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Portal talk:Poland/Poland-related Wikipedia notice board/Archive 8 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Portal talk:Poland/Poland-related Wikipedia notice board/Archive 8

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Contents

[edit] Jan Dzierżon

I came across the Jan Dzierżon article on the talk pages of other users and attempted to copyedit and clean up the namespace. I also posited some questions and ideas on the talk page, but it seems my edits are frowned upon. I do not anticipate being able to copyedit the article further, so I have removed it from my watchlist. I mention the article here because there has been recent dispute with it, and others might be able to provide their expertise. Olessi 23:12, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Miodzio

Collection of archival Polish newspapers, online: [1] -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  01:00, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Horilka

Please consider the validity of the article horilka which is voted for deletion now. Although I voted "delete" basing on article content, I am aware that I am not an expert. Also there may be important information in Ukrainian, Polish or Russian langauge I cannot assess.

I am posting this message on all slavic notice boards, because now the voting is participated mostly by amateurs far from horilka. Mukadderat 16:51, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Cios w Plecy Dziennik Chicagoski 19 Wrzesien 1939.jpg

This image was recently deleted; it seems that the main concern was that we cannot use it under fair use because 'it is not important to the article'. See deletion debate and reply of the user who deleted it when I asked him for more explanation. I believe this is a very useful image - what do you think?-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  19:05, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Aleksander Kwaśniewski

I wanted to ask for help. An anon ip has introduced a controversy section at Aleksander Kwaśniewski, and has provided sources for their statements. In checking them, I realized that I'm having a hard time determining if the sites are reliable sources...me not being familiar enough with Polish media. I'd appreciate if a few people could give me a quick read on whether these sites are indeed WP:RS quality or are more blogsnews and such. The controversy section should be viewable in the history prior to my revert with the edit summary about "thanks for the sources..." here.

Thanks very much for any help you can give. Syrthiss 21:12, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

...done. Still, the inserted text needs some cleanup, language neutralizing, copyedit etc. --Beaumont (@) 18:39, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


[edit] List of Polish Jews

A user, User:Mibelz has lately been behaving very uncivil, randomly forcing Jewish identities on several Polish figures (including Adam Mickiewicz among others), and calling people who oppose his citation-less and controversial edits "anti-Semitists." He has then recently added pratically every American politician with a Jewish ancestor to the list. The page is now semi-protected, so I have no power without going ahead and making a username, but that would just be WP:POINT on my part and I have too much of an ego to have go through that. Can somebody please get rid of these ridiculous entries? 141.213.211.83 23:17, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Dear anon, we will take a look at the situation. In the meantime, please consider registering.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  19:09, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Warszawa

Is it an accident and lack of oversight that the articles: Jan Olszewski, Conservative People's Party (Poland) and Catholic-National Movement use Warszawa refering to the Polish capital instead of Warsaw? It seems to me a violation of WP:NC but I don't care enough to go and edit these articles. So I am just bringing up the issue here for someone to take a look. --Irpen 01:42, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing these out, I fixed them. If you find any more, please list them here, or better yet fix them yourself. Balcer 04:10, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scandinavian connections to Mieszko I and Connection between Poles and Vandals

Hi there, any idea what happened to those? I had them on my watchlist and I can't rememeber any VfD (though i could miss them). Szopen 09:06, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

The first didn't exist (so, probably a typo in the title) and the second was AfD'd and deleted. Миша13 11:16, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
Ah, I saw VfD for both. It's a shame I missed them. It's also a shame that Piotrus, who nominated them, had not contacted me. I would happily provided the references, as both articles were based on literature (though I don't know what happened to later versions). I hadn't provided the references, since at the time when I wrote them, almost no article contained any refs. Szopen 13:34, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
One more thing: Piotrus, please accept my apologisement. I am under a lot of stress recently and sometimes I choose my words unwisely. "Shame that Piotrus etc etc" was one of those words. Szopen 08:52, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

PS: (Bulk of first one was based on "Studia nad Slowianszczyzna zachodnia" G. Labuda, second on Strzelczyk book on Vandals which title I cannot remember right now. Certainly nothing I wrote in wikipedia is original research. Szopen 13:36, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

It's my understanding that admins can restore deleted pages. Appleseed (Talk) 13:57, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
I had also advertised both VfDs (or as they are now known, AfDs) on this noticeboard (it pays to check it more often). But yes, there is always Wikipedia:Request for undeletion. I can also paste the contents of the deleted articles onto your (sub)userpage if you want to present an updated versions before undeletion discussion.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  15:25, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
Thank you Piotrus. I guess the second option would be better. Because of private problems I will be unable to do anything untill January. Of course I mean the versions before some editor started to put some references to "Daglingers" thingie Szopen 08:46, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Important notice

Dear editors, you may have noticed that all of today's contributions to the fundraiser will be matched. So if you were planning on supporting the object of our addiction, today is a good day to do it! Happy editing, Appleseed (Talk) 20:48, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Good call!-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  00:08, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Peer_review#Armia_Krajowa

Any comments how to improve the Armia Krajowa article will be appreciated (see also it's talk for some ongoing discusions), there are currently some cite needed tags and an NPOV one.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  00:08, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Talk:Polish–Muscovite War (1605–1618)

Renaming debate - proposed name include 'Polish-Russian War (1605-1618)]], ['Polish intervention in Russia', 'Polish-Lithuanian intervention in Time of Trouble', and others. Comments appreciated.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  19:07, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Marie Curie, Polish and French nationality

Czy możemy coś z tym zrobić, moi drodzy? To jest skrajna głupota, twierdzić (ba! pisać!), że Skłodowska była polsko-francuska, że się tak wyrażę. Racja, miała z Francją wiele wspólnego, może nawet więcej, niż z Polską. JEDNAK NIEZAPRZECZALNIE była POLKĄ! Nie możemy się zgodzić, żeby Wiki osiągnęła poziom tych francuskich rankingów "Największych", gdzie Skłodowska jest na czele. ;) Tutaj nie chodzi o moją fobię, czy manię wielkości narodu polskiego i jego wybitnej przedstawicielki, ani o frankofobię, czy coś w tym stylu. Pozdrawiam i Merry Christmas :) Kowalmistrz 20:36, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Technical note: this public forums prefers English. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  21:10, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
As far as I can see, the lead seems to be fair, no particular action is needed. --Beaumont (@) 22:46, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I am sorry, maybe I should translate my edition? Is anoyne who don't understand that text? I think we must do something about the Infobox in the article about Curie! I understand statement that Curie was Polish-French scientist, but she was only Polish, if we talk about her nationality! Kowalmistrz 23:10, 22 December 2006 (UTC) Merry Christmas for all Polish-Wikipedians! Smacznego karpia (biedne rybki!) i kuti :] Kowalmistrz 23:10, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Most editors who frequent this board can't read Polish. Appleseed (Talk) 23:18, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Kowalmistrz. To the extent that nationality means anything, Maria Skłodowska-Curie was a Pole who spent most of her adult life living and working in France. Still, it would be interesting to know whether as an adult she ever defined herself in terms of nationality.
Happy holidays, everybody! logologist|Talk 00:09, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
What about becoming a naturalized French? As suggested, I looked into nationality article for the meaning of the word. It seems to confirm my feelings. I could elaborate it, but if we shall continue this discussion, maybe Talk:Marie Curie is a better place? And - at least for me - after the Christmas is a better time :-) Best, --Beaumont (@) 09:38, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Personally, I find Polish-French an acceptable compromise, although logologist raises a very valid point - what did she thought of her own nationality? Per Beaumont, talk of that page would be a better place to discuss it - I see no reason we should exclude our French friends (let's not create the impression that we are Polish cabal trying to take over yet another article, there have been too many accusations of that already). -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  13:34, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bolesław Prus' jubilee portrait

The Warsaw Public Library has Bolesław Prus' jubilee portrait, painted by Antoni Kamieński in 1897, in celebration of Prus' 50th birthday and 25 years in journalism. It's a very attractive likeness that reflects his personality, and would be useful for Wikipedia, which doesn't seem to have it. Could someone take a full-length photograph of it, and another of just the head and shoulders, and place them in the Commons? logologist|Talk 11:13, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, if User:Halibutt was not on wikibreak, he would be the best candidate. Barring that, who else is from Warsaw? Hmmm, I think we should contact the pl wiki with a request...-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  13:38, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
It's Christmas/Hanukkah time and I won't be available until after January 3rd. If you won't be able to find anyone to do the job, just remind me of it. //Halibutt 15:34, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Iconography shortage

Most articles on Polish and Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth politicians, generals, entrepreneurs, writers, artists, historians, mathematicians, scientists, philosophers, etc., have no photograph or portrait of their subject. Perhaps some of our photography-capable colleagues could take a digital camera along on visits to museums and libraries and snap targets of opportunity? (The same would hold for historical monuments, cityscapes and the like.)

We owe a debt of gratitude to colleagues who have done this in the past, preventing the situation from being even worse than it is. logologist|Talk 01:39, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Poland joins Wikipedia:Wikipedia 1.0

Following instructions...

Wikipedia:WikiProject Poland redirect created.

Created Category:Poland-related articles by quality

Created Category:Poland-related articles by importance

Template:WikiProject Poland created.

Article tagging: started

You can help by tagging articles with:

 
{{WikiProject Poland
|class  =  choices are: Stub, Start, B, GA, A, FA, NA (not applicable/non-article)
|importance = choices are: Top, High, Mid, Low, NA
}}

Read more about the project at Wikipedia:WikiProject Poland/Assessment

Notes: if a project is tagged with MILHIST banner, add |Polish-task-force= yes

Brought to you by: -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 14:01, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wesołych Świąt!

Appleseed wishes you a Merry Christmas!
Appleseed wishes you a Merry Christmas!
I wish you all a Merry Christmas and a happy New Year
I wish you all a Merry Christmas and a happy New Year

Let's break an opłatek - sign here if you read this forum and like the holidays :) -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 17:42, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Like it very much. :} - Darwinek 21:09, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
Wesołych Świąt! :-) Appleseed (Talk) 00:24, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Wesołych Świąt! :-) --Beaumont (@) 22:57, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Hate holidays /me and my gf will not be seing each other for 3 days in a row/, but what the heck, all the best to you :) //Halibutt 15:35, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
Wesołych Świąt! :) Jacek Kendysz 16:08, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Translation

Hello,

there is a new page for the translation from polish into english.

This page is yours, please help to improve it.

If you have any question, leave a message on Wikipedia talk:Translation

Jmfayard 11:50, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dubious Entries on List of Polish Jews

Despite efforts to find sources for several flagged personalities on List of Polish Jews to support they are Polish and Jewish, no references could be found as of yet. Perhaps there are references in the Polish language, unaccessible to the normal reference-hunter. If so, the name can be re-added with said referece. However, it was made very clear and direct that if no references could be found by the coming of the new year the names would be removed per WP:V etc. This has since been done on List of Polish Jews and reverted on the basis of "POV edit" - whatever that means. Can it please be made clear that unless references exist to show that these personalities are Polish and Jewish, they cannot remain on the list with a [citation needed] flag indefinitely? 141.213.67.46 19:23, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Something to consider

Or a slightly delayed 'New Year' thought. In the past, some of us have troubles understanding our Lithuanian collegues; one of the issues was the matter of Polonization/Lithuanization of names (with Laurynas Gucevičius being likely the most (in)famous case). I believe I have discovered a reason for some of the troubles we had; as expected, it is not because of one side bad faith but rather, a cultural misundertanding. It is common in Polish language to refer to people, especially modern, with little 'polonization' of their names; in some other cases, a first name may be polonized, but the surname will be left in orginal, and most of the other changes come from replacing letters not used in Polish language with Polish equivalents (x->ks, v->w). This is, however, not the case in Lithuanian language, which from what I can tell tries to 'naturalize' all foreign sounds. Hence: pl:George W. Bush but lt:Džordžas V. Bušas, pl:Bill Clinton but lt:Viljamas Klintonas, pl:Lionel Jospin but lt:Lionelis Žospenas, pl:Pittsburgh but lt:Pitsburgas, pl:Connecticut but lt:Konektikutas, lt:Mančesteris, lt:Frankfurtas, lt:Josifas Stalinas, lt:Franklinas Ruzveltas, lt:Fidelis Kastro, lt:Izaokas Niutonas (note also pl:Valdas Adamkus and lt:Valdas Adamkus or pl:Algirdas Brazauskas and lt:Algirdas Brazauskas). Thus please remember that for our Lithuanian collegues seeing a non-Lithuanian name is twice as suprising as for us seeing Copernicus instead of Kopernik or Warsaw instead of Warszawa; please be kind when dealing with those issues, and try to avoid discussions of '-ization' but rather, stick to relevant WP policies (WP:UE being the most useful, and other WP:NC staying close behind).-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 23:49, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you Piotrus, well put. For anyone not totally understanding the concept, consider Jerzy Waszyngton, in lieu of George Washington. Then again also consider that there are Lithuanian names which are not lithuanizations, like Jogaila, or polonizations of that name like Jagiełło. Or the lithuanization of Władysław Jagiełło II, which would be Vladislovas Jogaila II. Thought I'd help out. Dr. Dan 03:16, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Tiny nitpick, Dr.Dan: I think you meant pl:George Washington, known in Lithuania as lt:Džordžas Vašingtonas... BTW, can you tell me why Winston Churchill is at lt:Winston Churchill and not lt:Vinstonas Čerčilis? It kind of breaks the pattern...-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 03:30, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Neither tiny nor a nitpick, P.P. However, I will grant you that for some reason (hopefully not related to some shame of the beautiful Polish language), I have noticed that Jerzy Waszington is being slowly relegated to the trash bin. Do check out the history of the Polish article and other aspects of Polish WP and you'll see this unfortunate evolution concerning Washington and Chicago, etc. I assume your informing our English speaking readers of the Lithuanian linguistic formulation of non-Lithuanian names has some point other than to waste their time. If that's the case, let's forget Jerzy Waszington for George Washington, for now, and Jerzy Matulewicz for Jurgis Matulaitis, and even Wit Stwosz for Veit Stoss. There's a "plethora" of other examples of Polonizations of non-Polish names that we could debate. And maybe even the other way around, I noticed your involved in the current Dzierzon matter. As for Churchill, I could care less what the Lithuanians call him on their WP entry. Much more concerned with how you call Elzbieta Rakuszanka on English WP. Cześć! Dr. Dan 20:11, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
One day, Dr. Dan, you will master the skill of understanding what others wrote and writing yourself so others can understand you. May I suggest you come back to us at that time?-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 21:22, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Sorry if I upset you. Sorry that my linguistic skills are not up to your satifaction. And most of all, sorry that my help concerning your "lecture" on the Lithuanian language was also not appreciated. Dr. Dan 02:57, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Talk:Armia Krajowa

Seems like there is a new argument about 'war crimes of Armia Krajowa' and despite the recent subarticle created the Lithuanian subsection is growing again. It's quite interesting, and thanks to some similar past discussions we have managed to make this article a GA-level one, but more voices are always welcome, as we seem to be unable to reach consensus on some issues.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 16:32, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Infobox Poland (English version) adapt to German version

Hello, I just changed the Template:Infobox City Poland

  • 1) I adapted the infobox to the German infobox for Polish cities ({{Infobox (Polen))
  • 2) I am unfortunately not able making a same design (with titles) can someone please do it?
  • 3) Some parts are still missing, like No. of villages, etc. Please find below the German code.
  • 4) if you like you can compare the design of the Info Boxes please go to the English and German article of "Opatowek"

Best regards Christoph

Template:Infobox (Polen)

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fujicolor (talk • contribs) 19:31, 14 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Art

If you're working on articles about Polish art or artists, take a look at this site. It has a lot of high quality images to make your articles pretty. Appleseed (Talk) 22:41, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kraków grosz or Krakau groschen?

Or some other possibilites, RM at Talk:Kraków_grosh#Requested_move_to_Krak.C3.B3w_grosz_or_Cracow_grosz. With the background argument that Kraków should be moved to Cracow (or as some prefer, Krakau :>).-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 05:20, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reflexive verb: a brief translation needed

Hi all, I choose Polish as an example language in reflexive verb article, but it needs some proofreading of Polish examples (online dictionaries don't help much for present-tense suffixes :-D). Thanks in advance. Duja► 21:44, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

OK, done. Jacek Kendysz 00:56, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Henryk Górecki

Henryk Górecki could use an audio sample and/or IPA pronunciation. Olessi 22:03, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Allied intervention in the Russian Civil War

We should write something about the misconception and soviet era propaganda that the Polish-Soviet War was a part of that conflict. And something about the irony of the situation that Piłsudski actually wanted the Communists to win. Mieciu K 16:55, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. Since Polish-Soviet War is a pretty well referenced FA, perhaps there is material in the article that can be simply copied? Btw, did you know there indeed was a Polish intervention in the RCW? See 4th Rifle Division (Poland) and 5th Rifle Division (Poland). Sure, it was limited, and hardly a government initative, but how history meanders is really interesting...-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 18:15, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Interesting, and strange, where they simply trying to save their lives or were they fighting for a greater cause? That would explain the 12,000 Poles figure I found in the Allied intervention in the Russian Civil War article. Mieciu K 18:43, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
From what I read their cause was Poland; in the east, they only wanted to survive (had to follow the chain of command, mostly Entente forces from the 'allied intervention'... or Whites), later when on grounds they considered Polish they fought for themselves, I think.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 00:15, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Order of Saint Stanislaus

Can someone take a look at the following articles:

I'm not sure if they need to be merged or renamed. All I know is that looking at them makes my head hurt. Appleseed (Talk) 18:12, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Ack! That's a rare mess :) Merge all and salt the earth after the last four redirects (delete).-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 21:13, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Move and mediation request

I have moved this from new articles annoucements. Please help those two editors find a common ground.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 21:11, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Poeticbent has unilaterally changed the article's title from "St. Florian's Gate" to the incorrect "Florian Gate," after first vandalizing the article's discussion page, removing the 3 votes against the move, vs. his sole one vote. Please see my note, "Poeticbent's vandalism," on the discussion page of "Florian Gate." logologist|Talk 02:33, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Bomb (play)

I am at loss about the notability of this article about a polish play. A notability tag was removed without comment. Is Maciej Kowalewski notable? Could someone look at it? Thanks -- Chris 73 | Talk 19:43, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I prodded it, let's see what happens.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 17:15, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Since a user is removing prod without any responce, I give you the Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Bomb (play).-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 20:30, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks -- Chris 73 | Talk 20:36, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vanity cruft?

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Boguslawa Cimoszko.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 04:11, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Third Livonian War

Right now the redirect Third Livonian War is pointing at Polish-Swedish wars. What should it redirect to? Appleseed (Talk) 04:33, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Polish–Swedish War (1600–1629). Which is another disambig, after the article I wrote was split of into subarticles some time ago, a decision I am not that happy about but...-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 06:42, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jarosław Kaczyński article

Dev920 keep adding Jarosław Kaczyński article to the Category:LGBT people from Poland. Jogers (talk) 12:04, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

My first reaction is LOL. Now, more seriously, the refs that are used to back up this rather amusing claim are somewhat dubious: gaycitynews.com, www.pinknews.co.uk and www.thegully.com - all three seem like a minor new sites with an evident POV. Per WP:BLP I'd suggest that unless such claims can be verified by more reliable sources, they are discarded based on not being reliable (failing to satisfy WP:RS). In any case, please comment in the discussion at article's talk.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 21:22, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Przemsyl?

Among requested articles about Poland is "Przemsyl" (no details given). I was going to remove it as a typo for Przemyśl but the word has disturbingly high number of ghits on .pl. Could someone take a look and remove it if is really just a typo? Pavel Vozenilek 19:34, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Well it also could refer to:

  • Przemysł I - Duke of Greater Poland
  • Przemysł II - king of Poland, son of Przemysł I
  • Przemysł Inowrocławski - Duke of Inowrocław
"Przemysl" it self is a "typo"/version without diacritics, but what was on authors mind... who knows Radomil talk 20:19, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
Pl wiki has no article on 'Przemsyl' and I'd agree with Radomil that it's a poor typo.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 21:15, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject

Hello fellow neighbours. :) Would you be interested in supporting/participating in the Wikipedia:WikiProject Czech Republic? I think it is much needed as there is no platform on EN Wiki concentrating on Czech articles. You can vote or comment here: [2]. Have a nice day. :) - Darwinek 10:55, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I suggested the creation of Czech noticeboard some time ago. I strongly support users from that country (and possibly from Slovakia as well) working together. Unfortunatly my knowledge of that region is too limited to be able to offer any significant content help.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 01:23, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Interesting AfD

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Piotr Blass (third nomination). And slightly less interesting: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Boguslawa Cimoszko.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 01:21, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New articles bot - help add/fix rules

See Portal_talk:Poland/New_article_announcements#User:AlexNewArtBot_-_New_Article_Bot. Rules: User:AlexNewArtBot/Poland. First run results: User:AlexNewArtBot/PolandLog. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 20:05, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Help, please

Hello. Can someone with better English than mine please help and translate lyrics in Płyniesz Olzo po dolinie? It will be very much appreciated. I can buy you a Czech beer. :) - Darwinek 22:25, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Done, where is my Czech beer? greetings Tymek 17:41, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Father of the Nation

The unreferenced article Father of the Nation lists Piłsudski for Poland. Is this accurate? Appleseed (Talk) 17:35, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Obviously, opinions on Pilsudski differ, but if there is a personality who can be regarded as Father of the modern Polish Nation, I do not see anybody else but him. I think most of my fellow countrymen will agree Tymek 17:44, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree, but for balance with regards to the length of Polish history, I have added Mieszko I who was the founder of the historical Polish state. Deuar 17:47, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
There was actually a dispute about this but the person adding the category to Piłsudski article declined to take part in the discussion. I am neutral on this issue - we need references.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 17:53, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Well mayby Piłsudski is considered to be father of Polish nation in former Kongresówka or Galicja, bu in ex-Prussian Partition he is surely not. Here he wasn't (and still isn't) popular person. Radomil talk 18:47, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Nowadays we call it Greater Poland. :-) Why isn't he liked there? Appleseed (Talk) 19:03, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Not only in Grater Poland, also in Eastern Pommerania and Silesia. Here as fathers of independence are known persons like Dmowski (for his work during wwI, and vision of national state), Haller, Paderwski, Korfanty, Taczak, Dowbór-Muśnicki and so on. Piłsudski is seen as person that doesn't care of Kresy Zachodnie. In our POV he was only interested in conquering "wild fields" of Lithuania, Belarus and Ukraine instead fighting for Silesia or Gdańsk. He is also disliked for his May Coup d'Etat. In Western Poland much more preferable was democracy, and apolitical army - model of state promoted by Haller and Dowbór-Muśnicki. Radomil talk 19:28, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
I concur. While personally I tend to have "Galician-like views" on him, I remeber some of these controversies. Generally, Endecja, one of major political forces then, didn't like him very much, so to speak. I do not think the label "Father of the nation" applies. The definition of the latter implies some kind of national consensus around the man in question (and it was not really the case, as the opposition was quite strong). Maybe Casimir the Great is a better candidate?--Beaumont (@) 21:17, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Other candidates could be: Bolesław Chrobry, Kazimierz Odnowiciel, Przemysł II (I know, not well know, probably this eliminates him from list), Władysław Łokietek and Tadeusz Kościuszko Radomil talk 22:04, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I just want to emphasize - I wrote that Pilsudski may be considered the father of MODERN Polish Nation. As far as times before II Polish Republic, there are several important personalities worthy mentioning Tymek 23:32, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

II RP had many fathers, Piłsudski IMHO is too controversial to be the one in this list. Beter to leave him... On the other hand Kościuszko could be good candidate for father of Modern Polish nation, he started, during insurection, to build nation of all citizens, not only nobles. Radomil talk 23:36, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Anyway, do we have to stick to one person? The Germans have a whole bunch of them as Fathers of the Nation. Why don't we chose say 5 of them? Tymek 23:44, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm not consider to this... Look at Iran, many controversial notable figures in very long hitory, like Khomeini, but only Cyrus as father of nation. Radomil talk 23:55, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

So, if we are supposed to choose only one, I will cast my vote on Mieszko I Tymek 00:22, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Me too Radomil talk 00:26, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Me too --Beaumont (@) 10:49, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Mieszko has a very distinct advantage − uncontroversial ;-) Deuar 12:54, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
I would vote for him too, but we need references. Appleseed (Talk) 16:41, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Congress of Gniezno

Are there any paintings representing the Congress of Gniezno? I googled for images in English and Polish (zjazd gnieznienski) but found nothing. Appleseed (Talk) 16:20, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Nothing comes to mind, nor were my search useful. A trip to Gniezno with a camera may be in order, and a local guide would be invaluable. I'd bet there are some semi-forgotten paintings, sculptures and similar objects, for example at Gniezno Cathedral.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 22:26, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for looking into this. I'm surprised at the dearth of artwork related to this event, especially since the article declares it "one of the more important events in Polish history". Appleseed (Talk) 23:13, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Indeed.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 00:38, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
So... would anyone like to volunteer to take some photos in Gniezno? Appleseed (Talk) 03:09, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] History of Czechoslovakia

Can someone find a citation for this (mine) claim? It would be good if someone would write a short article about the Polish territorial acquisition (1938) to get rid of the misconception that the aquisition of the dispiuted teritories was done "together" with the III Reich. Mieciu K 11:11, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

There is an article on Border conflicts between Poland and Czechoslovakia; unfortunatly it's unreferenced.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 14:47, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
I think that article needs to be renamed. How about Polish-Czechoslovak border conflicts? Appleseed (Talk) 15:21, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Done. And while we're on the subject of renaming, perhaps someone can think of a better title for The first game: December 18, 1921. Hungary - Poland 1-0. Appleseed (Talk) 15:34, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Talking to yourself, Apple? :) -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 17:14, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
qp10qp said that replying to oneself is the first sign of madness. Should I be concerned? :-) I only wish I could reply in the affirmative to my Congress of Gniezno question. Appleseed (Talk) 18:14, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
If you want to rename The first game: December 18, 1921. Hungary - Poland 1-0, you can do it, but I do not know what better title you can come up with. Tymek 20:06, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
How about Poland v Hungary (1921)? Appleseed (Talk) 20:15, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Well, then it would suggest that it was one of many friendlies. We have to emphasize this was the very first international of Poland. Otherwise there will always be someone wanting to delete it, just like Poland v Brazil (1938) Check out discussion on this page, I had a lot of problems with some users Tymek 20:44, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
The significance of the game should be emphasized in the body of the article, not the title. Appleseed (Talk) 20:50, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
As a person from Zaolzie, I can say following. Argument of Polish-German cooperation in 1938 is bulshit. This argument was spread by Czech propaganda before the war and during the Communist era until 1989. Often "nicely" said as "fascist Beck's Poland" etc. Fact is that Poland didn't give a fock about Germany, they just took their chance - Munich Agreement. In Polish view Zaolzie should have been Polish already in 1920. - Darwinek 17:41, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
I think everyone who reads this board knows this. However, it's important to be on the lookout for articles that spread such old propaganda and misinformation. Not too long ago we saw WWII myths presented as fact (see the history of the "Tuchola Forest myth" redirect). Appleseed (Talk) 18:14, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Richard Watts in his book "Bitter Glory" accurately described all ins and outs of Polish-Czech conflict for Zaolzie in 1920s and 1930s. Should I put down some quotes from this book? Tymek 20:06, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
I would very much apreciate that. Mieciu K 20:13, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
As soon as I have some time, I'll do it Tymek 20:44, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
OK, I checked the "Bitter Glory" book. He gives a very interesting insight about ways in which the Czechs gained control over Zaolzie and their tricks (they acted in a very dirty way). But before I add it - a question about copyrights? Anybody would answer? I do not want to waste my time, cause there's a lot of stuff on it. Tymek 22:43, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Copyright? The Polish Copyright Law Act of February 4, 1994 should answer some specific questions, in general if you are copying text as a means of scientific studies and as long as you reference it properly, keep the quotes at reasonable lenght nobody should complain. Mieciu K 15:52, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Yep. Quotes are always OK. Publishing long parts (~chapter+) is usually not.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 16:48, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jagiełło/Jogaila odyssey cnt.

See Talk:Jogaila for newest RM and User:Angusmclellan/Jogaila mediation for related mediation.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 01:39, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Please note that the mediation request is now at Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Jogaila. Angus McLellan (Talk) 10:09, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

And there is also the Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Jogaila for a different take.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 18:44, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Polish minorities

We could use a naming convention to unify the articles about Polonias who currently use two naming conventions: Polish-somethings and Polish minority in...

vs

I'd suggest renaming all articles from the first group to 'Polish minority in...' variant, or consider renaming all of them to Polish Wikipedia style 'Polonia in...'. Also, personally I think that the term Polish-something - like Polish American - can and is also used to people of American descent living in Poland, or at least is close enough to be confusing. PS. There are some interesting articles missing about Polish minorities numbering 100 000+ (according to pl:Polonia: Polish minority in Argentina (450 000), Polish minority in France (1 050 000), Polish minority in Italy (100 000), Polish minority in Russia (300 000), Polish minority in Ukraine (900 000), Polish minority in Belarus (900 000), Polish minority in Kazakhstan (100 000)...-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 18:32, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, as for the RC, the name I used here is used officially by both sides. Also, if you would call the Pole from the RC "Polish-Czech" (polski Czech) you would be probably punched in the face by him :). I support the idea to rename it to "Polish minority in ...". - Darwinek 18:43, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Deutschland

Our German "friend" is back. Check out his latest wise move: [3] . - Darwinek 10:34, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Infobox

There is currently a project designed to change ugly and monumental infobox for Polish cities. See talk page here. Your ideas are welcomed. - Darwinek 18:15, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hussars

I would like to direct the attention of this notice board to the Hussar article. As I have mentioned several times in its talk page, the article is in a state of disarray, due to the fact that it describes two vastly different formations, with different equipment and tactics - which have the misfortune of sharing the same name in English. I propose to split the article, perhaps with cross references. However, I have both little experience in Wikipedia and little knowledge (not to mention little time) to conduct this correctly. Anybody up for this?

PS. Thanks for the notice, Appleseed :). Miki 19:53, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree tbat this page needs attention, and the cavalry and modern hussars should be split. Also, I believe we should work on the Polish Hussars which I believe presents a notable enough distinct formation to deserve its own article.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 21:12, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Montelupich prison

Can you help me with this article? --Umedard Talk 21:41, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

For starters, is pl:Dom Włoski w Krakowie the same as Montelupich prison?-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 22:08, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] T-26 FAC

This article is currently a featured article candidate (Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/T-26), could someone write a (sourced) paragraph evaluating the use of these tanks during the Polish defensive war (1939), the author somehow belives that soviet campaign was a failure(?) and T-26 tanks were in part somehow responsible for that. Mieciu K 17:50, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up, I raised those issues in the FAC.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 02:28, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Koziegłowy

I've moved town Koziegłowy to Koziegłowy (Silesian Voivodeship). It is only town with that name, but it has only 2,493 inhabitants. Village with that name, in Greater Poland (the biggest village in Poland) has 10,755 inhabitants, so its ca. 4 times biger. Radomil talk 20:39, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Good move, I had no idea about the relative significance of these places. Balcer 20:43, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Voivodeships 1921-1939

I am working on Polish Voivodeships in the interwar period,

Should anybody have some more info about them, share it

Tymek 18:22, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Check out Category:Polish_historical_voivodeships_(1921–1939).

To keep things manageable, how about we create Łódź Voivodeship (1921-1939) and Lublin Voivodeship (1921-1939), so that information about historic voivodeships is kept separate from information about present day Łódź Voivodeship and Lublin Voivodeship ? Balcer 18:33, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Good idea, I have already put down some info on Lodz Voivodeship 1921-1939

Anyway, as soon as I started, user LUCPOL deleted my works on Autonomous Silesian Voivodeship, removing some important info and adding some curious facts e.g. claiming that Silesian Language was one of official languages back then (never heard of it). Tymek 18:48, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Not completely. See: [4] and diff. LUCPOL 19:54, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Dumb question: why 1921-1939 and not 1918-1939?-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 19:11, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Good point. Per pl-wiki, the first five (among them Lódź and Lublin) were created in 1919, with others added in the following years. Maybe a better way to go then would be to have Łódź Voivodeship (historical) and Lublin Voivodeship (historical), which would address all the past voivodeships with that name? Balcer 19:18, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Map of Poland was not fully completed until 1921, after adding Wilno and Upper Silesia. I guess this is why it is 1921-1939 (I did not come up with this span of time). Anyway, we should cooperate with each other, otherwise there will be a conflict. I mean LUCPOL and his edits, he destroyed all my work. Seeing this, I start to think it does not make sense to do anything Tymek 19:39, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Hmmm... Read above. LUCPOL 19:56, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Don't worry, your work is not destroyed, it is still sitting in the history of article and can be restored. What is the issue with User:LUCPOL, anyway? Balcer 19:48, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
I think LUCPOL's contributions deserve some scrutiny. Despite my objections, he created many categories related to the dubiously named "Metropolis Katowice" (I can't find them now; hopefully they were deleted). He also seems to think Silesia is its own country or some sort of subunit of the EU (see this). I tried to discuss these issues with him but was unsuccessful. Appleseed (Talk) 19:54, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Tymek trochę przesadził. Za bardzo nerwowo i panicznie się tym zajął. Tu jest toczona dyskusja pomiędzy mną i Tymkiem na temat autonomicznego województwa śląskiego (oraz jego i moich zmian): [5]. Najważniejsze by nie przesadzać w słowach. Appleseed - ty również trochę przesadziłeś tą opinią i tym linkiem. Przeczytaj sobie mój opis zmian w tym linku, on wyjaśnia wszystko. LUCPOL 20:13, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
As we all know, Silesia is not well-defined, and it is divided among several countries. As I wrote on your talk page, "I think the only solution is to avoid creating subcategories for regions. It doesn't make sense to create categories such as 'Universities and colleges in Silesia' that will include schools from three countries. We would have the same problem if someone created a category such as 'Universities and colleges in Galicia'." And yet you created all these categories. Appleseed (Talk) 20:30, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
OK, I will remove this category. LUCPOL 20:37, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
I wasn't just referring to Category:Education in Silesia, but to every subcategory of Category:Silesia that implicitly requires Silesia to be a well-defined region, which it is not. The only categories I can think of that should remain there are Silesian culture, Dukes of Silesia, and the two voivodeships. Appleseed (Talk) 20:51, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
They should be definitely nominated at WP:CFD. - Darwinek 20:38, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
It is not about being panicky, nervous or exaggerating. LUCPOL made changes which deleted important and true facts, this should never happen:
  • population of counties was removed - why?
  • several counties were removed - why?
  • population of cities was changed, without providing source
  • Swietochlowice was added to cities even though it was not a city then and LUCPOL knows it
  • Siemianowice was a city not an urban commune
  • Zaolzie cities were removed, plus Frysztat county - wouldn't it be better to leave them adding note "since October 1938"?
  • Silesian as an official language - how did you come up with this?

Anyway, LUCPOL is from Silesia, I will leave it to him. Please work it out, otherwise we will provide wrong info Greetings to all Tymek 20:42, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Widzę Tymek, że jednak zamierzasz tu prowadzić dyskusję, więc proszę - czytaj chociaż odpowiedzi bo powtarzasz ciągle te same sprawy:
"Dlaczego zmieniles zawartosc artykulu o Autonomicznym Wojewodztwie Slaskim w latach miedzywojennych?"
Wikipedia opiera się na tym, że można stale poprawiać i zmieniać hasła. Artykuł starałem się jak najbardziej upodobnić do artykułu w polskiej wersji językowej.
"Zachowales sie nieladnie, tak sie nie robi, usunales sporo wiadomosci ktore sa istotne i jak najbardziej prawdziwe"
Początek zdania zostawiam bez komentarza. Jeśli chodzi o drugą część tego zdania: nie usunąłem sporo wiadomości. Prawie nic nie usunąłem. Głównie dodałem infobox i zrobiłem zmiany redakcyjne (zamieniając nieczytelne dane na tabele z polskiej wikipedii). Przypatrz się dokładnie moim zmianom.
"usunales tez powiat frysztacki ktory nalezal do tego wojewodztwa w okresie jesien 1938-wrzesien 1939"
Ja w artykule przedstawiłem dane z 1929, wtedy nie było tego powiatu w województwie. Po za tym, z twojej wersji wynika, że Chorzów (pop. 128 900) był większym miastem od Katowic (pop. 126 200) co nie było prawdą. LUCPOL 19:13, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
"Wedlug spisu powszechnego Polski z 1931 roku Chorzow byl wiekszy od Katowic"
Czy aby na pewno? PS. Zobacz też tu.
"Powiat frysztacki nalezal do tego wojewodztwa od roku 1938, ale nie rozumiem dlaczego calkowicie go usunales, skoro istnial (wystarczylo napisac, ze istnial w latach 38-39)"
Tu się z tobą zgadzam. Ale o tym później.
"A co z tym jezykiem slaskim? Gdzie to znalazles?"
Dane przeniosłem z pl.wikipedii. Wiem, że ten język był nieoficjalny, lecz infobox ma w kodzie wpisane "Official" (czego nie ma na pl.wikipedii) i stąd te komplikacje. Nie mniej jednak poprawiłem - wpisałem adnotacje 1Non official. PS. Czeski również wtedy nie był oficjalnie uznawanym językiem w województwie.
Mam do Ciebie propozycję, utwórz proszę tabelę z miastami i powiatami tak jak jest w artykule lecz z twoimi danymi. Dane są znacznie bardziej czytelne dzięki tabeli. Tabelę wprowadź w brudnopisie lub w mojej dyskusji lub po prostu w dyskusji artykułu. Jeśli będzie wszystko OK to podmieni się tabele w artykule na twoje dane. Nie mam nic przeciwko. LUCPOL 19:48, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
It must be said that Czech language ceased to be official in Zaozie area after 1938 annexation of Zaolzie by Poland. It was forbidden to use it officially. - Darwinek 20:53, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
LUCPOL I said I would leave it to you, so please... Just remember - use some brains while editing Tymek 22:12, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Tymek. Wpisz swoje dane w tabelki "miasta" i "powiaty" tak jak jest w artykule. Dla mnie wszystko jedno czy to będą dane z pl.wikipedii czy twoje, byle by były to dane uporządkowane w tabelach. LUCPOL 22:25, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Wszystkie dane sa w tym materiale ktory usunales. Nie widze sensu szukac w Roczniku Statystycznym i wklepywac to od nowaTymek 22:40, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Nie zrozumiałeś mnie. Chodzi o to, aby te twoje dane [6] wpisać w tabele: "miasta" oraz drugą tabelę "powiaty". LUCPOL 23:05, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
LUcpol prosze Cie... w jaki sposob Austria dostala po 3. Powstaniu Slaskim czesc Gornego Slaska? Skad bierzesz takie rewelacje? Tymek 23:12, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Racja, mój błąd. Mój angielski nie jest biegły, myślałem że chodzi o to, że tereny Górnego Śląska były cały czas podzielone pomiędzy kraje (i dlatego dopisałem Austrię), teraz rozumiem że w tekście chodzi tylko o autonomiczne województwo śląskie. Mój błąd już poprawiłem. LUCPOL 23:40, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Zrobiłem tabele według twoich danych. Tabele (moje i twoje) oraz dyskusja ich dotycząca jest tutaj. LUCPOL 23:41, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Wprowadziłem dane Tymka do tabel i zapisałem w artykule. Choć istnieje mały bałagan dotyczący dat (1931, 1939) to jednak ustępuję Tymkowi. Tu jest nowa wersja artykułu: [7]. Pozdrawiam. LUCPOL 10:48, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

LUCPOL to nie sa moje dane, to sa oficjalne dane z Rocznika Statystycznego za rok 1939. Nie chodzi o to zeby mi ustapic tylko aby podawac informacje mozliwie 100% prawdziwe. Akurat w tym wypadku zrodla z ktorego cytuje nie mozna podwazyc. Balagan bierze sie stad ze drugi i jednoczesnie ostatni spis ludnosci Polski ogloszony zostal bodaj 9 grudnia 1931 r. Po tym czasie az do wojny zadnego spisu nie zrobiono, tak wiec dane demograficzne oparte sa na nim. Dane dotyczace obszaru powiatow i miast podane sa za rok 1939 poniewaz jak wiadomo po aneksji Zaolzia powierzchnia tego wojewodztwa zwiekszyla sie o powiat frysztacki plus znacznie zwiekszono cieszynski Tymek 01:54, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

As Balcer has suggested, I am going to seperate some voivodeships, to emphasize the span of time (interwar period only). I started off here Pomeranian_voivodeship_(1919-1939). Please check it out and let me know what you think of it. Also, add any stuff which I have not included Tymek 18:22, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
I need someone to help me out and create a map of Polesie Voivodeship. Tymek 14:53, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Catherine Karina Chmiel

This article (about a painter) is currently on VfD. Could someone take a look? TIA Pavel Vozenilek 11:58, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

More: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jacek Yerka, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Katarzyna Kozyra. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 17:01, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Name of powiat?

Could someone assist me with the name of the powiat directly East of the Warszawski Zachodni powiat? Thanks! Rarelibra 20:03, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Looks like the city of Warsaw. See Masovian Voivodeship. Olessi 20:20, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. I was looking HERE and it wasn't too helpful. Rarelibra 20:30, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Location maps

Welcome, on Commons (here) are good location maps of cities in Poland. It will be great to change current maps in enWiki to these. Regards. Yarl.pl talk 13:17, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

There is also the rather interesting commons:Atlas of Poland. Also, it would be a good idea to move all maps from Category:Maps of Poland to commons.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 17:29, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Expulsion and repatriation

There is a strong pressure to describe the Expulsion of the Germans as a crime. At the sama time some poeple promote the idea of the Repatriation of Poles from Wilno region as an act of historical justice. I believe that this Wikipedia should be integral, ie. either all forced expulsions after WWII are wrong or all forced expulsions are good. Now I'm bashed both by Germany fans and Lithuania fans. Xx236 12:37, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

An example: removed from this board by the original poster


Let everyone read the text, why to be ashamed? Xx236 15:10, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the text is worth reading http://www.istorija.lt/lim/stravinskiene2004en2.html as an example of Lithuanian academic quality. The problem is, that many Germans also opted for repatriation, many of them weren't allowed to emigrate. It wasn't always simple to be expelled. Xx236 15:17, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Repatriation as we all know means "returning to one's homeland". I cannot comprehend why some people up to this day call expulsions of Poles from Lwow or Wilno "repatriation". Homes of these unfortunate beings had for hundreds of years been in Eastern Borderlands, so theoretically speaking, if some of them now return from Wroclaw to their hometown of Lwow - now this is repatriation Tymek 20:25, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
The Poles were forced to leave Kresy (includiing Wilno), there are plenty of refs for that. I agree with Xx that both of these events should presented as without trying to 'whitewash' them.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 01:46, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

The original poster accuses me of spreading lies. One should prove first, that the expulsion was a repatriation, which is rather impossible. Is there a serious Lithuanian here, to explain to the original poster that he could be more polite? The shouting doesn't make him more right. Xx236 13:24, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

I told that you were lying about: At the sama time some poeple promote the idea of the Repatriation of Poles from Wilno region as an act of historical justice. Could you support this great accusation of yours with any diffs, or would you be willing to apologize?
As about repatriation you might read the article, link to which I did provide. If you do not like what is written there, please provide any academic sources disputing this event or proving that repatriation/evacuation/moving of those people was done by force. And please be specific - we are talking about Lithuanian SSR - not the whole Kresy, not Ukraine and not Belarus. Academic sources please, not newspapers or some website by patriotic authors.--Lokyz 13:39, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

You are claiming that the Poles were repatriated. I haven't started the discussion and I haven't accused you of spreading lies, rather of lack of knowledge and radical nationalism. A reader can check the Vilnius University talk page. Xx236 13:46, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ponary massacre carried by... Poles

If we were to believe some users, yes. Please see Talk:Ypatingasis būrys#Poles and Russians in YB?, and if you can read Lithuanian, please help verify and translate the source used to back up this preposterous claim.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 17:27, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Things not always were as you would like to see them. And your tendency to use fancy words won't help here. Here is exact line, and translation [8]. Have good day.--Lokyz 15:53, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
That one Lithuanian source claims that YB numbered a few Poles and Russians among their ranks might deserve a mention in YB article, but certainly gives no ground for a claim that Ponary massacre was carried by the Poles (and Russians).-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 19:18, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jan of Ryczywol

Anyone know who this medieval person is? I have a WP:RS I've been using from 1903 for anti-Judaism which mentions that "in Poland Pope Gregory XI stopped the crusade of Jan of Ryczywol." But I can't find a mention of this person anywhere else in English. Are there perhaps alternate spellings I'm missing? -- Kendrick7talk 23:58, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

  • Are you sure that person is notable? The only Jan Ryczywół I could find is a person linked to the legend of the stolen chastices from Poznań.Mieciu K 01:49, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
    • Possibly not, the author may have been grasping at straws. Pope Gregory XI had a fairly short reign to begin with. I'll probably end up removing it as spurious. Just wanted to make sure this Jan wasn't someone infamous in the Polish realm. -- Kendrick7talk 03:51, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
      • Not even far right Polish websites mention Jan of Ryczywół/Jan Ryczywół/Jan z Ryczywołu or his crusade. Can you provide us with a citation so we can set this person in some kind of context? Mieciu K 17:51, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Um, a 1903 source is not the one I'd think of as reliable... I cannot find any reference for that, neither, and besides, in 1903 there was technically no Poland... -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 02:00, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
    • This would have been the 1300s, when the Kingdom of Poland existed. It's just odd as the source has been otherwise perfectly reliable, but any fuller history here seems to have fallen thru the cracks. -- Kendrick7talk 02:33, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
      • Ah, I was under the impression we were talking about a person from 1903, too. I will look into that, but I think the pl link Mieciu found is most useful. Note it is a legend... -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 05:56, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
        • OK; I ran the link thru a babblefish. Generally, sources seem to agree on an incident regarding host desecration in 1399 in Poznan, but that's far to late to involve the Pope my source mentions, who died in 1378 (and needless to say, googling "Pope" and "Poland" isn't helpful, no matter what other search terms I append). Thanks for your help; obviously my source got his facts wrong here. -- Kendrick7talk 18:05, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] History of Poland (1945–1989) FAR

History of Poland (1945–1989) has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. LuciferMorgan 21:14, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Poland

A reminder that it is an interesting page to watchlist.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 04:48, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rokosz move

See Talk:Zebrzydowski's Rokosz - RM for movement to Zebrzydowski Rebellion.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 19:10, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of cities in Poland

Every town in Poland now has an article (well, almost every town, as I am guessing a few are still missing from that list for one reason or another). Most of these articles are still stubs. Please help with improving them, by expanding those about towns in your area, for starters. Balcer 21:59, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:WikiProject Silesia

Chciałbym zaprosić wszystkich do nowootwartego: Wikipedia:WikiProject Silesia. Mam nadzieję że ktoś wpisze się na listę użytkowników i coś czasem poedytuje związanego ze Śląskiem :) LUCPOL 23:09, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Out of control list

After more recent additions (such as Scarlett Johansson, Richard Feynman, and Adrian Brody), it has come to my attention that List of Polish Jews has gotten completely out of hand. I had tried to add warning notices and they have been removed. Can somebody please open up a vote for inclusion type thing like was established [[9]] on List of Poles and participate in it? LeszekB 17:11, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

  • Be bold. Since the article is already semi-protected I propose the deleation of all unsourced "polish-jews", and asking some administrators to take care of this list so that unsourced "jews" are not added again. Unfortunatly this list is a honeypot for all people with a WP:POINT to make. Mieciu K 17:45, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
It is not anonymous users who keep adding these names with poor excuses. It is registered users. I don't think there's any way to break through. A small group of them have a virtual monopoly on the list, and it's growing with constantly more ridiculous additions with either poor sources, no sources, or sources that just say some ancestor of the person was from Poland and Jewish. LeszekB 00:28, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Talking about lists, list of Poles is a giant mess, too. I once suggested it should be burned, salted and replaced with User:Piotrus/List of Poles, and we should have strict criteria what other publications (other than Polski Słownik Biograficzny) guarantee inclusion in that list (personally I find such list useless, categories do a better job anyway).-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 20:00, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree, burn it down. - Darwinek 20:08, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Seconded. Even if it's accurate, a list like that is too big to be useful. Appleseed (Talk) 20:13, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Hmmm, AfD consensus? I can see a point in smaller lists, or lists with clear criteria (list of Poles according to PSB like mine) but this... brrr. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 20:22, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
It seems we have already reached the consensus, so screw AFD. - Darwinek 20:49, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Ummm, I am afraid we need 1) more time - 3 people in few hours is not a consensus yet and 2) AFD is the procedure, unless you can think of a good reason to speedy this... Plus if we can AFD this maybe we can afd similar monstrosities related to other nationalities (or ethnic groups, etc.).-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 21:19, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
I agree, too. IMHO we should make something similar to Lists of Jews. Jacek Kendysz 00:22, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
Or just a category would do? I'm all for that. But how can we justify having a massively messy List of Polish Jews and no List of Poles? LeszekB 00:28, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
List of Polish Jews is less messy than List of Poles :) For that list my vote is 'delete all non-referenced entries, live referenced ones'. Although honestly it is a good candidate for catetorization and deletion, too.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 01:05, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
It's not that simple though. Some of them are sourced, but sourced with a link saying someone's grandmother was a Jew from Poland and that somehow legitimatizes the addition because a small note on the list is interpreted as meaning "This list can have everyone with some Polish-Jewish heritage." At least List of Poles consists of people actually BORN in Poland and knowing the Polish language (save maybe some overlooked additions). Look at the politicians section of List of Polish Jews. LeszekB 01:39, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
As far as List of Poles is concerned, there should be some criteria upon which this list should be based. I wrote in comments to this article that adding such world-renowned personalities as Natalia Kukulska simpy does not make any sense (unless we want to end up with a list consisting of, say, 5,000 names). If Natalia (or Kasia Kowalska) is there, how about adding all football players of Arka Gdynia, all musicians of Papa Dance and all politicians of Platforma Obywatelska. After all, they are all Poles Tymek 19:42, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
Exactly. As far as I am concerned the only reasonable solution is to rely on some external criteria 'notable because noted in a publication', and we have a rather perfect solution for that.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 19:49, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
Well we can get this established pretty easily by holding an RFC or something, and getting a consensus on it. From the looks of it, everyone here would probably support the use of the Polski Słownik Biograficzny as the only standard by which to define someone as a Pole. Open up a RFC and lets have a vote. Only thing is, it needs to be made very clear that if someone is not in the Polski Słownik Biograficzny they cannot be added to any list that includes Poles or "Polish" in the title --- including List of Poles, List of Polish writers, List of Polish Jews et c. LeszekB 12:32, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
Playing the devil's advocate, there are few issues to consider. First: PSB is not complete (up to around Sz) and it is not supposed to be complete for about 20 years (sic!). I'd think we can solve this by agreeing to include entries from recognized encyclopedias (we should have a list) that mentioned somebody along with his (Polish, obviously) nationality. Second, we need to discuss whether this criteria should apply to other Lists of Polish whatevers and Category:Polish people with its subcats (I'd tentativly say yes).-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 13:52, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
I do agree, generally, lists like these make a problem. On a related note, there were some Polish names on List of Ukrainians that did not really belong there (BTW, a user was blocked for pushing that). Now we had another one who apparently likes lists and e.g. added Adam Rotfeld (born 1938 in Lviv, then Lwow). I found it offending the common sense (see his bio or the related talk page). I spent several kB to argue for more accuracy and I have enough (for the moment Rotfeld is not there; I withdraw anyway). Probably we need there more eyes, since it is possible that there are a few more inaccurate entries. --Beaumont (@) 10:00, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposal by LeszekB

I think there's too much talk and way less do. The following 9 points of criteria were taken from an old vote on inclusion for List of Poles. Now, we can vote to apply certain ones for all lists and categories of Poles associated with the country of Poland (meaning anything from Category:Polish logicians to List of Polish painters to List of Polish Jews, but not Polish-American or Polish-Brazilians because they are associated with another country). If anyone wants to add another criteria or adjust one, do so. Vote Support or Oppose for each. This vote can be used as evidence of consensus. LeszekB 06:20, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

I forgot to imply that they should all be notable and wikipedia article worthy. LeszekB 05:58, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

1. Notable people born in Poland or immigrants to Poland’s territory including periods when Polish territory was occupied by other countries – Partitions and wars.

2. Notable people born in current Polish territory in times when the place was not in Poland in relevant period. E.g. Wrocław or Szczecin in times of Partitions.

  • Object - no claim of notability. Plus above can of worms.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 04:56, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Object Polish territory was massive at one point in time and encompassed people of all ethnicities. LeszekB 06:08, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

3. Notable people born to Polish emigrants – at least one parent of Polish ethnicity, but without any evidence that they spoke Polish etc.

4. Notable people born to Polish emigrants – at least one grand parent of Polish ethnicity, without evidence as above.

5. Notable people who have any connection to Polish ethnicity, even one ancestor many generations back, or only alleged connections. E.g. Friedrich Nietzsche, John Kerry.

  • Object - no claim of notability and probably half of US would fit...-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 04:56, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Object There are millions of notable people with SOME Polish ancestry. This doesn't make them Polish. LeszekB 06:08, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

6. Notable people whose connection to Polish ethnicity is not confirmed but they have Polish surnames, or whose surnames may seem Polish. E.g. Howard Scott Warshaw, Andy Warhol, Joseph L. Mankiewicz, Paul Mazursky, Adrien Brody, Robert Siodmak, Zeev Suraski, Sergei Sakhnovski, and all the list of American football players, and wrestlers with Polish surenames [10].

7. Anyone who is widely recognised by majority of Poles as a famous Pole.

  • Object. Too weaselish. I can just see somebody taking this and running to Copernicus or Jogaila/Jagiełło...-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 04:56, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Support I believe this would probably work out. LeszekB 06:08, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

8. Anyone listed in the Polski Słownik Biograficzny

9. Any naturalized citizen.

10. Anyone listed in any Polish encyclopedia whith a statement that this person was a Pole (Polish...)

I'm sorry but the above vote seems to be on a verge of WP:OR. We should not attempt to redefine the meaning of "Polish" by a means of voting. --Lysytalk 07:27, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Lysy, there is no other way. People are not sourcing Poles based on sources that say they are "Polish." We need a standard. At this point, there's no way to prevent peopel from just adding anyone of Polish connections to a list or category. LeszekB 05:58, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Isn't the entire WP:N an OR by that logic?-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 06:13, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
I should add, that if you would read this "Polish Biographical Dictionary", you would certainly find, that many people mentioned there are not Polish by any means, but rather People that had influence in Poland's history (like Michal Radziwill the Black - Im certain you would not want to call that person Polish in the face, if you would meet him). There are load of such people in this list.--Lokyz 08:21, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
While I don't think that calling somebody Polish is an insult, I know you have different views on that. Setting that aside, PSB indeed includes foreigners and people who are not Polish but simply Poland-related - but they are minority, and common sense should be enough deal with this cases, primarily: whether PSB calls sb Polish or not, should be enough.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 06:13, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
You're putting words into my mouth - I did not say "insulting", and please, there's no need to distort my words, ok? Apology would be approprate here.
As for why Radziwill certainly would not like to be called Polish you may read in the same PSB.--Lokyz 08:58, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Indeed, I am waiting for it.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 17:56, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Commons Picture of the Year competition

Hope you fogive me for a little OT spam, but it's quite amazing :) The Wikimedia Commons Picture of the Year competition has reached the second and final round. For the second round, which lasts through Wednesday, February 28, the 321 pictures on the shortlist have been narrowed to the top 11 (due to a tie). Users with at least 100 edits on any local project or Commons can vote on their favorite of the 11 photos. The finalists can be seen and voted upon here.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 15:13, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Polanski?

A few days ago, the article on Roman Polański was moved to Roman Polanski after a discussion in which no Polish editors took part. I wish to call your attention to this fact and to state that I strongly believe it should be moved back to Polański (unless it can be shown he has legally changed his name). What say you? Biruitorul 02:19, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I thought there was a discussion on that... at least I thought I asked somewhere somebody for sources on n vs ń in this case. In either case, I suggest comparing popularity of those two variants, as well as which is preffered by the subject, and acting on the basis of hard data.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 21:14, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
If anyone has evidence that the subject still spells his name "Roman Polański" then I'd be happy to see it kept at that location. However his personal website does not use the diacritical, nor has he used it in movie credits. This is the English-language Wikipedia, so the most common usage in this language should be used, not the usage in Polish. -Will Beback · † · 01:49, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rename Polish Legions in Italy

I belive a better name would be Polish Legions (Napoleonic period) or just Polish Legions (Napoleon). Comments appreciated on Talk:Polish Legions in Italy.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 17:36, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Extermination camps in occupied Poland

Extermination camp#Post war currently this article seems to imply that the Poles/Polish goverment had something to hide. After reading this question i was so frustrated that I added some new info to the Extermination camp, educating people why nazi extermination camps were built in Poland seems to be a very difficult task. Mieciu K 18:10, 23 February 2007 (UTC) Mieciu K 18:06, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Krzysztof Klicki

This one liner is currently on PROD. Could someone take a look if it is, by a chance, expandable? Pavel Vozenilek 21:00, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Polish-Ukrainian?

Could someone please check out this person (Włodzimierz Stożek) and determine whether he was Polish-Ukrainian? Looks like he was only Polish, the very fact that he lived in Lwow does not mean anything about his Ukrainian roots. Does anyone know? Or are the Ukrainians adding Poles to their list? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tymek (talk • contribs).

Of course they are. Interesting examples include Stefan Banach, Hugo Steinhaus, Feliks Barański, and Adam Rotfeld (the latter was particularly puzzling - his parents were executed by Ukrainians, yet Mibelz (talk • contribs) pushed him on that list...). A reason is the highly misleading header putting essentially all kind of people just slightly related to Ukraine as Ukrainians. In particular this includes those born in Lwów at the time it was called Lwów... I argued for more precision (e.g. separate subsections at the very least), but it was again reverted by Mibelz and recently reedited by our favorite anon 67.180.something (still vandalizing Banach, Steinhaus etc) to be as arbitrary as possible. I've just reverted some names, but definitely this is not the end. I think interested editors could add this article to their watchlists. --Beaumont (@) 19:45, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
Let's first clean up our mess, shall we?-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 21:14, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Polonization dispute

It's that time of the year again. Polonization is growing, painfully. More comments would be appreciated, particulary to explain to some readers that 100-year old Russian/Soviet research is less preferable to modern Western one. Sigh.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 20:20, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Piotrus, it saddens me that you not only resort to canvassing but blatantly misrepresent what the dispute is. Shame. --Irpen 20:29, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
It saddens me that you result to WP:STALK. Please don't assume bad faith about others actions.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 20:43, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
No, no, no. I do not stalk. This board is on my watchlist and I occasionally post here to ask for help or provide my feedback to the ongoing discussion. Mostly amusing is that you know that very well. So, why stalk? Anyway, say what you want. --Irpen 20:59, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject:Silesia

[edit] Portal:Silesia

  • (Polish) Chciałbym powiadomić wszystkich, że uruchomiono Portal:Silesia. LUCPOL 22:49, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
  • (English) Attention everyone, Portal:Silesia is now open. Balcer 22:51, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Deletion review/Daniel Brandt

I apologize again with unrelated to Poland annoucement, but I believe this discussion (vote) is very important to Wikipedia. Shortly: DB is a notable critic of Wikipedia who requested that Wikipedia delete his article. I believe that nobody should have the right to censor any information, including among themselves (think if China requests we delete all China-related articles...). This has caused significant controversy. If you want to shape Wikipedia's future, please vote - and in this case I will take exceptional stance and strongly advice voting Overturn deletion (undelete).-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 23:29, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Commons turf

commons:Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests#Several_images.2C_see_below. An admin from Katowice deleted my photos for 'bad quality' under speedy, violating Commons guidelines (bad quality is not a reason for speedy deletion) - but his friends support his actions :/ This is an evident case of admin abusing his powers, and a bad case of deletionist motives. Comments appreciated (unless we want to see mass deletions on Commons of any images that fails to satisfy some admin's arbitrary quality standards).-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 01:11, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Talk:Historical eastern Germany

Another renaming discussed.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 01:55, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kaczyński

One these sections (1, 2) get translated, do we duplicate the content, or just insert it in one and link to it from the other? Kind of a silly question, but as a fan of the Kaczyńskis, I suppose I just want to see that information on en.wiki, as well as the article on their father. Biruitorul 04:44, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

IMHO either would do. Generally, however, I prefer self-contained articles, so I tend to duplicate info -- especially if it is not too long. As long as we are not dead-tree encyclopedia, we do not need to save the paper ;-) Let us be reader-friendly and not force him to explore a bunch of pages to find the relevant info. The only situation that justifies linking instead of giving the explicit text arises when we link to a _really_ broader separate main article (a history-of-something or alike); and even in this case a concise résumé is highly helpful. --Beaumont (@) 10:19, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
Or consider creating a subarticle like Bush family... -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 22:08, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
OK. If anyone wishes to translate, I can provide a free translation from ro.wiki in exchange. Biruitorul 01:57, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A-class Poland-related articles review

Suggested at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Poland/Assessment. Please comment (and also, please help with Wikipedia:WikiProject Poland/Assessment in general).-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 23:30, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Polish folk beliefs

Can anybody verify this? I think a good part of that was removed from Slavic mythology for not being verifiable, and parts of it come from deleted subarticles...-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 00:04, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Belarus

As done once before, can any Polish editor look at the article to see if the article is NPOV? I intend to make it a featured article, but since a lot of content about Poland is included, I figured to see if yall want to look at it first. Thanks. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 01:57, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

It will be an interesting challenge, I wish you good luck. I will try to help.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 03:42, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
I have another question, open to anyone: has there been recent border demarcation issues between Belarus and Poland (from indepdence to present)? User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 07:40, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
Recent, no. I vaguely recall something shortly after the IIWW between Poland and SU...-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 21:15, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
I can cover that in the history section, if you want. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 21:30, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Some time ago Belarus Wikipedia included some almost revisionistic contents.Xx236 11:14, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of Ukrainians

User:67.180.67.179 has lately been engaged in a POV-pushing vandalism spree, which began with trying to unreasonably expand the above list and add unsourced claims about people on it, but has now become wider. Examples include [11], [12] [13]. Please keep an eye out for similar edits. Balcer 14:36, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Silesia

There seems to be some gigantic controversy around Upper Silesian Industry Area, Upper Silesian Coal Basin (article just got turned to a redirect in one fell swoop), Upper Silesian Metropolitan Area (also just blanked), Upper Silesian Metropolitan Union and finally Template:Metropolia Katowice, which just got removed from dozens of articles. User:R9tgokunks and User:LUCPOL are engaged in much of this editing.

Now, at this point, I am really not sure what the controversy is, but mass editing articles without discussion is clearly not constructive. Plus, a whole slew of articles related to Silesia are in effect getting disrupted. Help is needed. I invite impartial editors to mediate. Balcer 02:54, 26 February 2007 (UTC)


I left the following missive on User:R9tgokunks discussion page:

[edit] Upper Silesian Coal Basin, Upper Silesian Industry Area and Upper Silesian Metropolitan Union are three distinct entities -- please don't redirect these things to one article

I realize that some wikipedians have confused the issue with their edits and unfortunate name choices and article moves, but the truth of the matter is as follows (and largely follows the situation on the Polish wikipedia, with one noted exception stated below):

  • Upper Silesian Coal Basin (Polish: Górnosląskie Zagłębie Węglowe, GZW) is a geological designation in geography and describes a wide region saturated with coal deposits. Google for USCB or the extended name and you will see it used in scholarly geological and coal-mining literature. Unfortunately, User:LUCPOL has portrayed it as a metropolitan area on both the Polish and English wikipedias. This should be fixed, and is the exception I allude to above, but redirecting this article about a geological/geographic region to another article about an urban agglomeration which happens to lie within the northern portion of this region is not the way to do it.
  • Upper Silesian Industry Area is the large agglomeration situated within the northern part of Upper Silesian Coal Basin. In Polish it is GOP or Górnosląski Okręg Przemysłowy/aglomeracja katowicka/konurbacja górnosląska among others, but certainly not "Górnosląskie Zagłębie Węglowe" (Upper Silesian Coal Basin). It has about 2.8 million inhabitants, and is centered around [[Katowice] and its cluster of neighboring cities such as Gliwice, Bytom, Zabrze, Chorzów, Sosnowiec.
  • Upper Silesian Metropolitan Union, (Polish: Górnosląski Związek Metropolitalny, GZM) is a proposed union of 14 cities which have the legal status of urban counties. These cities happen to be a large portion of the Upper Silesian Industry Area, but this union is not the same thing as the metropolitan area/agglomeration known as Upper Silesian Industry Area (GOP). This union has very definite goals (see the section which I added before you blanked the article into a redirect). It is not, however, a new single municipality/super-city. Its combined population is 2.1 million. It should not be a redirect to the article about the agglomeration of which it is part, either.
  • There is another, smaller, agglomeration/metropolitan area to the southwest of the Upper Silesian Industry Area - it's the Rybnik Coal Area or the Rybnik Coal District (Polish: Rybnicki Okręg Węglowy, ROW). It has 0.7 million inhabitants. LUCPOL argues that the two metropolitan areas have coalesced into one "de facto" metropolitan area, which he calls Upper Silesian Coal Basin, but that's premature - I find no support for this in literature.

In sum, referring to the Polish acronyms which are confirmed/verifiable/acutally used by everyone, it's best to reflect in wikipedia the following reality: there are two metropolitan areas (GOP = 2.8 million, ROW = 0.7 million) within a coal basin (GZW), and that the larger agglomeration includes within its area a proposed union of 14 cities (GZM). That's the facts, and I ask you to not be a party to further making a mess of them with harmful, confusing redirects. Take care, --Mareklug talk 04:20, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Ja, LUCPOL zmieniłem zawartość artykułów Upper Silesian Coal Basin (GZW), Upper Silesian Industry Area (GOP), Rybnik Coal Area (ROW) i Upper Silesian Metropolitan Union (GZM) według uwag User:Mareklug. Z artykułów Upper Silesian Coal Basin (GZW) i Upper Silesian Industry Area (GOP) usunąłem wiele dublujących i zbędnych danych np. spisy teatrów (theatre), znanych osób itp [14], [[15]]. Tego typu spisy powinny być raczej w jednostkach administracyjnych np. Upper Silesian Metropolitan Union (GZM), a nie w aglomeracjach. Zmieniłem też wstęp tych artykułów np. w artykule Upper Silesian Industry Area (GOP) pisze teraz że jest to okręg przemysłowy i konurbacja (choć Mareklug jest za słowem aglomeracja, ja jestem innego zdania - bo to conurbation), w Upper Silesian Coal Basin (GZW) pisze teraz że jest to zagłębie węglowe i de facto obszar metropolitalny (określenie "de facto" jest w tym przypadku ważne, bo nie jest to oficjalne). Myślę, że teraz te artykuły są OK i jest kompromis zadowalający obie strony. LUCPOL 14:01, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Upper Silesian Coal Basin

(Polish)Powyzsze zmiany LUCPOLa troche pomagaja, niestety, w przypadku artykulu o GZW daleko mu jeszcze do prawdy. Artykul zawiera nieodpowiednie grafiki - okolice Katowic na starej mapie z 1905, ktore nie pokazuje granic zaglebia, i nieaktualna (bledna) mapke GZM, ktory jest mniejszy od tego na mapie (nie ma w nim Bedzina, Knurowa i Czeladzi), i jest jeszcze mniejszym fragmentem opisywanego obszaru. Potrzebna jest mapa GZW. Sama definicja jest bledna - to "de facto metropolitan area" jest moim zdaniem tworczoscia wlasna LUCPOLa - i zaglebie *nie jest* poprawnie zdefiniowane jako obszar lezacy czesciowo w Polsce i czesciowo na Czechach. Totez tabela miast na obszarze zaglebia tez jest mylna i wylicza tylko miasta GOP i ROW, pomijajac czeskie. No i nikt nie twierdzi ze czeskie miasta zaglebia i polskie funcjonuja jako aglomeracja/zespol miejski, wiec cale to "de facto metropolitan area" jest wysoce niestosowne chocby z tego powodu. A artykul, zamiast powtarzac danych o transporcie z artykulu o GZM-ie czy GOP-ie powinien tyczyc sie faktow gorniczych i geologicznych o zaglebiu - co tam tkwi z ziemi, np. duze zloza metanu; ile wegla wydobyto a ile jeszcze pozostalo, itp.
(English)The above changes made by LUCPOL help a bit, but, unfortunately, in the case of the Upper Silesian Coal Basin the article is still far from being truthful. The article contains inappropriate graphics - the vicinity of Katowice on an old map from 1905, which do not indicate the extent/boundaries of the coal basin, and an outdated (faulty) map of the Upper Silesian Metropolitan Union, which is smaller than the area claimed on the map (it does not include Bedzin, Knurow and Czeladz). The definition of the subject of the article is mistaken -- the phrase "de facto metropolitan area" is in my opinion original research of LUCPOL - and the coal basin *is not* properly defined as an area straddling Poland and the Czech Republic. And so, the table of cities found in the coal basin is wrong and lists only the constituent cities of Polish metro areas Upper Silesian Industry Area (GOP) and Rybnik Coal Area (ROW), omitting the Czech cities. And no one makes a claim that the Polish and Czech cities of the coal basin function as one agglomeration/metropolitan area. Therefore, this "de facto metropolitan area" definition is wrong, if only for that reason. And the article, instead of repeating the information about transport and roads included in the articles about Upper Silesian Metropolitan Union or Upper Silesian Industry Area should focus on the mining-related and geological information pertaining to the coal basin -- what's in the ground there; for example, considerable quantities of methane; how much coal has been dug up and how much more remains, and so on. --Mareklug talk 06:51, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
Kolego Mareklug. Usunąłem właśnie z artykułu mapkę GZM [16] lecz mapka zagłębia z 1905 roku zostaje choćby dlatego, że nie ma lepszej. Jak na razie nikomu ona nie przeszkadzała. Jak stworzysz lub znajdziesz lepszą to wtedy możemy pogadać :) Co do twojego cytatu: "zaglebie *nie jest* poprawnie zdefiniowane jako obszar lezacy czesciowo w Polsce i czesciowo na Czechach" - a czy to tylko i wyłącznie wina osoby która pisała artykuł? Tu jest przecież Wikipedia. Zamiast ciągle narzekać to trzeba było uzupełnić artykuł lub wpisać o tym w dyskusji artykułu, aby wpisał to kto inny. Napisałeś również "nikt nie twierdzi ze czeskie miasta zaglebia i polskie funcjonuja jako aglomeracja/zespol miejski, wiec cale to "de facto metropolitan area"..." - a ja się ciebie spytam: jakim prawem edytujesz w artykule o którym nie masz zielonego pojęcia i robisz zamieszanie odnośnie rzeczy o których nic nie wiesz? Czy ty nie rozumiesz, że aglomeracja, konurbacja, zespół miejski i obszar metropolitalny do cztery odrębne rzeczy? Jeśli nie widzisz pomiędzy nimi różnicy do dlaczego tu trolujesz? A teraz z innej beczki - obejżyj sobie tę grafikę: [17]. I ostatni cytat z tego twojego postu: "A artykul, zamiast powtarzac danych o transporcie z artykulu o GZM-ie czy GOP-ie powinien tyczyc sie faktow gorniczych i geologicznych o zaglebiu - co tam tkwi z ziemi, np. duze zloza metanu; ile wegla wydobyto a ile jeszcze pozostalo, itp" - dublujące dane o transporcie już usunąłem wcześniej (to tak na marginesie), co do reszty tego zdania się zgadzam, ale nie oczekuj że Ja - osoba znająca język angielski na poziomie en-1 zacznie tłumaczyć geologiczne teksty o zagłębiu. Tym to możesz się przecież sam zająć, ponieważ znasz lepiej język angielski ode mnie. I nie zrzucaj całej winy na mnie, bo kolejny raz piszesz w postach "LUCPOL to, LUCPOL tamto", jakbym Ja był co kolwiek winny :( LUCPOL 10:58, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Need to settle on a name for pl:Górnosląski Okręg Przemysłowy

Part of the problem with some Silesia articles, aside from excessive sharing of content, is the choice of name for the English article about pl:Górnosląski Okręg Przemysłowy/aglomeracja katowicka/konurbacja katowicka/konurbacja górnosląska/etc. Translations of Polish "GOP":

  • Upper Silesian Industry Area
  • Upper Silesian Industrial Area
  • Upper Silesian Industrial Region
  • Upper Silesian Industrial District
    • Support. To my ear, this is the natural English translation, precise and elegant. logologist|Talk 07:05, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

A generic existing redirect:

  • Upper Silesian Metropolitan Area

One might also consider:

  • Katowice agglomeration
  • Katowice Metropolitan Area
  • Katowice conurbation
  • Upper Silesian agglomeration
  • Upper Silesian conurbation
  • Katowice Metro Area (might be in use as including the Rybnik area)

There might be more candidates. The article about Silesian Voivodeship chooses to use "Upper Silesian Industrial District", albeit without linking it to anything. --Mareklug talk 05:18, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] big 1848 project

Dzien dobry!! I wanted to let you guys know I have proposed a WikiProject on the Revolutions of 1848 here. Come join if you're interested! K. Lásztocska 14:41, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Wow, a WikiProject just for that? Isn't it a bit excessive? I will surely help with related articles, though!-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 22:58, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Please help save pictures

See User talk:Emax and User talk:Witkacy (and add them to your watchlist). Those now inactive users have uploaded many Poland-related pictures in the past, but didn't bother with sourcing them, and often claimed PD for non-PD images. Now their images are getting tagged and deleted after few days, since almost nobody checks their userpages. Please help find sources (Google Image search is very useful) and/or reclassify those images (fairuse, etc.) so they are kept.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 23:39, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Lviv-Warsaw Philosophical School of Logic"

User:Gerea-en has moved "Lwów-Warsaw School of Logic" to "Lviv–Warsaw Philosophical School of Logic." Two questions:

  • 1. Why "Philosophical School"?
  • 2. Why "Lviv"?

Any thoughts? logologist|Talk 06:28, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Google search doesn't support the new version.Xx236 11:35, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Let's not forget that pesky en dash. It should be changed back to a hyphen. Appleseed (Talk) 15:38, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Revert as disputed controversial move with no consensus. Simple.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 23:31, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
I had previously undone Gerea-en's move of the article. This time, "The page could not be moved." Is there an administrator who could facilitate a move? I have limited experience of wiki-bureaucracy, and at the moment little desire to increase that experience. logologist|Talk 06:28, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

I expect that the redirect page must be removed and the move will be possible.Xx236 16:09, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

I deleted the redirect, and the School of Logic still would not repatriate. logologist|Talk 00:19, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
I've succeeded in getting the article over to "Lwow-Warsaw School of Logic," but of course that's not fully satisfactory, without the "ó" in "Lwów." logologist|Talk 00:24, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Exploding Diet

Is the term "Exploding Diet" used to describe the Sejm of the PLC? Google Books and Google Scholar turn up nothing (Poland-related, that is). I think the article should be deleted. It's probably bogus and doesn't contain any information worth merging into Sejm. Appleseed (Talk) 21:34, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Even though the article does not provide a single source, there’s something similar (if not equally puzzling) here. The document at www2.fultonschools.org is called APE REVIEW. The only reference to "exploding diet" is phrased as a question: What three states declined in Central/eastern Europe in the 17th & 18th centuries & why? Include: Peace of Karlowitz, exploding diet, Germanic liberties & capitulations.
The quiz called APE REVIEW could also be based on a hoaxed article about Poland created by User:69.212.2.169 on 19 October 2005, but I have no way of finding out what came first, the article or the quiz? My gut feeling is that it might be a hoax. The same user made some very suspicious edits to only 4 articles and than ceased to exist on that date. --Poeticbent talk 22:55, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
Vote move to Wikipedia:Bad Jokes and Other Deleted Nonsense. Balcer 23:23, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
Second the motion. logologist|Talk 00:40, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Coat of arms of Prus"

An article title like "Coat of arms of Prus" seems awkward and ambiguous. Why not "Prus coat of arms"? Better yet, "Prus coat-of-arms"? logologist|Talk 06:47, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but I'd suggest renaming all coats from Category:Polish coats of arms to such a model at once (bot?), otherwise we will have a mess.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 23:32, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. Who knows how to set a bot to the task?
I would strongly urge the "coat-of-arms" version, with hyphens, for enhanced legibility of the phrase.
logologist|Talk 05:02, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
I disagree. I think the version without hyphens is most common. Appleseed (Talk) 15:07, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

When I searched Google for "coat-of-arms" the results automatically included "coat of arms."
My results displayed:

  • about 1,660,000 for "coat of arms"
  • about 1,640,000 for "Coat of Arms"

It all boils down to personal preference. My preference is with "coat of arms" since the first 200 web results I looked at use it without exception. Phrase "coat-of-arms" is used only 4 times in the first 500 pages displayed by Google. It's an oddity. --Poeticbent talk 17:34, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't characterize "coat-of-arms" as an "oddity," any more than I would "commander-in-chief." Still, I won't fight over the hyphens, as long as we can get something less clunky than "Coat of arms of Prus." logologist|Talk 00:32, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Bot requests is the place to ask for bots to do something like this, I believe.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 05:17, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A useful tool: sortable tables

See Help:Sorting.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 17:23, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Piłsudski na Kasztance - for deletion

See Wikipedia:Images_and_media_for_deletion/2007_March_4#Image:Jozef_Pilsudski_na_Kasztance.jpg and comment on this example of meta:copyright paranoia.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 01:40, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Some remarks

You asked me to join the project, so I went and read something. Look at the "discussion" of the articles Battle of Somosierra and Plan Peking and read my remarks. There are only two articles I could read today and I am scared. If other articles are in the same condition, probably we have to start whole project from the very begining. We can not place on en-Wiki wrong translations or false informations if we do not want to create for us opinion of amateurs and dilettantes. belissarius 03:54, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, most of us are amateurs and dilettantes. There are precious few professionals editing Wikipedia (despite calls to arms). I am not aware of any professional historian with Polish specialization contributing to this project - we do what we can. We have done quite a few articles that I think we can be proud of (Polish-Soviet War, Katyn massacre, Jogaila) - but yes, it's a tip of the iceberg. Alas, there is only that much that a small group of volunteers can do :/ Still, every day, it gets better... Thank you for your comments - every little bit helps. And remember: Be bold in updating pages.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 15:23, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
As I understand (please, do not feel offended for "dilettantes") - correct me if I am wrong - am I able to update, improve or correct articles I found not paralelled with historical science? If so, I am starting tomorrow. Here I will just show you what I am telling about:

our knowledge of the Battle of Somosierra have two sources - one is the 13. Bulletin of de Grande Armeé, and the second "Memoirs of the 1. Regiment of the Polish Chevaulegers of the Imperial Guard of Napoleon I" written by Jozef B. Zaluski in the Krakow's periodical "Czas" from 1856 to 1858. There are not other evidences from eye-witnesses of the battle, and we have to back our article on that relations. Author(s) of the mentioned pl-Wiki and en-Wiki articles used instead the dubious article from the Polish newspaper "Rzeczpospolita" in which I can see many mistakes, as for number of cannons in the Spanish batteries, as well as for number of charges. I am going to improve the article in pl-Wiki as well. belissarius 05:18, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, you can edit anything you want. If you can, please use inline citations to back up any changes. And feel free to ask us for help on any technical matters!-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 15:18, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Polish Voivodeships 1919-1939

Obviously, this work will never be done, but I can say that more or less it is ready. Please check out the category

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Polish_historical_voivodeships_%281921%E2%80%931939%29

I have described the voivodeships of interbellum Poland, adding a trivia page. Please feel free to add any information you find Tymek 18:48, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Józef Kloze

Józef Kloze, an article about a Polish former footballer , was brought to my attention when it was nominated on AfD (it looks like a landslide keep). In searching for sources to expand it I found little in English, but it looks as though there are several promising online sources in Polish. Would any Polish-speaking Wikipedian care to expand it a little? Thanks. Oldelpaso 19:16, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../p/o/l/Portal_talk%7EPoland_Poland-related_Wikipedia_notice_board_Archive_8_d51d.html"

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