Talk:Evgeni Plushenko

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http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Evgeny_Plushenko&diff=prev&oldid=39923722 !!! before the final even had started ! /Grön 11:29, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 Plushenko's jumps 2 Spelling of Plushenko's name 3 Reverts? 4 ISU bio

[edit] Plushenko's jumps

Previous versions of this article have asserted that Plushenko has landed quadruple salchows in competition, and that he was the first skater to land quadruple lutzes and loops in practice.

As far as I have been able to determine, Plushenko never landed a quadruple salchow in any national or international competition. He usually just does quad toe loops. The only reference I can find to him even attempting a quad salchow was at a minor competition in Samara in 2004 [1].

While I personally witnessed Plushenko doing a clean quad lutz in practice at the 2003 World Championships, Michael Weiss was landing this jump in practice as far back as early 1997, and Elvis Stojko was also said to have been landing them around that time. It seems very unlikely to me that Plushenko could have been landing them before that since he was all of 14 years old at the time. In any case, we need specific evidence to back up this claim.

As far as quad loops go, Roman Serov was attempting them in competition in 2000 and 2001, so presumably he had already been landing them in practice by that point. Again, we need specific dates and evidence to give Plushenko priority. Dr.frog 21:36, 3 March 2006 (UTC).

It is the truth, instead of false data. These are data from the program about it of the channel Sports-Russia - this channel state, translation was before the Turin games. Also Plushenko spoke about it in interview - to the program of "Message" of state the channel of Russia after the championships of the Europe, before the world championships in Moscow 2005. He has told, that does this jump on trainings, it carefully training it and will try to land its and other new complex elements in the world championship in Moscow and by that will surprise its all other competitors and his fans. Other proofs at me are not present, as I cannot give media files with these interview. For protection I can tell, that if it in Samara he has landed in competition, logically simply to take and make it without any training and preparation could not do it. In figure skating all elements all over again are fulfilled in trainings and only then them try to do at competitions.--88.152.21.161 14:41, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Since we have a reliable report that Plushenko has landed a quad salchow in competition, we can take it as a given that he has also landed them in practice. There is no need to keep inserting ungrammatical statements that he has done so. It may be factually true, but it does not improve the article, so leave it alone, OK? Dr.frog 16:47, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spelling of Plushenko's name

WP:RUS says "When something has a conventional name in English, use that name instead of transliterating." I have to believe that Plushenko's "conventional name in English" is Evgeni rather than Yevgeniy:

• It is the spelling he uses on his official website. [2]
• It is the spelling he uses when competing internationally. [3]

Dr.frog 22:33, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi, there! This is not really what's meant by "conventional name". The passage you quoted applies for other cases: one should use "Alexander" instead of "Aleksandr", for example.

Overall, it is generally preferred to use a policy-compliant name, with the exception of cases that are long-established in English (with all due respect to Plushenko, he is hardly on the same fame-scale as Gorbachev or Khrushchev). As for the second point, Russian names are often transliterated using the French system (because the majority of international sports organizations primarily utilize French), and the spelling, of course, leaks to the English-language media. The first point of yours (official website) is harder to ignore—if the guy himself wants to be known under this screwed-up spelling, that's his right (I admit that I neglected to check his official website before making corrections); even then proper transliteration should be given in the lede at the very least.

Anyway, if the subject of Russian names/transliteration interests you to the point that you really care what spelling should be used, please consider joining discussion at WP:CYR—a proposal to revise and expand current WP:RUS policy. I do agree that Plushenko's name falls into the vast grey area between what's conventional, what's convenient, what's prescribed by Wikipedia's policies, and what's consistent with other practices. Meanwhile feel free to change the spelling to the official website version; the article should probably be moved, too.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) • (yo?); 23:07, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

FWIW, the official language of the International Skating Union is English, not French. You'll note that Plushenko's bio page there (linked above) is in English, as is the rest of the ISU web site [4]. Dr.frog 02:13, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I know that. I was simply making a point that there are quite a few sports organizations out there that use French, not English. My statement was not in regards to this particular case. Thanks anyway. Also, I moved the article to the corrected spelling. Feel free to let me know if there is anything else I can help with.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) • (yo?); 12:05, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reverts?

What's going on with the reverts? If you haven't before, could you please discuss this? Also, please leave edit summaries in English as most of us here cannot read Cyrillic. Thanks. --Fang Aili ^talk 14:25, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

It's a long-term vandal. See User:Roitr/sockpuppeter. Dr.frog 17:11, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Understood. --Fang Aili ^talk 17:15, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I have semi-protected the article. The revert war was getting out of hand.—Ëzhiki (Igel Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 17:42, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ISU bio

Looks like there is some info from Plushenko's ISU bio which is not in the article. I consider this source pretty reliable. I do not consider the other links [5], [mms://video.rfn.ru/rtr-sport/7118.asf] (cited by the Roitr sock in edit summaries) reliable. Even if some information could be added, that does not justify other changes (such as deleting the persondata), which Roitr has done repeatedly. I have blocked the Roitr socks and protected the article for the time being. --Fang Aili ^talk 18:42, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Please write me what changes of the person data have been erased by Roitr. I do not see such deleting. Also explain why you are not consent with a video file from the Russian state channel of TV [mms: // video.rfn.ru/rtr-sport/7118.asf] - in this reporting comments to the achievements were given by him. In it and on a site http://www.kingonice.com/news04-05-part2.htm it is told n 2004 also landed a quadruple salchow in competition in Samara, Russia. On ISU site it is written - Plushenko is one of few figure skaters to have landed quadruple loops and quadruple lutzes in practice. Also the absolute truth that he is one of the few male skaters to perform the Biellmann spin. Also you erase the information that music to programs which is skating by Plushenko has been especially arranged for him by violinist Edvin Marton and that he underwent groin surgery in Munich, Germany in spring 2005 - all this information also is absolutely exact. Because of all it I do not understand why you delete this information. I consider it should be in this clause necessarily! Consequently I ask you return to previous variant of this clause please. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.153.169.182 (talk • contribs).

I find it hard to believe that you are unable to look at simple diffs in the history to see your own actions. Frankly I am tired of dealing with you and do not wish to discuss this further. You are a sock and I don't have to play games with you. --Fang Aili ^talk 20:11, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

I am capable to see at simple difference in the history. All this information is written on official site ISU and it only expands the previous version. I do not ask to play with me games. Even that I a sock - in this dispute it is not important and not meaningful here. All my data are truthful and absolutely exact. That you do not accept them - me simply surprises. You are the administrator of Wikipedia and you should struggle for exact both full data and the facts. Personally I here struggle for the truth and the full information, instead of I play with you games. Your have all right to not talk to me, but I shall further continue to insist, that my additions should be returned in this clause. I not against updatings my changes, but I categorically against their entirely removal from this clause. I hope for understanding.--88.153.169.182 20:43, 3 August 2006 (UTC)