Talk:United States nationality law

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Contents 1 Dual citizenship of Canadian Americans 2 History of US citizenship 3 Double nationality? 4 The Rest 5 Modifications 6 Follow Manual of Style 7 giving up u.s. citizenship 8 Vandalism 9 born in the United States 10 Removed a CAT 11 First Citizens 12 Citizenship in regards to marriage 13 Retention of US Citizenship 14 Is that really correct? - Through birth abroad to two United States citizens

[edit] Dual citizenship of Canadian Americans

Please see the Wayne Gretzky article. Wayne is a citizen of both America and Canada. He has lived in America for the last 20 years with his American family. However there are several like minded canadians who refuse to acknowledge his Canadian American status. They have an admin (Wknight94)that likes to ban people with different opinions. Can anybody help with this situation? Lex393384

?? If he was born in Canada, he can't have dual citizenship, although if he's still Canadian and his kids were born in the US, they can. Since I was born in Canada and live in the US, I'm pretty sure about this. Gzuckier 17:38, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

If he is a naturalized US citizen and has not formally renounced his Canadian citizenship, then he is indeed a dual citizen. This is because Canada does not recognize the US naturalization oath as a bona fide renunciation of citizenship. [1] Merenta 18:20, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

The discussion in Talk:Wayne Gretzky seemed, to me, to involve the issue of whether "Canadian-American" is primarily a cultural matter, or whether it's a cut-and-dried legal issue. No one seemed to be questioning the objective fact that Gretzky now holds both US and Canadian citizenship. However, people were definitely disagreeing over there about whether the average hockey fan thinks of Gretzky as an American, or both a Canadian and an American — and about whether this makes any difference. Richwales 19:32, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Also, there have been some deleted entries in the talk page and insults sent to moosehead007. Is the argument then what his fans perceive Gretzky to be or what he actually is? I am very confused with all this. Perhaps this is because, like Wayne I was born in one counry (Russia) and also like Wayne have lived half my life in another country (Chicago). I spent the first half of my life(13 years) in Russia, but I consider myself to be an American, given where I live, where I plan to continue living, the citizenship status of my family, and my own citizenship. Russia is still part of my identity and family history, but I am not forever bound to it. Is my wife (brazilian born) also to be brazilian forever? Maybe this doesn't matter, but I am very confused. Regardless I think Wknight's conduct has been very questionable, he has used his admin status, whatever his good intentions, in a careless manner. Any thoughts? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 199.43.32.87 (talk) 20:41, 12 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] History of US citizenship

Is it appropriate to add a history of requirements for US citizenship? Should it be here or in another linked article?

I see two threads: 1) constitution and legislation, 2) judicial rulings; but maybe the two can't be separated? Mulp 17:53, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Double nationality?

Anyone knows what the deal is with united states citizenship and citizenship of other nations at the same time? is this allowed? Can someone expand the article on that? --62.251.90.73 14:21, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Rich Wales Dual Citizenship FAQ is a useful resource JAJ 04:14, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

The US government does not forbid you from becomming a citizen of another country (there was a supreme court ruling i believe), however the US will only recognize you as being an American citizen not one of another. So the American govt does not recognize dual citizenship, but will not prevent you from having it. Mac Domhnaill 01:30, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Rest

Try to expand the page and double check my facts.- B-101 17:37, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I've added quite a bit of information from public-domain sources about who is a US citizen by birth and on the naturalization process. I've left the "rights and responsibilities" part alone, although it could use some revamping as well. I also added a link to Citizenship, which discusses many of these issues in a nation-neutral way. Merenta 17:54, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Can anyone add information about renouncing one's U.S. citizenship? (Is it allowed, and if so, how does one go about doing it?) --Angr/_comhrá 08:56, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Won't add it now, but in most cases it is allowed, and can be done before a judge or diplomat. In many cases other renunciations of citizenship "don't count", for instance these days a renunciation said during a naturalization oath for another country (resulting in multiple citizenship) is not considered binding by the United States. You also can't renounce your citizenship when accused of or imprisoned for a crime in America. Most significantly, if the IRS suspects that a motivation for your renunciation of citizenship is to evade taxes (and it will generally presume so if you live overseas and your income exceeds foreign income exclusion), you will be required to file and pay income tax with the IRS for ten years, even after your citizenship has been renounced and you live abroad. Additionally, you can lose (or implicitly renounce) your citizenship by doing certain acts, such as fighting in war against the United States or holding a high-level policy-making position with a foreign country. None of these guarantee loss of citizenship however, that is at the discretion of the US. 130.91.65.132 11:52, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Hey, isn't vice-president possible even if you aren't a "natural-born" citzen? --Chronoflare 16:32, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

The constitutional requirements for qualifying for Vice President are the same as for the President. This is because prior to the ratification of the 12th Amendment in 1804, the presidential candidate who received the second-largest number of electoral votes became Vice President. So in answer to your question: no, you must be a natural-born U.S. citizen to be the Vice President. See alsoVice President of the United States. --Chopsticks 04:50, August 11, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Modifications

I've modified this article to include the 'Loss of US Citizenship', based both on personal experience and the State Department's website. I've also changed the format so that citizenship is specified in terms of its 'rights' and 'requirements'. There is no 'right' in the United States to vote, as this right can be removed for criminals, nor is there any risk of deportation (as that follows under the right to abode in the country without restriction, which is primary to issues of deportation). I may change that to be simply that a US Citizen may enter and exit the United States 'freely', but essentially it is the right to enter and exit without being subject to any immigration requirements (though US travel bans constitute something similar). Hope the updates are useful. Nick Kerr on 21 July, 2005 at 8:04 (GMT)

[edit] Follow Manual of Style

Please do not make changes to purposely defy the guidelines set by the wikipedia:Manual of Style. The intialism for "United States" in American English contains periods. This is noted in the Manual of Style. The Manual of Style also asks us to write in third, not the second, person and use double, not single, quotation marks. --Jiang 09:42, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for your suggestion! When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make whatever changes you feel are needed. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the Edit this page link at the top. You don't even need to log in! (Although there are some reasons why you might like to…) The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome.

, cause the 2nd person thing is annoying me, but I'm lazy right now. Nelson Ricardo 02:18, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

The usage of second person i really annoying, it's not consistent with otehr articlres and it makes the article sound like green card spam or these annoying banners. Anyway, I came here because I was curious if Americans are citizens of a given state and the United States or just the United States, but I couldn't find that info.

[edit] giving up u.s. citizenship

i was wondering if a person can reduce his status of citizenship. for example, if i become a german citizen, and i give up my american citizenship, can i be a permanent resident of usa instead of giving up my citizenship completely? just so i can go in and out of the u.s.?

The State Department article Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship by Persons Claiming a Right of Residence in the United States discusses this. The answer appears to be no. If you renounce U.S. citizenship you become a foreigner with no special rights in the U.S. JAJ 16:57, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

No, a person cannot change the rules of their citizenship, only the status. If you wish to retain the right to abode in the United States you must hold a US passport or greencard. As a previous dual national, I chose to retain British citizenship in favour of US citizenship. By doing so I've lost the right to be a US citizen and the ability to reside in the US without immigration status, but I could apply to be a US resident, if I wanted to be. However, the application process would be the same as for all other non-citizens, rather than a reduced entry requirement. While loss of US citizenship has many advantages as a foreign national (such as simplified taxation, no State Department 'warnings', and no liability for national service), it also involves the loss of the automatic right to residency. Nick Kerr 15:38, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Neither the US nor the United Kingdom forces dual nationals to "choose" a citizenship. This is a common myth. JAJ 16:51, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

There is no requirement to renounce citizenship and I know many dual nationals. However, there are consequences to holding more than one passport, which each person will need to decide. Similarly, if you are a US citizen and wish to become a German citizen, there is no requirement that you renounce US citizenship (though the act of taking a foreign citizenship can be seen as a desire not to be a US citizen, but this is subject to a case-by-case review). However, should you renounce US citizenship you cannot retain the right to abode in the US without the same precedures as other foreign nationals. Nick Kerr 17:17, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

This article seems to be subject to a lot of vandalism at the moment. Whoever is doing it could you please bugger off? Nick Kerr 23:15, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] born in the United States

   Under section 2.1.1, regarding the following:

"Children born in the United States (including, in most cases, Puerto Rico, Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands, the U.S. Virgin Islands, and the Panama Canal Zone before it was returned to Panama), are U.S. citizens at birth (unless born to foreign diplomatic staff), regardless of the citizenship or nationality of the parents (see Jus soli)."

1. What is the specific meaning of the word "including"? Is it used in an expansive or restrictive sense ( only the following, or not limited to the following)?

2. Is the use of the term United States to refre to the United States and the several states (geographical) or does it only involve the United States and territories (political/territorial)?

The reason I inquire is because generally as used in statutes the term "includes" is restrictive, such as in defenitions, and quite often the term "United States" includes the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, Guam, etc...

I'm fairly certain that children born in the District of Columbia are citizens, so if we have worded the text in a way which appears to omit it then we should correct that error. Thanks for pointing it out. Can you fix it? -Will Beback 05:46, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps changing "including" to something like "including, as well," would do it. The intended meaning seemed clear to me from the original wording, though. Maybe I've spent too much time in verbal bouts with the anti-tax nuts who split hairs over what "includes" means and try to insist you are liable for US income tax only if you were born in the District of Columbia, on a military base, or in a post office! Richwales 21:48, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removed a CAT

I removed Category:Government of the United States|Citizenship from the Cat list as this article covers a specific facet of the US Govt. that is covered by other Cats. The U.S. Govt. Cat is for the branches, agencies and departments of the government, not the laws of the government.

Epolk 22:10, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] First Citizens

When America won the revolutionary war, how did they decide specifically who would be citizens in the new nation?--Xlegiofalco 17:48, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citizenship in regards to marriage

I was wondering what occurs when you marry someone who does not have American citizenship. What if their spouse was here on a visa or illegally, for instance, and the couple wanted to live in America?

I assume you are referring to an American who marries a non-American. The American can apply for a K-3 visa for his or her spouse while applying for an IR1 immigrant visa (green card). Whether the spouse is prosecuted in the case of illegal immigration depends on local laws. Kraikk 16:01, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Retention of US Citizenship

Being a US Citizen of Filipino Ethnicity I have to wonder how this worked out following the independence of the Commonwealth of the Philippine Islands. I ask this because my grandfather retained his US Citizenship while serving in the United States Navy during the time of the transition, where as my Grandmother did not.

Would this be the right place to ask this, or is this better in the Tydings-McDuffie Act?

All Filipinos were classified as aliens by the Tydings-McDuffie Act. It is likely that your grandfather obtained American citizenship prior to Philippine independence. Kraikk 16:09, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Is that really correct? - Through birth abroad to two United States citizens

In section "Through birth abroad to two United States citizens" is said:

In most cases, one is a U.S. citizen if both of the following are true:

1. Both his or her parents were U.S. citizens at the time of their birth
2. At least one of his or her parents lived in the United States prior to their birth.

Is that really correct, instead of the following?

In most cases, one is a U.S. citizen if both of the following are true:

1. Both his or her parents were U.S. citizens at the time of birth of the person in question
2. At least one of his or her parents lived in the United States prior to the birth of the person in question.

Cheers, MikeZ 13:34, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I guess they're both correct, but the former is poorly written. The antecedent for "their" is misplaced. I'm going to go through and add a more concise version.Hwonder talk contribs 23:43, 14 March 2007 (UTC)