Talk:Balearic Islands
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[edit] Dialect
i've been curious as to whether or not the balearic islands have their own dialect or dialects of spanish, but i haven't even been able to find any internet articles on this subject.Gringo300 18:07, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
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- The actual language of Balears is Catalan, used with Balearic variants. If you follow the links, you will see how there are important differences between the islands. In fact, there are also a lot of different variants between zones in Mallorca, (that should be added in Balearic article, (to my TODO list)) even between towns separated only 4km! Anyway, all catalan speakers in Balears understand perfectly each other, as well as most catalan speakers from outside Balears.
- Although Spanish is not the authochtonous language of Balears, it's used by a significant part of the population, mainly immigrants from other zones of Spain (which represent a large portion of Balears population, though). So, there's not an authochtonous spanish dialect.
- John C PI 19:20, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
While Spanish (Castilian) is not the native tongue of the Balearic Islands, (Catalan is), all Balears actually speak it, some with a strong Catalan accent. But this does not constitute a dialect.
Tantris 18:53, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Spanish government
Can someone explain me why does the Spanish government use Illes Balears (Catalan name) instead of Islas Baleares when it does not use other official names of autonomous communities in languages different from Spanish (like Catalunya or Euskadi)? User:Marco Neves
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- But it does use Catalunya (and Girona, Lleida, etc). Catalunya and Illes Balears are the official names and their respective Autonomous Governments have exclusive rights to set official place names on their territories as well, and the official place names are always the Catalan ones (except in Val d'Aran where the only official names are the Aranese ones).
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- Things are a bit more complicated for Euskadi and Valencia: where a place has different forms for Spanish vs Basque or Catalan, both forms are considered official. E.g. Vitoria/Gasteiz or Jijona/Xixona.
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- Don't know for sure about other Communities were the same question might aply:
- Galicia (Spanish vs Galician)
- Asturias (Spanish vs Asturian)
- part of Navarre (Spanish vs Basque)
- parts of Aragon (Spanish vs Aragonese or Catalan)
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- Hi! Thanks for the remarks. I mostly agree with you. However, please note this facts. The official Spanish version of the Autonomy Statute of Catalonia is "Estatuto de Autonomia de Cataluña" and not "Catalunya". In Balears case, it is "Estatuto de Autonomia de las Illes Balears" and not "Islas Baleares". You can see this in any official compilation of Spanish autonomy statutes. In fact, Spanish government, in offical documents in Spanish, uses the form "Cataluña" and, for Balears, "Illes Balears". Why this inconsistency?
- I know that, in Catalonia, the Catalan names are the only one official and so I've included an explanation of that fact in Barcelona article. But Spanish Government uses the Spanish translations (which makes some sense, since the Spanish government also uses Spanish versions of foreign names, like Londres, Oporto, etc.). My question is this: why Illes Balears in Spanish? Thanks! User:Marco Neves (undated)
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The citation link in the article for the claim that "The Catalan name Illes Balears is used by the Spanish government" is http://www.caib.es/roottxt/altreswebs/les_illes.es.jsp, but that site appears to be from the government of the Balearic Islands, not of Spain, so I don't see how it can demonstrate what is claimed. -- Jmabel | Talk 19:52, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Ballistics
I read, when I was a kid, that the term ballistics is derived from the ancient pronounciation of the balearic isles -- that the warriors from there were known for the ability to use a sling as a weapon. But I won't add this either entry until I can document it elsewhere.
- According to ballistics, the term seems to be from Greek ballein, "to throw." - Montréalais 06:00, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)
[edit] "PP" link
I just changed the link "PP", that addressed to "Partit_Popular" to "Partido_Popular". That article already exists, and it has no sense to have different names for that party because of its central organization
[edit] Why Catalan-Aragonese invasion
I think this is not correct, the Islands were invaded by the crown of aragon. Not by a unexisting catalan state. If anyone is kind enough to correct this to aragonese invasion, it will be much apreciated.
Mmmh...there was a catalan state, under the rule of the king of aragon, who actually lived in barcelona. Catalonia had their own laws and court. Aragon, Valencia and Mallorca where kingdoms, catalonia wasn't, but it had the same institutions than the others.
On the other hand, the conquest of mallorca was a catalan conquest, it came under the rule of the catalan nobility. This is different to what happened in valencia, which was conquered by the catalans and by the aragonese. Triticumman
[edit] Adding UNREF, CLEAN, and Stubs 18 April 2006
re: sentence: The Catalan name Illes Balears is used by the Spanish government [1]. This is sole 'referecenced footnote in the whole article and the link gives this error message:
"HTTP Status 404 - /roottxt/altreswebs/les_illes.es.jsp
type Status report
message /roottxt/altreswebs/les_illes.es.jsp
description: The requested resource (/roottxt/altreswebs/les_illes.es.jsp) is not available."
Thus the following UNREF template:
- I conjecture this error message may mean an English language version is not available, but I have no way of knowing as an ignorant American with only English.
- There is much that can be added to the history of this island. The British/French/Spanish reconquests, in particular ought to be sketched out. I've run across references to them in Naval Period fiction by two authors, so the Napoleonic wars are a good bet for some period information.
- There is so little text that the tables overshadowed and dominated the article, pushing the other images down off the bottom and hogging the right side, for a very unbalanced ugly looking article. The picture and map were both about three screens down well below any text. UGLY!!!
- Since MOS is just a guideline, NOT A POLICY, I'd advise leaving it alone as is until the text expansion covers at least four full screens of viewing.
- Adjusted the template to the left side and that better balances the even longer table on the right side. Added a section header to ease navigation and pull the reader down to that section, which includes other horizontally laid out navigation aids.
- This is both better looking, and self-consistent.
- Little mention of industry and business, save one anemic reference to tourism. I got an email from a US Marine today visiting the Island of Minorca, so there may be a NATO military base there.
- I'm going to see if he can send some digital pics, and will seek clarification of how he came to be there.
- Asserting the CLEAN, UNREF, COPYEDIT Templates to attempt to draw some expansion help. My plate is full. There has got to be a lot more that could be said about such storied islands!
- If you have no inclination to research, expand, and add, please leave the templates alone for others to respond to.
Best wishes, all! FrankB 04:38, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Six greek variants of name in opening section?
Do we really need six greek variants of the name Beleares in the opening section? I strongly suggest a separate paragraph with alternative spellings instead. MikeZ 11:32, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
- Concur, especially because they are mostly minor spelling variants in a language that had somewhat loose orthography. - Jmabel | Talk 22:09, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Geography, Politics and Culture
Catalan countries?? While it is true that Cataluña refers to us this way, this cannot be taken as a worldwide name for us, since nobody BUT the Catalans calls us that.
[User: Daniela Huguet] 17:32, 04 September 2006 [GMT +2]
That's not true..I come from mallorca and I use this expression to refer to those territories where the catalan language is spoken. Triticumman
[edit] Name
Unless I am very mistaken, the current Spanish central government uses "Comunidad Autónoma de las Illes Balears", not "Comunidad Autónoma de las Islas Baleares". They are pretty consistent these days about using Catalan-language place names in Catalan-speaking regions. It is certainly worth mentioning the name Islas Baleares, because there are plenty of native Spanish-speakers there, including many who are not also native Catalan-speakers. In any event, the accusation that changing to "Comunidad Autónoma de las Illes Balears" constitutes vandalism is way out of line.
I'm aware that this has come up before, and it could use a solid citation either way. - Jmabel | Talk 00:32, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Copyedit
I have taken the liberty of copyediting the article. I have removed the following from the Ancient history section, as I couldn't see what it added to the text: (διὰ τὸ γυμνοὺς καὶ ἀχλαίνους, ἐκεῖ ἐχενεχθῆναι).
I also note that hardly anything in this article is sourced, probably because so much of it is liften straight from the Dictionary of Greek and Roman Geography by William Smith, which was written in 1857. Surely, more recent information is available. -- User talk:DetCoot 11:06, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] The Catalan-speaking territories Table
This table, which includes the following subdivisions: (History of Catalonia · Counts of Barcelona · Treaty of the Pyrenees · Catalan constitutions · Generalitat de Catalunya · Generalitat Valenciana · Consell General de les Valls (Andorra) · Politics of Catalonia · Catalan nationalism) among others, has nothing to do in this autonomous community wikipage. For this reason, I am erasing it.
For the catalan speaking explanation and link to the govern of Baleares inside the table, I believe it is already correctly explained in the normal text Maurice27 20:20, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
- Reverting massive vandalism from Maurice27. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Northern_Catalonia#New_Edition Toniher 23:18, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
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- Don't leave it there... Explain to everybody my "vandalism"... Please, explain what are those links doing in the Balearic Islands page. The link you're giving does not explain anything.
- Maybe you're the one vandalizing... Maurice27 16:32, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] The Catalan-speaking territories Table, part 2
What has to do a completely pro-catalan biased table in this page? Ok let's see it:
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It is described as a template of the territories where Catalan is spoken. Ok, I could accept that... If only the "language section", and not the others, was included. But, then, we have:
- "History" section:, one of my favourites, where we can see links to History of Catalonia, Counts of Barcelona, Treaty of the Pyrenees, Catalan constitutions (All of them REAAAALLY connected in ALL ways to the Balearic Islands) and Crown of Aragon (Thank God, at least one with ties with the Balearic Islands).
- Next Section, "Geography". Here we can find some WORLWIDE KNOWN Balear territories such as Catalonia, Land of Valencia,Northern Catalonia, Franja de Ponent, Andorra (My GOD, this should be studied by the UN, being Andorra an independent state, it becomes Balear!!!), L'Alguer and Carxe. Some of these are even using improper catalan names instead of the official ones, (but of course, I am an "anti-catalan"...).
- Next section, "Government and Politics". Here we can find some ABSOLUTLY related to the Balears links , such as Generalitat de Catalunya, Generalitat Valenciana, Consell General de les Valls (Andorra), the funny Politics of Catalonia and the hillarious Catalan nationalism
- Last two sections, "Traditions". We have links to DEEP IN THE HEART balear traditions such as Castells, Sardana, Caganer or Tió de Nadal (ALL OF THEM BEING -->UNIQUE<-- to Catalonia. We can also look for some fantastic balear artists links, such as Salvador Dalí, Joan Miró and Antoni Tàpies all of them being born in....... Gentlemen, I let you guess......... Right!!! Born in Catalonia!! Not a single balear artist is mentioned.
I hope these proofs the completely biased content of this table, and wish it to be ERASED from all non-catalan wikipages.
Maurice27 21:17, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
- Feel free to add more Balearic-related content to the template. But it does belong here. - Jmabel | Talk 19:28, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Vandalism by User:Toniher
User:Toniher is constantly reverting my contrubutions and accusing me of Vandalism... Maybe this morning the the Balearic Islands have suddenly become part of Catalonia and I'm unaware of that fact. Meanwhile IT IS STILL AN AUTONOMOUS COMMUNITY OF SPAIN and this article should say it so. Nobody is going to include a template with the "comarques of Catalonia" or a table with "History of Catalonia, Catalan constitutions, Generalitat de Catalunya" facts in a non-catalonian wikipage.
I will not... I repeat, I will not tolerate this pro-catalan acting towards my own mother's country!!!
This said, I would like to kindly ask all the contributors which feel the "urgent need" to fool and fill the Wikipedia world with Pan-Catalanism, Catalan Countries wannabe, Catalan nationalism and just plain false pseudo-Catalan History to restraint themselves from doing it. Not all the surrounding lands to Catalonia feel the need to become part of it, and the english Wikipedia will not become a highway to "export" their history "a la carte". Giving for right the fact that we should not generalize, I often wonders if these people suffer from the well-known "Catalan Small Penis Syndrome" (Are we allowed to say "penis"?)
WIKIPEDIA IS NOT A PRO-CATALAN POLITICAL PAMPHLET Maurice27 00:09, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Move to Baleares?
Isn't "Baleares" a far better title than Balearic Islands? --escondites 17:40, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
