Talk:Hazara
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Hazara is within the scope of WikiProject Afghanistan, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Afghanistan-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page. |
The ethnic percentages of Afghanistan's population has been a matter of intense debate, and is the reason for the wild diversity seen for some ethnic groups.
Some Hazaras believe the Hazaras are upto 33% of Afghanistan's population, while two Pashtun politicians cited 2%. The recent (2004) elections gave Muhaqiq (leader of Hizb-e-Wahdat, a political party representing Hazaras) 11.6% of the national vote. Not all Hazaras were expected to vote for Muhaqiq, who secured only 76% of the votes in Bamian, the Hazara heartland. The remaining population would vote for Karzai, hoping for a stronger central authority to bring peace, and this would include the non-Shia-twelver Hazaras as well such as the Ismaili Hazaras and Sunni Hazaras.
Under Abul Ali Mazari, the Hizb e Wahdat enjoyed support from almost all Hazaras (matter of opinion and subject to debate), but has since been associated more with Iran's shia ideologies than Hazara nationalism.
Another point of consideration is the highly porous border with Pakistan. During the Russian War, Pashtuns, who had the easiest access to Pakistan, especially between Kandahar and Quetta, migrated in large numbers to Pakistan, a trend that was reversed during the Taliban years. hazara is the best people in worrd ok wirted my khalilullah hussaini hazara Yet another point of consideration is the drought of several years which affected both Pasthun and Hazara regions.
[edit] Origins and Physical Type of the Hazaras
Regarding recent edits: There needs to be more of a current assessment regarding the Hazara. Anthropologists and genetic tests show that the Hazara have mingled with Caucasoid groups to some degree AND vary and many are similar to the Uzbeks. How can they not considering that they are surrounded by Caucasoid groups even if they have maintained a more Mongol appearance due to their Shia religion which has set them apart enough so that they haven't intermingled with their neighbors as much as they probably would have otherwise. They aren't exclusively of Mongol ancestry and having Mongol words in their language is a trait that is found in Uzbek as well and doesn't prove their origins to be "Mongol." They are more likely a Turkic-Mongol group as opposed to simply Mongols of Genghis Khan's period.
Tombseye 11:53, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Problems with Population Totals?
There seem to be some discrepancies regarding the population total for the Hazara people. The wiki entry for Afghanistan indicates that the Hazara make up only 9% of the population, yet this article quotes a number as high as 25%. Most sources around the web that I have seen seem more favorable to a number around 10%. Someone knowledgeable needs to verify this information.
Seth 5:14pm EST, 30 April 2006
[edit] Hazara people working hard to survive
Hazara people are likely the most indigious people in Afghanistan yet least known people of Afghanistan. Hazara people were the largest ethnic group in Afghanistan with 67% of total population in Afghanistan before 1900. More than 62% of their of their population were massacred and 60% of their land was taken by Pashtuns in the years between 1880- 1893.
Hazara people love life and work hard continuely for their life and culture survival, even if they have had been under the most extreme immoral and inhuman regimes in the world.
www.hazara.net www.hazaraworld.com www.hazaragiradio.com www.hazara.org www.hazarapress.com www.hazaristan.net
[edit] Who are the Hazara?
According to this article:
| “ | One theory states that the Hazara seem to have mainly Mongolian origins with some Caucasoid admixture, as evidenced by physical attributes and parts of their culture and language. It is commonly believed that the Hazara are descendants of the army of Genghis Khan, which marched into the area in the 12th century, but there are also beliefs holding Hazaras as descendents of the Koshanis, the ancient dwellers of Afghanistan famous for constructing the Buddhas of Bamyan; or Hazaras as people of Turkic origin. Proponents of the Mongol view hold that many of the Mongol soldiers and their families settled in the area and remained there after the Mongol Empire dissolved in the 13th century, converting to Islam and adopting local customs (cultural diffusion).
However, the main Mongolian mixing theory is contested on the basis of historical events surrounding Genghis Khan's invasion of what today constitutes central Afghanistan. The invading Mongol armies encountered fierce resistance from the locals around Bamyan, who had Asian features like the invading Mongols. This suggests that people with Mongolian features inhabited central Afghanistan, possibly of Uyghur Turkic origin, long before Genghis Khan's invasion and probably arrived there in much earlier waves of migration out of Central Asia. |
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Therefore, similar to the Azerbaijani people, there are many different theories as to what they are. No one here is going to convince one another which one is right. Therefore, I think the solution is to just list them all. The Hazaras are related to a lot of people, and also note that it does not say "other Iranian peoples", but simply "Iranian peoples" (it does not imply which group they belong to). —Khoikhoi 20:33, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
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- Hmm, It's ok with me, I see but I think it's one of Khosrow II's and Tajik's Iranian propoganda. I'm chafed to see "Iranian related" stuffs everywhere about Turkic peoples, Turks, Turkey, Turkish history, Turkic history. -Zaparojdik 23:50, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
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- This is hilarious. People like you claim Azari's to be Turkic becuase of the language they speak, but when it comes to Hazara's who speak Persian and practice Iranian culture, you refuse to accept them as Iranics... This is hilarious, please Zaparojdik, go edit the the pages of all the Turkic peoples who live west of Central Asia, who arent ethnic Turks (Azari's, Turks from Turkey, European Turks, etc...) and take out the Turkic references to them, because they too are only linguistically Turkic and not ethnically.Khosrow II 21:09, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] Turk Iranian or Mongol
Hazaras are primarily Mongol if not exclusively. Its a bit obvious if you happen to know a few. Theres a large set of common vocabulary between Hazaras and Mongols, which do not exist in Turk Persian or other languages. It is also quite unlikely that a branch of Mongols seperated and settled in central Afghanistan at any time before Genghis' time since you do not see anything Mongolian in any other people beside Hazaras, who first made an appearance around 1550. Theres a painting online of Mongol armies being defeated and driven out of Iran by Shah Abbas, with the Mongol leader being an actual 'Uzbek'. It is also interesting that the Uzbeks do not have the Mongol vocabulary and culture that Hazaras do.
Hazaras are not pure Mongols and that is evident as well. They're more hairy and caucasian, some being significantly dark skinned than Mongols. However the poorer and more remote Hazaras have extremely Asian phenotypes that cannot be confused with Chinese or Uzbek, such as Dai Kundi and Dai Zangi Hazaras. This disqualifies Hazaras from being an indigenous population. However there is an obvious motivation for Hazaras to present themselves as indigenous as the 'right of land' is being fought out with other people. This is not a bad thing since both other groups, Tajik and Pashtuns have sources well outside of present day Afghanistan (Persian, Jewish, Greek, Dravidian).
As far as the population percentages are concerned, remember every side has a major motivation to overrepresent themselves, both currently and retroactively. A proper census is the only way, anything else is speculation. And reading numbers from historic sources, remember most of the text produced was by Pashtuns upto early 20th century, then it was Tajiks. Hazaras have only recently made big appearances in the literary scene (thus the jump to 25% or more suddenly from 9%). A Pashtun minister in Pakistan recently claimed Hazaras are 2% in Afghanistan, while I've heard of more than 50%. Hazaras are definitely at LEAST 11.9% since Hizb Wahdat took that many votes in the recent elections, and many Hazaras were with the Khalili group voting for Karzai, while no non-Hazara would ever vote for Mohaqiq (being a Hazara Nationalist). Mohaqiq got 11.9%. To counter this argument, its possible many Pashtuns in the south did not vote out of protest, inflating non Pashtun numbers.
Another important issue are the Chahar Aimag Hazaras. They may not be big in numbers, but have been classified as a seperate group in an effort to weaken the Hazara electorate. Most Chahar Aimags identify themselves as Hazaras and actually have a stronger Mongol phenotype than the average Hazara. There are also Turkmen Hazaras (not Turkmens) who are classified as Turkmens rather than Hazaras despite their own claims of identity. Together these groups would barely add 5% to the Hazara population, but are important in the integrity of the identity.
Lastly Hazaragi is spoken by approximately as many people as there are Hazaras. While there are Hazaras in and around Mazar and Kabul who speak Dari, there are populations of Sayeds and Kandaharis living among Hazaras who speak Hazaragi. The Sayeds are another topic of discussion as their identity is hazy. Most self-identify as Arabs, but have developed Mongol phenotypes and culture, and are completely integrated with Hazara populations. During periods of drought and persecution, many Hazaras took on Sayed identities (known as Shash-par, derogatory) as Sayeds would be given greater protection by the population on the account of being 'Holy'. Thus not all Sayeds, sometimes classified as Arabs, are Arabs. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.54.180.119 (talk • contribs) 14:00, 10 October 2006.
[edit] Origin of Hazara word?
It is most likely the word Kidara has evolved to present day Hazara. Kidara empire which rose to power after Kushan empire declined around 4th AD after invasions from east and west.
"Hazar" does mean thousand in Persain but when "ra" added in the end, then the word Hazara does not make noun, adjective or anything else gramaticaly in Persian language.
The other thing very amazed me when i compared Hazara physical features to other Central Asian Turkic peoples including Mongols. I found Hazaras resemble more to Uyghurs than any other groups, specially Hazaras from Ghazni province in Afghanistan.
I have found even some common words with Uyghurs, English Hazaragi Uyghurs,respectively. father, atty, atta. mother, aby, appa. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 136.186.1.196 (talk) 15:45, 19 October 2006
[edit] Hazaras are Mongol and its not a theory
Its amazing that after the round of DNA tests as reported in Time, after the lists and lists of common words with Mongolian, after the comparisons of rugs and yurt designs and old stories and other historical proof like the Babarnama, people still think and insist Hazaras are either Turkic or Kushan. It must be the same person who is insisting on Hazara.org's guestbook that Hazaras are Turkic. If Hazaras were Turkic, they would be closer to Uzbeks who are neighbors. Moreover the overwhelming proof of Hazaras being Mongol would not be there.
Of course its possible and likely that Hazaras have some Turkic mixture, but the culture, language, DNA tests of Quetta Hazaras, older Hazaragi names and written historical proof are all overwhelmingly pointing to the fact that Hazaras are the very army of Genghis Khan and are primarily and paterally Mongol, especially Khalkha Mongol (the 40 nations from eastern Mongolia). Even the Hazara subnation names have stayed the same like Dai Kundi Dai Zangi Chahar and Aimag. This discussion is so 1970s. PHd papers have been published and historical notes and even paintings have been discovered showing Hazaras as Mongols leaving Iran towards Khorasan.
So please stop spamming online sites trying to prove Hazaras are anything but Mongol, unless you have any pointers and proof otherwise. This theory should also be removed from the wiki text, but I'd invite further discussion first. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.197.228.61 (talk) 10:33, 27 October 2006
Whichever origin Turk or Mongol or both, Hazaras are very proud of themselves today, most Pan-Turks accept them like brother and sister among Turks despite they speak Hazaragi a dialict of Farsi, although langugae is not very important and they cab learn Turkic languages whenever they want to,more than 20% Turkic words make up their language already.
[edit] Sunni Hazaras
There are many sunni Hazaras like Aimaks and Hazaras in north eastern Hazarjat, sunni Hazaras associate and blur themselves with Turkmen and Uzbeks rather than Tajiks and Pashtuns.
[edit] Hazaras call themselves Azra
All Hazaras call themselves Azra. When it comes to writing and interactoin with other peoples then Hazaras use Hazara to be understood better by others.
I suggest it is necessary to make a note on this matter on the main article. Thank you.
[edit] Massacre of Hazaras by taliban
During taliban era hazaras were massacred in mass numbers by taliban. Taliban are slaves of others, These taliban are so idiot and narrow minded they are no more than thieves and beggers.
