final Fantasy XII

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To-do list for Final Fantasy XII: edit  · history  · watch  · refresh FA push (see section below) Priority 1 (top) This article is within the scope of multiple WikiProjects Click [show] for further details This article is within the scope of WikiProject Video games. For more information, visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. CVG Portal FA This article has been rated as FA-Class on the assessment scale. Mid This article is on a subject of mid priority within gaming for inclusion in Wikipedia 1.0. CVG To-do: edit  Gaming Collaboration of the week: Baldur's Gate series Expand: New CVG Articles, Normality, Pac-Man World 2, Operation Flashpoint: Elite, Call of Juarez, Galactic Civilizations II: Dark Avatar, Ford Street Racing, Betrayal at Krondor CVG Peer Review: List of F-Zero titles, Kya: Dark Lineage, Wii Remote, Dynasty Warriors 4, The Sims 2, The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past, Kirby's Dream Land, Electronic sports, Fire Emblem, Dante (Devil May Cry), The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, Final Fantasy XII, Sonic the Hedgehog (16-bit), Classes in World of Warcraft Cleanup: Age of Mythology, Mario Kart: Double Dash!!, Betrayal at Krondor, List of Nintendo trademarks Merge: Deletions / Essential articles / Magazines Assess and Prioritise articles (Log) This article is part of WikiProject Square Enix, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Square Enix-related merchandise and video games on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. This article is part of WikiProject Final Fantasy, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Final Fantasy-related merchandise and video games on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. Final Fantasy XII is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do. Final Fantasy XII is part of the "Final Fantasy titles" series, a featured topic identified as among the best series of articles produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do. Article Milestones Date Process Result November 7, 2006 Featured topic candidate Promoted February 23, 2007 Good article nominee Not listed February 24, 2007 Good article review Listed March 25, 2007 Peer review Reviewed March 31, 2007 Featured article candidate Promoted Current Status: Featured article

Archives Archive 1 (August 2005 — September 2006) Archive 2 (October 2006 — February 2007) Contents 1 Featured Article push 1.1 Lead 1.2 Gameplay 1.3 Awards 1.4 Update 1.5 Audio 1.6 Development 1.7 Remaining issues 2 Bugs, bugs, bugs 3 Box shot discussion 4 Update - remaining issues to tackle? 5 The final hump - merchandise sourcing 6 FA

[edit] Featured Article push

Hi everyone; this article is really coming together. Think we can set a goal to get it to FAC by April 1? I'll help out when I can. — Deckiller 03:25, 5 March 2007 (UTC) Few things to consider:

• • Lead — it may need to be compressed into three or four paragraphs, but that's a simple fix.
  • Gameplay section — this section looks like it has too much information in it. For example, subsections for loot and hunts are not really necessary; they can be explained in one paragraph each. I'm not sure that elaborate examples are allowed, as I've seen them cited as original research and text that cannot be attributed to a reliable source. I have the strategy guide for this game, so I can take care of the referencing for this section. Consolidation should not be a major issue as well.
  • Plot and setting section — kudos to everyone for the excellent consolidation here. The main things I see are some prose redundancies and words that should be avoided ("utilized", "in order [to]"), and a need for a paragraph or two on the creation of the characters for the game. That should not be difficult to find. The length of the synopsis is perfect.
  • Development section — it's already quite good, and seems to cover the appropriate topics in an appropriate length. There is an overlinking problem, and two stubby paragraphs.
  • Audio section — looks pretty good; it's succinct and covers the major aspects well. Some more redundancy issues ("a vast majority of" should be "most", for example). A summary of the other albums (1-2 sentences) might be a good way to flesh the section out.
  • Recpetion and criticism section — so far, it looks like it's off to a solid start. There are some one or two sentence paragraphs, which should be integrated into the rest of the section. The awards list should probably be turned into a paragraph of prose. The legacy minisection can probably be transferred to the lead.
  • Merchandise section — very nice; again, just some minor organizational and prose issues. I also see a paragraph with few cites.
  • See also section — there are usually good to have; perhaps we can find something not linked but related to put into a see also section?

I think we have the beginnings of a gem here. — Deckiller 03:44, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lead

I noticed some issues with the lead when compared to the FF Featured articles:

• • The last paragraph, which explains the cosplay event and the hacked information, does not really need to be in the lead; it can be copy and pasted to the development or reception section.
  • The brief synopsis is fine as the middle paragraph; a new third paragraph explaining the major gameplay changes and the game's reception (currently summarized as a sentence in the opening para) is a good move.
  • In other words, the first para is the general overview as it pretty much is right now, the second para is the brief summary of the story, and the third is a summary of the game's changes and unique features, as well as the game's reception.

— Deckiller 04:03, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

The development section, you mention has two stubby paragraphs? Could it be the second and the last? I think the second could be moved to Settings, under Characters. 私はBluerです 05:23, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I think that character info belongs in the character section. — Deckiller 14:41, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I feel like this is important. Thus, I'm temporarily taking myself out of wiki-break to see this through. I'll do a thorough copy-edit later tonight and start working on your points above throughout the week. Axem Titanium 22:57, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Great; glad to see you back. There also seems to be another FA push in the works on Final Fantasy XI, so it's looking good :) This is a good break from the gameplay articles. — Deckiller 03:08, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gameplay

I just finished my copyedit of the gameplay section. Of note, I removed the stuff about hunts, the different schools of magic and the random treasure chests because I felt they were too detailed and were nonessential gameplay elements. Also, I rearranged some stuff so it would be more logical, although I don't feel like it's perfect yet. More citations would be nice too, so Deckiller, if you could help out a little with some of that? I can only cite reviews that discuss gameplay but I don't have the guide. Axem Titanium 01:37, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Nice work. I feel the gameplay section may still be too long, so I'm going to give it another trim and see what else can be removed. I should have the sourcing for the section done tonight; I've put most of it on hold until the section is fully consolidated. — Deckiller 01:50, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

I think we're at a decent length, unless there's any objections. I'll start sourcing. — Deckiller 02:07, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

It looks good. Go for it. I'll copyedit Development tomorrow. Axem Titanium 02:32, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Awards

I'm going to attempt the Awards section. Bluerです。 ^なにか? 13:49, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Looks good; we need to get sources for those sentences with fact tags though. — Deckiller 00:12, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Update

Lead and Gameplay are done; Setting, Characters, and Plot are almost done. — Deckiller 00:30, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Audio

Just finished that, Deck has already had a preliminary look at it. Any other comments? Axem Titanium 04:34, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Development

I still need to add stuff about delays and artistic design but can anyone think of other stuff? Axem Titanium 04:34, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, there is other stuff, that I am unsure of. Most of the designers were actually veterans of the FF series and the FFT series as well as Vagrant Story. Yoshitaka Amano contributed to the image illustrations as with the previous games starting with FFVII and also the title logo designs. The art directors were Hideo Minaba and Isamu Kamikokuryo. Yoichi Wada served as executive producer with Kawazu. Kazutoyo Maehiro designed the battle systems. I am not sure if there are many designers. Two of the voice actors for the Japanese version did motion capture, that being Kouhei Takeda and Yuna Mikuni. --Sjones23 19:40, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

In the FFXII Collector's Edition bonus DVD, there are interviews with directors Hiroyuki Itō, scenario writer Daisuke Watanabe, English translators Alexander O. Smith and Joseph Reeder, lead battle system designer Kazutoyo Maehiro, battle system designer Hiroshi Tomomatsu, main character designer & background design supervisor Akihiko Yoshida, art directors Hideo Minaba and Isamu Kamikokuryo, movie director Eiji Fujii. According to the NA FFXII manual, the Executive producers were both Akitoshi Kawazu and Yoichi Wada. --Sjones23 20:15, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

You've already added the Yoichi Wada thing but mentioning every single member of the dev team is not necessary. That's what IMDb is for. I'm talking about how the game developed during the dev process. Axem Titanium 20:59, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Whoops! I almost forgot about that. My fault. I was afraid of that. You are trying to save me work that is not necessarily needed, so that is good to hear, Axem. Well, there is no turning back for me on doing how the game got developed. --Sjones23 00:04, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Good job and keep up the good work, Axem. We can't ignore important people in the infobox just so you know. I really like most of your comments. --Sjones23 00:23, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Remaining issues

It seems the major issues are expanding the Development section, reworking the feedback parts of the reception section (instead of listing scores already posted in the chart, we should have a para for praise, and a para for criticism, or two paras of mixed), and citing and compressing the Merchandise section. — Deckiller 00:01, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, everyone, there will be no turning back for good when it becomes an FA. I express some doubt about the FFXII article and that it it could not be an FA, maybe. Once it is an FA, we will review this FA together throughout the year. --Sjones23 00:23, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I wonder why you have doubts on the FA-ability of this article? Bluerです。 ^なにか? 17:43, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

This article is coming together at a decent rate, and it reminds me of the X, VIII, and X-2 pushes. I don't see why anyone is randomly doubting the push...— Deckiller 18:37, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

So, this article is comin' together at a decent rate, huh, Deckiller? Sometimes, I've got doubts on my mind about myself and the FFXII article because some FAs get demoted because of some FAs were nominated for FARCs, like in Super Mario 64 for instance. I don't really doubt the FA push. I think we should review FAs, for example in the FF Series and Chrono Trigger. IMHO (In My Honest Opinion), I think that Yoshitaka Amano, the image illustrator and title logo designer, and Miwa Shoda, the co-scenario writer with Watanabe deserve credit as the key members. The outcome depends not only on you, but also on me. Deckiller, we have to work together, ya know what I mean? By the way, Deckiller, did you adopt me by any chance? --Sjones23 20:03, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Featured articles are reviewed if they aren't up to current Wikipedia FA standards, not if there are minor content disputes. For example, Super Mario 64 was removed as a FA because it lacked inline citations and had serious lead and POV issues, and little work was done to fix those issues in the 1+ month given. The Final Fantasy articles were worked on within the last 6-8 months; they still conform to the current criteria. Minor issues are usually handled on the talkpages, not on FAR. Issuing a review for an article because one disagrees with a content point will result in the review getting delisted, and even if it isn't, like I said, it distracts everyone, because the anti-fiction nazis will swarm the review and waste our time. The key is to elevate quality in phases by getting all articles to conform to the current featured article criteria, instead of distracting ourselves by constantly and unnecessarily revisiting the same 3 articles while the others remain in poor condition. If we spend time distracting ourselves by issuing reviews over articles that do not need them, then we'll be spending time debating the same old fictional coverage issues with the same old editors, and not getting anywhere.

Again, most of the articles placed on FAR are there because they lack inline citations, which was not even used back in 2004 when featured articles were started (most of those articles on FAR are from that area, which we call "brilliant prose" era, because some of the articles featured back then ramble on for ages without crisp, succinct prose). The key is to conform to modern criteria and ensure the article reaches featured status; then, we revisit the article when new standards are pushed at Wikipedia:Featured article criteria, which usually happens every year and a half or so. The last major change to the FA criteira was an emphasis on inline citations (this article already has more than 100, and most of the FF articles have at least 40; most of the early FAs had 0)

As for the adoption: unfortunately, I have been unable to even devote significant time to adoptees, because of all the other projects going on. However, User:Darthgriz98 seems to be taking in a lot of people. — Deckiller 20:23, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I see what you mean. So, Deckiller, I have been adopted recently by Darthgrix98. Ermmmmmm..... Deckiller...... what do you want me to do? --Sjones23 00:03, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Whatever you feel like working on. Being bold and working on pages that need sources and content is probably a good thing to do, or copy-editing articles, or working with the FA pushes...whatever you feel like doing :) Congrats on the award :) — Deckiller 02:12, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bugs, bugs, bugs

Why can't I find a bugs section? Is that really a good article when it completely ignores the controller bug problem? Why can't I find a section on negative opinions? Phew, no wonder the wikipedia is down the road... looks like the happydisneypedia this days.

Sad former user who sends this message to the cancerberus-babysitter of the ffseries, not having found a single, useful link for sending feedback on the article, but finding some dozens of who knows what they will do made for wiki savvies. As a user, I feel downplayed and ignored. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.121.74.212 (talk) 16:06, 15 March 2007 (UTC).

Err... what are you on about? There are no bugs in this game that are notable enough to mention- this site isn't GameFAQs or whatever. Also, anyone can edit Wikipedia, so if you see something awry, fix it yourself! Sarrandúin ^{[ Talk + Contribs ]} 17:42, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

The Recpetion section is on queue for a reworking within the next couple days. — Deckiller 17:47, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Box shot discussion

I just thought I'd point out that there is a discussion here on which box shot should be used in this article. Please add your views and comments on it there. Mattyatty 10:17, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Update - remaining issues to tackle?

Honestly, I don't think we have to go into details about what each website liked and hated; I personally feel the reception section is fine. Based on what everybody said above, I guess the main issues left are a slight expansion of the development section and references for the rest of the merchandise section? — Deckiller 10:36, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Do you think we should add pictures to the Setting and Story section? Appropriate ones, mind you. Bluerです。 ^なにか? 21:11, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

It's not really necessary; usually, the more images we add to an article, the more image nazis will complain. — Deckiller 21:13, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The final hump - merchandise sourcing

There are two paragraphs in the merchandise section that lack sourcing. Before we go to FA, methinks we should probably get those paras sourced. I don't have ultimanias for that ultimania paragraph, however. — Deckiller 05:14, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

All facts have been given reliable citations. Now for the FA push! Good luck! Bluerです。 ^なにか? 12:26, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Kariteh and Deckiller, if you're gonna trim it, do it carefully. You want refs, there you go! Being a consumer who really bought the guide, I feel irked. Bluerです。 ^なにか? 04:22, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Now that there are refs, it's easier to keep the information. No need to feel irked. — Deckiller 04:43, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Deckiller, Bluerfn, Kariteh and Axem Titanium, you guys, along with me, will have to work together. Good luck! let me know if there is something you need to help me on. Sjones23 16:36, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] FA

Congratulations everyone! Second FA this week! Teamwork has again paid off, and shown how cohesive we are as a WikiProject. We are getting closer and closer. — Deckiller 17:13, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Finally! Congratulations! Wow, big THANKS to everyone that contributed for the FA! I was so looking forward to this! =D edit:And to think it came after reverting that IP's edit. Bluerです。 ^なにか? 17:27, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for all the help, Deckiller! I was looking forward to this and thanks for helping me out for making the FFXII the FA. Sjones23 15:03, 1 April 2007 (UTC)