Talk:Entropia Universe
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[edit] Why
Why does this article needs to be cleaned up to conform to a higher standard of quality ? --85.186.135.114 04:04, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
(note: Please sign your comments with "--~~~~" (without the quotes). Thanks.)
(use progressing colons ":" if you want to indent your message to make threads easier to read.)
[edit] 220 countries ??
What ?? They claim to have users from 220 countries ? The thing is that only 195 countries EXIST on the world so how are they having users from 220 countries ?
- As far as I am aware there are 195 OLYMPIC countries and at least 230 countries in total. Nightwolf 08:16, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Project Entropia seems to work in a way very similar to online gambling. 'Mindark' (the company) questionable ethics?
Wow. The buyer could make a killing by converting virtual profits from this into real money. But couldn't the devolpers just use inflation of goods and resources to make the purchase worthless? --66.177.33.232 (Talk), 22:40, 8 January 2005 (UTC)
- As an experienced player I will say that the company does not hold many business scruples. This game is driven by the same power as that which keeps the casinos intact, there is always a chance, no matter how small to hit it big suddenly. --68.4.223.196 (Talk), 02:07, 8 April 2005 (UTC)
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- Project Entropia is indeed like gambling... when you mine, hunt, or craft items there is a large chance you will get poor returns and a small chance to get a very large return (like a jackpot). This said, it is a very fun and addicting game to play. --141.158.229.166 (Talk), 20:36, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
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- One thing you have to remember is all the real money is all in the game company's pockets, if they gave out more than they earned they would not be profitable.
- Unfortunately this means tactics like trying to delude users that it's easy to get money -from- the system rather than lose it. --86.132.35.147 21:48, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
- One thing you have to remember is all the real money is all in the game company's pockets, if they gave out more than they earned they would not be profitable.
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New all time high sell : 1.000.000 PEDs for the new space resort. Collect site news, forum threads and slashdot article...
That means a powerful economical expansion and room for more players.
http://www.project-entropia.com/news/Index.ajp
The ASTEROID SPACE RESORT was today, 24th of October 2005, bought by avatar "Jon NEVERDIE Jacobs" for a sum of 1,000,000 PED (100,000 US Dollar)!
The public auction offering the Space Resort started Friday 21st of October at a staring price of 1 PED, and with a buyout price of 1,000,000 PED. The response to the news of the Space Resort was immediate – just during the weekend eight parties approached MindArk expressing serious interest in purchasing it. Just three days after the launch, the buyout price was met by Jon NEVERDIE Jacobs, before the competition.
[edit] Cleaned up
I've cleaned this article up now, it seems mostly satisfactory but if a player could go over it and make sure it's up to date... --Kevin 20:31, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Thanks Kevin
Looks nice. Thanks. I'll remove the cleanup needed tag. --Usbserial 15:00, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] From the "In The News" section
'On 12 April 2005, actor/director "Jon NEVERDIE Jacobs" (aka: DJ Hound Dog, John London) erected a virtual memorial within the Project Entropia game for his wife, Tina Leiu (aka: Island Girl, Gamer Chick) who died from complications due to the flu. This memorial resides on an island within the virtual game environment and is regularly visited by game characters played by people from all around the world.'
Can someone clarify which parts of the above paragraph belong to the real world, and which belong to the "game world" of PE?
I can't fathom whether this John Neverdie Jacobs is a game character, and/or an actor/director in real life, and/or if his (real/fictional?) wife died in the game... gah, my head hurts! 217.155.20.163 00:55, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
- Well, the front page article in a recent Broward City Link was about the whole asteroid purchase, and NeverDie himself. From what I recall, he's a (somewhat unsuccessful) independent film-maker/actor, who had been seriously involved with Tina Leiu for quite some time. Eventually, she got unusually ill, and while confined to her hospital bed, she experienced a sort of freedom through playing online games, of which Project Entropia/EU was the chief mentioned. Online gaming was a favorite hobby of Jon, who shared in the gaming experience with her up until her death. Since then, he has become an influential member of the Entropia Community through the asteroid purchase and to his recent marriage to his new girlfriend, which supposed became the first wedding to be simultaneously performed in real life and in an online game (Entropia, obviously). His wedding was sincere, but also an obvious publicity stunt for Club Neverdie, where the online wedding occured.
- It should be noted that, according to the article in City Link, it's implied that the Tina Leiu memorial was done through the goodwill of the Entropia team, rather than through a memorial purchase by NeverDie.
- --72.148.136.13 23:37, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
Jon is a DJ/actor is real life. Tina was a singer/actress. Tina's death was real. The island and memorial are in-game. I do not know if both Jon and Tina are stage names (which is common in the industry). you can obtain some information on him at http://www.realityport.com
One more thing... the very first paragraph states that there are no "levels" within PE. This is not true. The game actually has an extensive and complex skill system. These skills have direct effect on your chance of success with in-game activities. an analogy would be to say that your avatar "learns" to be better. in my opinion, this negates the gambling/casino comparisions - for example, if I know to play one hand of roulette is the same as all other hands of roulette. --216.9.243.111 19:56, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] News Bit
I added a newsbit (below, indented) and it was removed by (apparently) a first-time user. Is this not something that should be noted, as it _was_ in the BBC International Web-feed yesterday?
- On 2 May 2006, it was announced that Project Entropia had launched a real-world cash card attached to the user's account within the game that would allow game players to use their online credit in the real world. As reported on the BBC newsfeed [1] users could sell items online and then go purchase a dinner for themself down the street with this cash card technology. In the same article it was stated that $165 million had "passed through the game" in 2005 and that this figure was expected to double in 2006.
Please let me know what y'all think. Bo-Lingua
[edit] Rewrite time
I was adding some clarifications to address others' concerns in the 'Cost to Play' section, when I realized I really want to rewrite about 75% of this article. Which deed I'll boldy do, tonite or tomorrow prolly. Which reminds me.. I haven't played PE since my HD crashed a month ago.. I bet my soc thinks I'm dead or something.. ps - Oh ugh, I thought that stuff sounded familiar; a lot of the more recent changes are lifted straight from MA's website. Surprise surprise. To whom it may apply: (ie, Marco, Jan, Jon, etc), please note that Wikipedia is a very, very, very, very smart community (present authorship excluded), and you simply aren't going to get away with injecting your expensive marketing jargon - like the annoying repetitions of "Real Cash Economy (RCE)". It's a "real cash economy" -- quotes included. And it's a game, regardless of what your legal dept. tries to tell you (and us) - a game with players. Get over it, ok? I do hope you won't become vandals by the terms of Wikipedia. I promise I'll be gentle -- I'm a sympathetic soul, after all. But this is not an ad forum, it's an encyclopedia. :) Eaglizard 04:36, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
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This user appears to contradict himself. Please improve the user or discuss the issue on his talk page. |
This is merely paranoid and irrelevant ranting by a user keen to put a negative slant on the article. The article should remain neutral, balanced and free from bias. - JR
Added a quick sentence detailing the commision charged for the currency exchanges. Also removed any Real Cash Economy (RCE) entries and replaced them with "real cash economy" as per the post above 86.142.52.116 12:02, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
Great someone reverted my edit stating that it was vandalism! :-( I might say that the alterations are not only mentioned here (see above post) but also are substanciated and mentioned again further in the article 84.9.77.64 18:22, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
Well, you are contradicting with yourself, maybe a new rewrite is in order, following on some of the other MMORPG articles and some official (scarse usually) information, along with heaps of inside information from the community that enjoys Entropia Universe in all aspects, and not just press trolls or dissapointed peeps. Thank you! --62.231.117.235 14:06, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
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- I never did rewrite this article the way I wanted to (I did try, tho). Funny how much a half-year hiatus from the net has changed the things I think are important. Eaglizard 04:37, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] EntropiaDirectory.com
Entropia Directory is a wiki based site set up to support player based business's in the Entropia Universe, and attempt to create a Complete Directory of everthing EU. We would love to get some more players with wiki knowledge into our webteam, drop by from time to time, its a massive task but we are progressing nicely!
We also do an article on the latest from each VU as the news comes to hand. VU sneak Preview We will also make sure our Snr Editors keep things up to date here. --EntropiaDirectory.com 06:19, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Add Corporate Site
I added the link to MA's corporate site www.mindark.com to the Official Links.
[edit] In the News + Making Headlines
Was that really necessary? --62.231.117.235 16:28, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Balance and bias in this article
It's annoying that I always find my additions to this page reverted or near reverted by an anonymous user claiming to be 'undoing vadalism / bad rap / something". It seems that any remotely negative information on this article gets targetted. It smells to me that they are either someone who works for MindArk or who has a vested interest in the game? Who are they and why do they keep doing it? AvanniaRayzor 10:53, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
- Why are you so keen to claim some kind of conspiracy theory and maintain irrelevant and unnecessary negative comments in this article? The article should remain neutral, balanced and free from bias. I wonder what your agenda is. - JR
- I have no agenda with regard to this Entropia Universe article except accuracy. Please feel free to list here in this talk section any well sourced relevant encyclopedic fact that should be in this article and is not. WAS 4.250 01:40, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
Pardon me for being so paranoid; but I guess that's just the way I am :-S I was looking more on the fact that the article had positive and negative things said about the game; it's just that a lot of negative additions (all in the history and whatnot) were editted out again by an annonymous user. I use wikipedia a lot more than I contribe to it (save for maybe a spelling error or two) so it seemed strange that they weren't using an account. My agenda is identical to your own :-) that is creating a decent article (without any promo lingo and with as fair a view as possible) :-) AvanniaRayzor 20:40, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
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- Frankly, I don't see _how_ Avannia's comment was POV; it was stating fact. I myself am part of the statistic! I registered for an account with EU, played with it for about a week and then dropped my account. I'm one of the 70% that's _not_ "in continuous use". I think that's fairly common for a "pay-ware" game, like ANY MMORPG, for people to sign up, then stop playing in very short order, with only avid gamers continuing beyond an initial period. I think it's a useful statistic, and frankly, _not_ having it seems to me more POV as it makes this an Advert for Entropia, which is _NOT_ something that Wikipedia espouses. I'm sure that if either of you bothered to compare the statistics with other games, you'd find very similar trends. Bo-Lingua 04:36, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
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- I saw that edit and its delete and I feel that its inclusion is not anti-EU; but on the other hand if its so typical then what makes it worthy of inclusion - we don't note that the Atlantic Ocean is wet. So I said "Please feel free to list here in this talk section any well sourced relevant encyclopedic fact that should be in this article and is not." That is still the right approach. Identify what is claimed to be missing and its sources. Then identify the pros and cons of including it. Then see if there is a meeting of unbiased minds on the items in dispute. I see no disputed sourced items listed here. WAS 4.250 07:07, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
- I am glad that those whom did not experience the game know so much about it and write stupid stuff about casinos and "the world is comming to an end" rants about EU. There are good parts and bad parts. Yes, there are addicts and there are casual players. Those that love the game, hate it and love to hate it. Why can't this article be a constructive one, unbiased and without discreet slants!? My respect to AvanniaRayzor and for the rest, register and edit as a user! And stop deleting whatever you feel like. Use the talk page first!
- --62.231.117.235 10:54, 22 August 2006 (UTC) - not following his own advice
[edit] Please create an account and edit from it
I second User:62.231.117.235's advice (and recommend him to take it himself...) Please everybody create an account and log in to discuss on this page. This applies especially to "JR", editing from 88.105.73.18 and related dynamic IPs. Each of these IPs has it's own talkpage. "RP", not being an account, does not have a talkpage. It's consequently pure luck if JR happens to catch sight of a message left on one of the IPs' pages, and this makes communication difficult/impossible. Although luckily, JR, since you have in fact edited from 88.105.73.18 since I left a warning against deleting comments on its page, I do believe you have seen that warning. Please abide by it. Besides being binding site policy, it's merely elementary courtesy towards other editors to leave their comments alone. (P.S: BoLingua, you mean "POV", not "NPOV"--NPOV, neutral point of view, is good.) Bishonen | talk 11:25, 22 August 2006 (UTC).
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- Eep! Thanks Bish--I fixed it. :) Bo-Lingua
Shall I edit that back in? AvanniaRayzor 23:44, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Relevant Encyclopedic Fact vs. POV
I have removed the comment on "commission" in the lead paragraph as the commission is taken by one's own individual bank and not by MindArk as implied, this type of detail also does not belong in the openning summary. I have also added the recent news of a high profile participant earning $100k USD in the last 8 months through Entropia Universe. I wonder how many of the "conspiracy theorists" posting here have any real actual experience of Entropia Universe or its community, and I'm still bemused by the fierce agenda to maintain irrelevant and unnecessary negative comments and statistics in this article.
Why are some users insisting on selecting a minority of negative statistics from the 7 page PDF file produced by the Bridge Group (http://www.shell.linux.se/dsk2293/other/Sv.pdf) to include in the article whilst ignoring all the other information and statistics contained within the article, which on the whole are positive?
Most of the dynamic IPs appearing in the edits are within the range of a major European ISP (used by literally millions of Europeans in the UK, France, Germany, Italy and Sweden) and it's wrong to assume that all these edits made by the same user (perhaps 3 or 4 different users).
Entropia Universe is also NOT a "MMORPG" nor a "game" by the very definition of its creators and user community. - 24 August 2006 - 88.105.72.254 (JR - RoHuGu)
- Actually it is refered to many times as a game on Mindark's website - in the openning paragraph no less - thus it'd be pretty safe to assume that it is a 'game'. Also - why is it not an MMORPG? It seems to check all of the 'tickboxes' so to say - and it is refered to in your recent news quote by ND as being an MMORPG - "very few people really believed a turnkey virtual business inside an MMORPG could do these kind of numbers". I think that might confuse some. The commision does deserve mentioning somewhere though, as to me it implies that the exchange gives the end user a corresponding ammount of money (that is US$1 = 10PED, whereas it is more on the US$1 = ~9.70PED); *and* with the information that it is a bank charge too (can you get a source for that?). AvanniaRayzor 20:41, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
- 88.105.72.254 says "Entropia Universe is also NOT a "MMORPG" nor a "game" by the very definition of its creators and user community." Other sites may use words in whatever way they wish. Wikipedia uses common words in accordance with their most commonly understood meaning and technical words with their techically correct meaning. Or at least we try to. Other sites don't get to dictate how we use words. Wikipedia does not itself redefine words, nor does it use the redefinitions of others. WAS 4.250 20:59, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
- The term Virtual Universe (or Virtual World) is an already well defined and well understood concept. The most well known example of a virtual world in popular fiction is, of course, The Matrix. Second Life is not usually refered to as a "game" either. The following is a quote from the "ENTROPIA UNIVERSE END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT (EULA)" which all participants must 'Accept' before they can log into the service : "2. Description: MindArk provides the Entropia Universe as a service, described as a virtual universe. The Entropia Universe is not a "game"." I believe the phrasing "MMORPG-style online virtual universe" used on the disambiguation page is sufficiently adequate. I agree that, perhaps, the "currency conversion" commission could be mentioned, although this doesn't change the fact that the value of 10PED = $1 USD, just as it doesn't with real world currency exchange. This fee also only applies to certain methods of depositing cash into the universe, namely by use of a credit card. - JR - RoHuGu, 00:24, 25 August 2006
- Any particular prefered location for currency charge? And I think saying something like "Game, but mindark prefer to call it a Virtual Universe" or sometihng like that sounds appropriate. AvanniaRayzor 08:31, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
- AvanniaRayzor, EU is not a game! It has no set objectives, no rules, no levels, no end state, no specific goals and it is impossible to ever "win". EU is completely open ended software (or a service), and is no more a "game" than E-bay, MySpace or an online chat room.
- Anyway - where abouts shall we put this currency exchange bit? AvanniaRayzor 00:42, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
- If I don't hear anything from you within the next couple of days, I'll edit the currency conversion bit in. AvanniaRayzor 12:19, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
- AvanniaRayzor, I don't see how minor details regarding the use of Credit Cards in online transactions is of any encyclopaedic relevance to this article, and I also question your motives for wanting to include such information on how certain banks handle these kinds of transactions. This article is about the Entropia Universe, and this is merely a minor detail which applies to one particular option for depositing cash into the system, among many other options. As WAS has already previously stated we don't note that the Atlantic Ocean is wet, nor is it necessary to add other obvious or irrelevant, off topic information to support your negative stance. This information is neither relevant nor worthy of inclusion. It's like adding information such as "if you play for a long period without a break and stare at the screen too long and hard it has been shown that you may become tired"...such information simply isn't encyclopaedic nor relevant to this particular article.
[edit] Delete player resource section?
I propose we remove the entire player resource section. Wikipedia is not a how-to guide, and it's clearly being used to advertize individual stores and forums and so on. -- SCZenz 23:28, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
- Entropia Universe is presented in the following form: MindArk supplies the servers, system, facilities and features; you the player have to find out how things work, wich ways are better, how to improve, gain advantage, lose less, have more fun or whatever.
- This being said, the only reliable information source on what to do and how to do it, is provided via community sites. Removing those links for anti-advertising purposes is not really an option. Those sites are indeed advertising, but only because they have to survive somehow, information is free, but not at zero cost. Frankly I don't think there are other sites except those listed in that section that provide further infomation about Entropia Universe, and not some PR babble... --Mrproper 17:48, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] News rumours
However, shortly following the end of the auction, famed avatar and owner of popular community website EntropiaForum.com, "Flerin Neomaven Flerinson" purchased the newly acquired Twin Peaks Shopping Mall from Onkel RobRoy Bob for an undisclosed sum.
Where can I find this piece of information: owner of popular community website EntropiaForum.com, "Flerin Neomaven Flerinson" ?
--62.231.117.235 16:40, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
- It might be a good idea for you to Visit Entropia Forum, this information can be found in the news section of the forum. Nightwolf 08:10, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] The fine line between stuff and fluff
Argh, wikipedia sucks me right back in, the very first time I look at an article. I love hate it. Anyways, I saw a comment on my user page in re: this 'un, and wound up editing it despite my firm intention not to. The first section I just clarified that certain things are only the claims of MA, and not actual fact (we need a cite to the Guinness Book itself, for instance, otherwise its' just MA's claim that they're in there -- see the cite). It was the last section, the 'headlines' sorta thing, that got my attention: still way too much fluff in there, so I linted it up some. Essentially, I don't think we need any fictional descriptions of the fictional land-masses, or the unremarkable (and unsurprising) statements by Jacobs that he wants to make money, etc. On the other hand, his statements about making money with the 'egg' are interesting, since its not exactly obvious that he will. The surprisingly high dollar amounts are inherently interesting. And so on. I think it reads much tighter now. I also think some MA corporate shill other editor is highly likely to come along and disagree, which is why I bothered to explain what I think should be perfectly obvious edits. I did leave in more than I actually wanted to, on the principle that EU is pretty cool, and people should get that impression from this article. It shouldn't be allowed to become a cheap marketing tool for MindArk, however. Hence, the afore-alluded-to 'fine line' Have fun with it! Eaglizard 05:49, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
- Time is money, the egg story is being prolonged. This allows MA to reward ND with more money than they wanted, in order to fulfill his expectations for the high purchase value. So, the story will end when MA finds a way to overpay for his hasty purchase. --Mrproper 17:51, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Is the "Virtual Universe" description just a fudge to comply with gaming laws?
Entropia Universe is described as a "virtual universe" rather than a MMORPG, and yet it has far more in common with World of Warcraft than with Second Life and its ilk.
Entropia and WoW share a vast number of common features such as killable/lootable monsters (which roam around a varied landscape and "spawn" in specific areas), PvP combat, weapons, armor, magic, potions, character skills, trades/crafts, a fantasy setting, and a backstory/plot. As far as I can tell, Second Life does not feature any of these elements (or, indeed, any "game" elements whatsoever). Entropia also gives the player far less opportunity to "shape" his/her character's appearance, and the appearance of the surrounding world, than does Second Life.
The Entropia product is so obviously a MMORPG that I have to wonder if MindArk are compelled to deny this for legal reasons. It strikes me that describing Entropia as a "game" could fall foul of anti-gambling laws in some jurisdictions. 217.34.39.123 11:40, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
- It is possible, but does it really matter? Nightwolf 07:05, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
