Talk:Kraftwerk

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[edit] NAMECHECKED?

namechecked in The Big Lebowski? Where? When? Nevermind namechecking, someone needs to do their fact-checking. There was a spoofy band in the movie called Autobahn. Is that supposed to constitute a "namecheck"? Was there some namecheck that nobody else knows about? Get your facts straight, or I'm gonna punch you in the face. (yes because it is totally possible to do this over the internet)128.119.232.191 04:48, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Namechecked is of course the wrong word, but I do think that perhaps a "references to kraftwerk in pop culture" section might be handy. It could cover silly spoofy things like Lebowski, the theme from "Sprockets", refs in the Simpsons, tribute/parody/clone bands, etc etc. --Nulldevice 18:12, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] live photos

currently the article has 4 live photos from 2004 ... any chance of having one from pre-Autobahn, one from the classic line-up, and one from the modern incarnation, as per the live section of the article?--feline1 16:49, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Kraftwerk's Influence

What sort of cretinous noncesense is it to say that "Kraftwerk have influenced popular culture to the extent that they have been referenced in the Big Lebowski?!?! Since when was some minor hit Holywood film any sort of measure of influencing popular culture?! (or ANYTHING much on that list) Kraftwerk's influence has been primarily on musical and sonic FORM.

[edit] Stage shows

I'm not very happy with today's new "stage shows" additions - far too much POV stuff (eg Robots being the "highlight" of a show?! It's not an enclyclopedia's job to tell people what their favourite bit of the show was - personally I far prefer to watch the human band members on stage. Also there is far too much waffle and speculation about who plays what. Firstly, there is nothing whatsoever remarkable in the modern day and age about pop bands playing to backing tracks or sequences! Why remark on Kraftwerk's use of it? Secondly, having been to Kraftwerk shows recently, it was fairly easy to spot who was playing what, by watching their hands on the controllers and hearing what was coming out of the speaker. I don't see what the mystery is. They've also explained in interviews how they sequence things live (choosing different sequences on the fly) - perfectly commonplace and ordinary with today's equipment. ..... in short, this should be an encyclopedia article with an objective, comparative view of what Kraftwerk do, not parroting fan-babble discourse.--feline1 12:31, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

Well I finally got off my ass and re-wrote the live section. Help with tidying appreciated!--feline1 17:10, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

where would one find this updated live section that feline wrote?

it forms the "live shows" section of the Kraftwerk page! --feline1 23:27, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Concise informative page of great value. Thanks to all who contributed to it. I heard these guys perform late last century at the UEA and was amazed that they got an audience from 15 to 55 dancing ! --The Norwikian

[edit] 'unnice' reference to Krautrock

Although Kraftwerk are a very important part of the German Music scene, I do not like the idea of them being a part of Krautrock. Very often Krautrock is associated with 'stupid', 'imitation' or 'unemotional'. And Kraftwerk were innovators. Maybe we should change that reference. --mac_c 15:18, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Well, I've never seen Krautrock described as stupid or imitative - if it has been, that's just the opinion of those so-describing it, and shouldn't be taken as The Absolute Truth Of The Matter. In any case, I do believe that Kraftwerk's stuff at least prior to Autobahn is frequently associated with Krautrock (they were produced by Conny Plank, after all). The "See also: Krautrock" which is in the article right now is the bare minimum mention we could have of Krautrock; there should be more, eventually. --Camembert

Full ACK! I have not seen it like that before. Thank you! --mac_c 15:57, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] radio station ad

The link to "WXJL Tonight Radio: internet radio station playing electro, electropop, electroclash, euroclash, synthpop & other electronix!" is an irrelevant ad. I'm removing it. --Twinxor 17:05, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Protection

I have protected this page, for a while, to let the edits cool down for awhile. I'll unprotect it at a later time or upon request. -- AllyUnion (talk) 04:59, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Unprotecting the page. -- AllyUnion (talk) 21:02, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Incorrect information?

Please check over the last three edits. -- AllyUnion (talk) 06:06, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Hmm, you mean abou that date? I'm not very sure about it, but from what I can gather from the official site, I think it should be 2004. I'm reverting the article to that, so if anyone thinks otherwise, that could be discussed here. By the way, about that external link, do you think it should go, too?--Kaonashi 06:42, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I have little trust for some anonymous editors. Simply because half of them are vandals. -- AllyUnion (talk) 08:35, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Discography format

I contest formal parts of the recent edits (diff here) to the discography by User:Snow1215. I prefer to warn and talk about it first instead of starting a revert war:

I had put the English titles first, with mention of the original German titles; this was reverted. This is an English article, the articles titles/URLs are in English: the discog should list English titles first. (Isn't there already an official policy on that?)

All added singles have been predefined as wikilinks to non-existing pages, which seems crazy to me. Wikipedia isn't an exhaustive database for every single in existence, and most or all of them don't need/deserve their own page, yet the red links just invite anyone to do just that.

I had reformated all entries with the (year) in front of titles; this was reverted. But the years first is a clearer format (all years in a column), as well as allowing to better see a band's activity at a glance.

The change from album title Kraftwerk to Kraftwerk 1 is apocryphal and revisionist.

The change from "Tone Float - by then Organisation (band)" to simply "Tone Float - Organisation" is uninformative because only fans will understand it's not a double name or an alternative album name.

I intend to fix/revert the above points, which I currently see as problems or lesser versions. Comments or suggestions?

Also, on another level, I object to the edit's deceptive summary "added images and singles", when it was more like "added images and singles, reworked discog format (German title first, years last)".

←^#6_{talk 21:06, 14 May 2005 (UTC)}

I have no problem with reverting back to the old way. My apologies. Note: I will Wikify the song "Autobahn" as I do think it is worthy of its own page, since it is such a landmark song in music history (i.e. It is #16 on Q Magazine's "100 Songs That Changed The World") Snow1215 12:04, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Kraftwerk comparable to Beatles?

YES THEY ARE COMPARABLE TO THE BEATLES, THE KRAFTWERK INFLUENCE IN ELECTRONIC MUSIC IS ENORMOUS, IMPRESSIVE, YOU CAN TALK TO ANY GENRE BASED ELECTRONIC SUBJECT, BAND OR ORGANIZATION, FROM HOUSE TO TRANCE, FROM PSYCHO TO DRUM AND BASS, FROM POP TO INDUSTRIAL, KRAFTWERK IS WIDELY RESPECTED BY THE ELECTRONIC SCENE, THE BEATLES WERE A GROUP THAT DEFINED POPULAR MUSIC, AND THATS WHAT THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO DO, SELL, SELL A LOT, THEY ARE THE BAND THAT SYMBOLISE THE WORD "MAINSTREAM" THEY GOT INTO EVERBODYS HOME, AND THEY WERE HEARD BY ALMOST EVERY PERSON IN THE WORLD, THATS WHY THEY ARE THE GREATEST POP GROUP EVER, KRAFTWERK WAS NOT DESIGNED FOR THAT, THEY ARE THE PIONEERS OF ELECTRONIC MUSIC, THE CREATORS, THEY MADE A REVOLUTION IN THE WAY OF MAKING MUSIC, THEY CONTRIBUTED HUGELY IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF ELECTRONIC MUSICAL EQUIPMENT, THEY DEVELOPED THE USE OF PERFECT TIME SEQUENCING IN MUSICAL FORMS, THEY ARE THE PERFECCIONISM IN THE EXPRESSION OF MUSIC, THEY ARE PURE ART, AND THEIR INFLUENCE IS ENORMOUS, MANY OF THE ELECTRONIC MUSICIANS TODAY HAVENT HEARD ABOUT KRAFTWERK BUT THEY OWE THEM EVERYTHING, HUTTERS AND SCHNEIDERS GENIUS IS EQUAL OR GREATER THAN MC CARTNEYS OR LENNONS, I LOVE THE BEATLES THEY ARE GREAT, I REALLY REALLY REALLY LOVE THEM, BUT ITS REAL AND COHERENT TO PUT KRAFTWERK AND THEM IN THE SAME PLANE, WE MUSICIANS OWE THEM A LOT.

In what imaginable way? The line in the intro compares to them to the Beatles in terms of influence in the second half of the 20th century. In simple terms, they clearly had no appreciable influence over music before they were founded.

Beyond this confusion, I don't see how Kraftwerk influencing electronic music's extension into more of the mainstream is anywhere close to the influence the Beatles had. There are several bands listed that note Kraftwerk's influence on them - most of which are in the broad electronic/techno category. The Beatles influenced a much wider variety of musicians - and ones which are much better known. Sampling of Beatles songs and covering is also significantly greater than for Kraftwerk. None of this is designed to detract from the real influence and talent of Kraftwerk. Rkevins82 23:28, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

I disagree - in terms of their influence on musical/sonic/timbral form, I find Kraftwerk's influence much greater than that of The Beatles - the Beatles fundamentally always used the traditional 'beat group' line up of vocals/guitar/bass/drums/piano. They experimented in the studio in their later years, dubbing on the odd cello or sitar, but since string sections and Indian music already existed, this was more cultural appropriation than anything new... Between 'Autobahn' and 'Computerwelt' Kraftwerk devised an entirely new musical sound and form, which never existed before, and is now ubiquitous.--feline1 01:50, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

LOL. How anyone can say that Kraftwerk are not influential is completely beyond me!

That's not at all what I said. Read my post and see that I was simply commenting that I did not believe them to be as influential as the Beatles. Rkevins82 07:17, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

And I, for one, think Rkevins82 is right on. The Beatles influence was far broader in all aspects of culture. In any event, the statement is an opnion, not a fact, and since it's not coming from a notable music or pop-culture expert, it's original research. I've revised the article accordingly. Skyraider 16:44, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

It's arguable just how much influece each band had, but it's pretty solid that KW had a lot of influence in a lot of unexpected places. Hiphop owes a debt to Kraftwerk, certainly, and not just because "Planet Rock" sampled the heck out of TEE. That fact may be of some relevance. --Nulldevice 15:07, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

"After all, Kraftwerk are one of the few bands in history who genuinely bear comparison to the Beatles. Not because of their sound or their image, but because, like the Beatles, it is impossible to overstate their influence on modern music." - The Guardian [1]

"‘The Beatles and Kraftwerk’ may not have the ring of ‘The Beatles and the Stones’, but, nonetheless, these are the two most important bands in music history." - NME [2]

I reverted your edits, you've got your evidence right here. ;) --Andylkl ^(talk) 16:49, August 25, 2005 (UTC)

You've documented that the opinion has been expressed in notable publications. That does not change the opinion into a fact. If you want to quote those citations in the article, that's fine, but the article itself should not be endorsing an opinion.Skyraider 01:50, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

I've added back the mention with reference (and reworded it a bit so that it's stating that the opinion came from The Guardian and NME). That should be fine now. --Andylkl ^(talk) 08:38, August 26, 2005 (UTC)

Skyraider, to be blunt, I think you're talking rubbish! ;-) It *is* a widely documented FACT that countless musicians have testified to the influence Kraftwerk had on them. It's nothing to do with the "opinions" of stupid music journalists. --feline1 13:51, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

You're entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine. If you paid any attention to my edits you would have seen that I never disputed that Kraftwerk was influential (my edits preserved that fact). But "influence" in and of itself is not objectively quantifiable. As such, any statement that "A's influence is comparable to B's" is an opinion. I'ts perfectly okay to include the FACT that a particular opinion has been expressed by one or more notable sources. (Andylkl's edit is fine, IMO) It is NOT okay for a Wikipedia article to embrace an opinion. (See Wikipedia:NPOV ) Skyraider 16:44, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

you're trying to tell me that all those thousands of musicians who testify that Kraftwerk were a big influence on them aren't actually sure about it? that they might be mistaken? that it's not a fact that they were influenced by them, but merely their own opinion that they were influenced by them?! I find your reasoning rather ahine. Anyways - I think it is a nice context setter for the start of the article - if someone who knew very little about pop music happened to read about Kraftwerk, it would be a useful piece of info for them, that, within popular culture, Kraftwerk and The Beatles are generally regarded by just about everyone as having been immensely influential. For anyone more familiar with pop music, it's just a truism anyways.--feline1 21:00, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

I like the statement as it stands now. By adding the phrase "considered by some" (which they are, as is Reffed), wikipedia remains NPOV. Is this deigned ok by everyone? Jdcooper 15:33, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

A-OK here. :) --Andylkl ^(talk) 15:52, August 30, 2005 (UTC)

It's rather likely that Kraftwerk's early use of synth and sequencing technology and their production techniques were influential in a way that could be compared to the Beatles' lyrical and melodic contributions to western pop music. For example, just as Lonnie Donegan and Buddy Holly inflenced the Beatles, Kraftwerk influenced thousands of bands and radio programmers. Sales and celebrity are not the only benchmarks of cultural influence. Anyway the notion isn't as farfetched as it seems. Also, the trajectory of pop music in Europe has at times been different than in North America. Editors may want to avoid being too protective of the cultural dominance of icons like the Beatles and Elvis Presley. Both had enormous impact and made music beloved of millions, but they weren't functioning in a cultural void, etc and their live/visual presentations and charisma as performers had something to do with it too. Wyss 14:03, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

The statmetns to this effect in the opening hae been pared down some, I partially reverted them and added 3 more refrences (I found three more that I did not add though one of them is not usable since its in romanian and on a buliten board). From the looks of it there are any number more to be found with little effort. Infact it seems to me that it might be an intresting expirement to see if there has been an article written about them in the mainstream press or music press in the last 10 years that does not make the "as influential as the beatles" claim. Dalf | Talk 06:24, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

The problem is more that it's a rather vague, handwaving statement - what does it really mean in terms of tangible effects? We're in the realm of general aesthetic ideas, inspirations, respect for them as artists... Best not to make too much of a meal of it, really, I feel. The current couple of lines are fine. --feline1 09:47, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Read some of the articles I added (I have about 10 more I did not add Google is cool), most of them are not vague at all. The reason so many people object to this is they misread (and sometime people misstate the claim) to say "same cultural, popular influence" which is absolutely silly. The claim is specifically impact on the musical form something which not only objective. Most of the linked articles enumerate the musical genera which find their origins influenced in part of in majority from Kraftwerk. This can be supported with historical examples from the origins of the genera and as bands listing them as influential. The truth is that in terms of modern music within the last 10 years Kraftwerk probably have a recognizable impact which is considerably higher than the Beatles simply because of the popularity of electronic music in recent times, as well as the number of years diluting the Beatles impact. The Beatles impact on modern music is significant but a major part of it is by proxy. It is some what like saying "the music of the 60's and 70's influence modern music". Additionally the Beatles influence was primarily on Rock music which has been most of the mainstream until recently so the fact that Kraftwerk's music actually lead to a number of new musical forms was not as significant until the resulting new genera of music became more mainstream. Now of course all of this is just my opinion and would constitute original research if I put it in the article without linking the hell out of it. However, the claim in the article is that music critics and the mainstream press frequently make the claim, the article does not attempt to justify the claim as I have just done, as such the 5 references to press/music critics making and in some cases defending or explaining the claim should be more than enough to meet wikipedias verifiability standards. If not like I said I have about 10 more I could add but I got sick of sorting out the {{cite *}} templates, and did not want to have a long link of references at the end of the first paragraph. Dalf | Talk 01:00, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Also note that I reverted it to your version, I did not revert your edit (here I was reverting the eidt after yours further equivicating on the topic (changed often to sometimes). though I admit that was and still am slightly thinking about reverting back to the older version since it is "widely acknowledged" and can be documented as such. Dalf | Talk 01:10, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Hey, I don't really disagree! If you read my comments on this subject above (from 2005) they basically say the same thing.--feline1 09:22, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kraftwerk is/Kraftwerk are?

Following on from edits made on July 5th and 6th, is there a policy as to how articles should refer to bands in general terms? In US English I think one would say "Kraftwerk is a German avant-garde musical group which has made significant contributions" while in UK English it would be "Kraftwerk are a German avant-garde musical group who have made significant contributions" - with the first example referring to the group as a distinct and impersonal item and the second as the people making up the group.

Are Americans really that bone-headed in their use of language?!? /shudders/ In proper English, band names are plural nouns. Any Americans who disagree, I shall poke them with a big pair of SCISSOR and then we'll see who's wearing the TROUSER. :-)--feline1 14:14, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Yet another uppity Brit commenting on American English. Don't get your PANTY up in a bunch about it. UK english is just as rife with ridiculous spellings and nonsensical grammar rules as US English. A pair of scissor?? Using 'pair' with a singular noun is just stupid. In terms of bands, the best way to deal with this situation would be to use "is" if the band name is singualar and "are" if it is plural. Anonymous. 10:30, 14 August, 2005 (UTC)

No, you eejit, we don't say "a pair of scissor" in the British Isles - it was employing some hilarious parody. And it's not pants, it's KNICKERS :0) --feline1 12:00, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Just don't say that word with a stuffy nose when you're in Harlem :( --I am not good at running 20:54, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Harlem? sorry, I don't travel to Holland much ;-) --feline1 12:15, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Like Queen, Black and Elbow? --194.131.108.2 08:17, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

Yes. Queen are doing a reunion tour. Elbow are releasing their new album etc. Propose that for American groups, the article obeys American grammar rules, British/European bands the article obeys British grammar rules. Thoughts? (jdcooper forgot to sign edit)

Sounds reasonable. If the group is American, the article should be US English. If British, the article should be in British English. It makes perfect sense. --Der Sporkmeister 13:54, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

Yeah but Kraftwerk are German, so this doesn't help us much LOL --feline1 14:19, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

I think articles on European bands should obey British rules, Americans can have Japanese and South American... Jdcooper 23:27, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

Was going to make a snarky comment about americans perhaps not getting the better end of that but, I suppose I am not that bothered about is/are distinctions and it looks like this wikipedia does not caire either as long as we are consistent. Dalf | Talk 08:56, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Tour song

I found this info at Tour de France (disambiguation), but didn't know where it could fit into Wikipedia:

"Tour de France is also the title of a Kraftwerk song about the race itself. It was released as a single during the 1980s. The song uses "musical onomatopoeia" of bicyclers breathing hard in order to recreate the struggle of riding hard during the race"

--Commander Keane 08:43, September 5, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Supposed new album "Evolution"

Someone posted a photo on a German forum today (http://www.elektropolis.de/audio_sektion/monkeymachine.jpg) that parodies one of the images from the Minimum Maximum book and DVD. As a result people are already talking of the new "Evolution" album... Someone's even updated the studio albums list in the Wikipedia article – BUT is there more official evidence than just a funny image? A press release, advert or promo material? Ricadus 00:10, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Removed. This is most likely a hoax IMHO; no mention on their official site nor EMI's, and not even slightly credible rumours on Usenet or the Antenna mailing list (thread). Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. — Peter L <talk|contribs> 22:53, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I doubted they'd release any new album in April – too many spring classic cycle races take place that month! (Paris–Roubaix, etc) 80.1.224.12 21:35, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Cool pic though.57.66.51.165 14:31, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't know...maybe---it was quoted in a newspager, here's the scans:

http://www.elektropolis.de/audio_sektion/fin1.jpg http://www.elektropolis.de/audio_sektion/fin2.jpg

hmmm?.....wouldn't a newspaper try and at least get some source?

Meh, perhaps they were using Wikipedia as one of their sources (it is dated January 5). :-/ Anyway, Kraftwerk fans of all people should have learned the lesson not to believe in a new album until they're holding it in their own hands. By the way, there's a new "Kraftwerk" single in the werks for you according to this thread. — Peter L <talk|contribs> 21:45, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Founder members

"... became widely known as a quartet consisting of Wolfgang Flür and Karl Bartos alongside the founding members, one of which named Marko Slyfieldus, and Mikaelus Swaders. "

I've deleted the words in bold from this sentence, because:

1. the awful grammar leaves a lot of doubt as to the intended meaning.

2. a "quartet" is in my experience only a quartet if it has four people in it.

3. The two extra names in it are not mentioned anywhere else in the article, neither is there a Wikipedia page on them. This leads me to suspect that they don't exist in reality, and have been added by the anonymous "contributor" at 86.3.239.197 as an act of vandalism. If anyone knows better, feel free to modify.

--Stephen Burnett 10:26, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Don't worry, you did the right thing, it was obviously just ludicrous vandalism.--feline1 08:57, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unnice reference to Krautrock?

Someone needs to do some research on Krautrock. Kraftwerk were Krautrock on their first three albums. This is a FACT! No one I know and nowhere I have seen does anyone say Krautrock were immitations of other music and stupid. These are not facts. I remember learning about the difference between fact and opinion in about third grade. Whoever posted about Krautrock being stupid should have their mothers turn off their internet until they finish their homework. Wikipedia is about Facts, if I ever see any article about any subject saying anything is stupid and not stating that someone (worthy of being mentioned) had the opinion, as a worthy fact about their opinion, I will immediately delete it. Let's be objective not subjective... oh wait, those words are too big for you, someone explain them please. :-( 'I think Krautrock is stipid, therefore I do not like Kraftwerk being associated with it.' That's dumb as hell. I could easily say 'I like America, I do not like George W. Bush, so any reference to George W. Bush as an American should be deleted because they are unnice.' I feel that way so you should do what I say because of it. Shut the hell up. Maybe you should leave the Kraftwerk page alone and go to the Wictionary and look up the words 'fact' and 'opinion'. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.188.117.13 (talk • contribs) 22:12, 13 May 2006 (UTC).

Remember to stay cool. Musical genres are notoriously subjective; it's hard to talk about them without injecting some opinion. Also, I'm not sure where you're seeing people putting down Krautrock – the Krautrock article notes that the term was originally deragatory but is not considered pejorative today. Twinxor t 08:13, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I see you were responding to a comment earlier on the talk page. Just keep in mind that everyone has different opinions about music and appropriate terminology. Twinxor t 08:18, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Are the Kraftwerk fascist eurocentric?

"So you see another group, like Tangerine Dream, although they are German they have an English name, so they create onstage an Anglo–American identity, which we completely deny. We want the whole world to know that we are from Germany, because the German mentality—which is more advanced—will always be part of our behavior. We create out of the German language, the mother language, which is very mechanical; we use it as the basic structure of our music." (Hütter)

Are the Kraftwerk fascist eurocentric?Brian W 03:03, 5 June 2006 (UTC))

No. They like German. Twinxor t 06:55, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Quite. "Fascist" means hating things different to yourself. This is not the same as liking/reclaiming your own culture.--feline1 09:53, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

The Man Machine was the first record album I've ever bought, in 1978-9. I wish I would have never done it. I wish I had bought a Tangerine Dream album. English is a Germanic language, so I can't see what's wrong with them. Being a half German, I'm very proud of my backgroung, but, luckily, I have no hatred against Anglo-American culture. Some of the greatest influences on modern music (all genres) come from Manfred Eicher's ECM, and (former) Peter Baumann's Private Music. But fanatic fans of Aphex Twin (if not himself or some of his friends) are invading the web trying to rewrite history, by inflating the importance of the so called Intelligent dance music and its roots,such as the Kratwerk and Klaus Schulze. Brian W

Hütter never said he "hated" Anglo-American culture. Also that quote comes from a famous interview that Lester Bangs did with them in Creem magazine on the 1975 US Autobahn tour. You can be your boots he, ahem, recontextualized the words slightly, to make it all "oooh! nazis!" and controversial. As you may well be aware, post world war II, German culture was in tatters from the Nazis and was getting replaced with bland americanisms - krautrock bands were naturally keen to redevelop a non-fascist German identity.--feline1 10:24, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I've never heard this stupid word -Krautrock- before 2004. In 1978-81, before the New Wave boom, in Europe we used the term "electronic rock" to refer to Kraftwerk, Neu, La Dusseldorf, Tubeway Army, Ultravox, Brian Eno's non -Ambient albums, Peter Gabriel's 2nd, 3rd and 4th albums, and even some ZZTop's albums in 82-84, Neil Young's work Trans of that era and the now forgotten french band the Rockets

I forgot to tell that the term "Electronica" is the nth stupid faked-diplomatic attempt to describe "electronic rock and pop" with a spanish sounding word. Brian W 10:50, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

With all due respect, you are beginning to descend into barely intelligable pigeon English. Which tends to make native speakers suspect that your concerns arise more out of your lack of understanding of what you are reading, rather than any actual real problem! --feline1 11:20, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

You are ridicolous. Native speakers of English can understand me. Why you don't simply admit that I'm right? Brian W 11:31, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Sir, you sound to me like you are drunk whilst sitting in front of a computer. I suggest you log off and go sober up.--feline1 11:54, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

You're likely right. The user in question called me a Nazi, accused me of being Italian (how is that an insult? Really...), is attempting to combine all EDM related articles under a term that has no common usage ("Club music"), and then proceeds to tell people to learn English when they, as native speakers, can't understand his incoherent rants. He also has a funny idea of concensus, and some strange victimisation complex that makes him think that anything thats not championing his views is Eurocentric, or as he changed to overnight, UK centric.

Thinking you're right when everyone else disagrees with you also suggests a terrible, terrible problem with comprehension. --Kiand 16:35, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Julian Cope wrote Krautrocksampler in the 90's, and NME had used the term "Deutsch rock" as far back as 1972. Krautrock is certainly not a new term, although admittedly bit silly. Also, I might be beating the horse by now, but I really don't see what you're upset about. Much of German culture in the 60's and 70's was an attempt to recreate a German identity after the Nazis. Look at the New German Cinema, for example. I see

Hütter's comments as being squarely within that ideal. Perhaps a bit bombastic, but hardly fascist. Deleuze 07:23, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, of course, you are free to continue pretending, after all, who cares of youngsters' music genres? Bye.Brian W 18:21, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

The music industry, who rely on them to stay in business. Who cares of your made up ones? You, and thats it. Additionally, you have no idea of what age I am nor any reason to call me a "youngster" --Kiand 19:20, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Everyone, please be reminded that the talk page is for discussion about the article itself, don't stray into personal attacks. Btw Brian, what point are you trying to prove here? --Andylkl ^{[ talk! | c ]} 19:58, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

A good question what is the point here? I will try a summary:

Hmmm, they are Germans and wearing ties - so, they must be fascists! Furthermore they are singing in different languages - so, they are obviously eurocentristic..oh...Japanese isn’t an European language...who cares! Now, here comes the interesting news: The user doesn’t like Kraftwerk but Richard David James ( alias “Aphex Twin” ) hangs around in Wikipedia and tries to re-write music history in favour of his pet band Kraftwerk! He writes that Kraftwerk had some real influence on electronic music. What a weirdo!

This is strange stuff indeed --Sushi Leone 15:01, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Speak and spell

I corrected this page a little while ago, The Speak and Spell was not used for the artificial speech in Computerwelt, it was a TI Language Translator. I can quote a source. The entry has now reverted to saying Speak and Spell again! Would anyone object too much if I corrected the page again?

no-one will object if you quote your source! If you don't quote it, don't be surprised if you get reverted again - wikipedia has to be verifiable, you see.--feline1 15:01, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

A sample of the Speak & Spell is used at the start of Heimcomputer/Home Computer, I believe — that distinctive/annoying bleepy melody that was some kind of audio cue device for the intended kiddie user. --Ricadus 17:38, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for that! I've included a couple of hyperlinks to external pages that mention this. --Shalroth

[edit] The film 'The Birds' (1963)

I have heard that the almost imperceptible high-pitched electronic noise that accompanies this film (apparently used to subconsciously raise tension in the viewer) in place of a music track was 'composed' and recorded by Florian Schneider-Esleben and Ralf Hütter, and was the first work of theirs of any kind to be published in any way. They would've been very young at the time (teenagers I imagine) and the film was made 7 years before Kraftwerk's first LP. Is there any truth to this? Regards Martyn Smith 18:44, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

No this is complete bollocks. Why not look up the wikipedia article on The Birds ??--feline1 19:13, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] No mention of the influence on hip-hop?

Seems to me as a fan of hip-hop, their beats have been sampled admittedly (by memory) by huge hip-hop legends such as Afrika Bambaattaa (Trans-Europe Express and Planet Rock), and piece sampled by Dr. Dre. This is mentioned on Afrika Bambaattaa's page, but not mentioned as far as I can tell here. I don't contribute much to Wikipedia, but coming across this page, I found it kind of odd while listening to "Hall of Mirrors" and being amazed how much it sounds like one of Dr. Dre's samples.

I think it would be a nice tribute somewhere to mention some of the groups they specifically influence, if, of course, you can find sources from the artists themselves, or maybe some credits in hip-hop albums that point to this information. Good luck.

ERic 10:08, 15 January 2007 (UTC)Eric

[edit] The Mix is not a remix album!

It features digitally re-recorded versions of a selection of songs which had originally appeared on their earlier albums. I would remove the tag myself if I had access to the page.

I agree. It is nothing like any other ablum. CoolGuy 05:40, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

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