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Archive: 6/03–8/05
Archive 1: 9/05–1/06
Archive 2: 2/06–12/06
Archive 3: 1/07–26/3/07
[edit] Early years of his childhood (1685–1703)
Beginning of the 4th paragraph: "At the age of 14, Johann Sebastian was awarded a choral scholarship, with his older school friend, Georg Erdmann, to study at the prestigious St Michael’s School in Lüneburg, not far from the largest city in Germany, the northern seaport of Hamburg." Currently, Berlin (A=891.82 km², Pop=3,405,300 (10/2006)) is the largest city in Germany. Hamburg (A=755 km², Pop=1,750,194 (31. Aug. 2006)) is the 2nd largest. If you have a citation for Hamburg being the largest city in Germany in 1699, then it needs to read: largest city in Germany at the time or similar. Feetonthedesk 23:50, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
- I disagree that the change in wording would be necessary; it's obvious that it means the largest city at the time. HOWEVER, I think there's substantial doubt about that claim. The Hamburg article says "Hamburg experienced its fastest growth during the second half of the 19th century", suggesting it wasn't so huge in the 1600s, although Berlin was apparently devastated by the Thirty Years' War earlier in the century. Neither article Hamburg nor Berlin provides historical demographic data, although one could infer that Berlin's population was around 30,000 in 1700. Of course Germany wasn't really a country the way it is now, so the comparisons may be meaningless. Maybe we should give it a {{citation}} tag or something. —Wahoofive (talk) 00:27, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
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- I did a little bit of digging around too. The online Grove article on Hamburg gives a population of 70,000 by 1680. Leipzig was considerably smaller (around 30,000 in 1750); their article on Berlin gives no figures, but mentions the population and wealth grew rapidly after the Thirty Years' War. I think it's plausible that Hamburg was the largest city in "Germany", whatever that means in the context of the time, but there must still be a better cite out there. Antandrus (talk) 00:36, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
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- I've been digging around in German language articles and can't find anything to explicitly confirm or confute the claim. As Wahoofive states, there are implications that the Berlin population around 1700 was approx. 30,000. Germany in the context of the time was a "patchwork carpet" (Flickenteppich) loosely held together by the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation ("one of strangest political structures in the world") of which the Free Imperial and Hanseatic City of Hamburg was certainly a member. Given the adverbial mode and the context of the claim in an article about J.S. Bach I am inclined to ask whether the refutable claim would not better be replaced with something irrefutable like Free Imperial and/or Hanseatic? Feetonthedesk 23:05, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] This "three Bs" thing
It weakens the impact of the previous clause, and raises the question among non-experts as to why the alphabet should be worth mentioning here in the lead. Who are the "three Cs"? And now we have "is regarded as" twice in two sentences. Most unsatisfactory. Tony 08:21, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
- I agree. I suppose if anyone were asked "who are the 3 B's" they could come up with the answer, but I wouldn't say that it's a phrase which has achieved universal currency. I think Bach's achievements can stand as a sufficient justification of his eminence as a composer, without adding this tag. --Stephen Burnett 11:42, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
