Talk:Meat

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Meat was the collaboration of the week for the week starting on February 26, 2006. For details on improvements made to the article, see history of past collaborations.

Meat is part of WikiProject Animal rights, a project to create and improve articles related to animal rights. If you would like to help, please consider joining the project. All interested editors are welcome.

Please help improve this article or section by expanding it. Further information might be found on the talk page or at requests for expansion. This article has been tagged since January 2007.

	To-do list for Meat:	edit  · history  · watch  · refresh
Support article with verifiable references! benefits from eating meat section on meat abstinance (vegetarianism, etc.) section on meat production (especially the "pitfalls" hormone, antibiotics enhancement, and on the other side bio production) summary of mad cow disease with link to article along with other disadvantages of meat info on dioxin contamination in meat much more detail on preparation consumption - we have a good paragraph, anyone know which countries eat the most meat?
Priority meat

Contents 1 more 2 Archives 3 Wikibooks:Meat 4 List about all the different types of meat 5 Introduction 6 linguistic issues 7 A question of Meat. 8 "Slab of meat" 9 Controversies 10 Topic to consider 11 Disputed sections 12 Good Article 13 Structure of article 14 Too much linky 15 Catholics eating Meat 16 Catholic Church distinction between meat and nonmeat 17 Removed 18 Grain fed vs. Grass fed red meat re: bowl cancer 19 Cannibalism 20 OFTEN 21 Manure? 22 Reasons 23 Consumption Graph

[edit] more

this topic realy needs more infos about meat production (especially the "pitfalls" hormone, antibiotics enhancement, and on the other side bio production), preparation (not to forget the hydrophile substances) and consumption (links on recipies)

and on the "Ethical and miscellaneous reasons" where are the citations on energy efficiancy(sic)? i dont know how to do a 'citation needed' tag:(--71.97.135.104 20:12, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Archives

Archived discussion can be found at Talk:Meat/Archive 1

[edit] Wikibooks:Meat

Meanwhile, for whatever undiscussed reason, it appears that the subject can now best be pursued at:

It seems that the parts of the topic that some felt would be best put into wikibooks have been moved there. My guess it that this was because the parts moved were how-to entries, which might be more book-like than encyclopedia like. Still, it seems to me wikibooks should offer more explanation for their actions.

Hans Joseph Solbrig 00:25, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] List about all the different types of meat

I am going to move the huge list to "List of types of meat" --Banana04131 02:39, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

You might want to just delete it instead. -Silence 04:15, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

It is kinda useless isn't it? --Banana04131 18:35, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Useful link [1]

I wouldn't say it's useless, since it gives an overview of what animals are consumed by humans; however, the classification used (terrestrial vs. "seafood") was not really helpful, since it creates problems with taxa such as mollusks that are represented in both, and it ignores freshwater species entirely!

So I suggest that the classification be taxonomic, not by locality. - Samsara _contrib ^talk 14:11, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree, with improvements it could be useful. For now, I'm just glad it's transferred out of this article, though. -Silence 14:43, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Agree. - Samsara _contrib ^talk 15:48, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Introduction

Our current introduction is factually different from the ine in 1911 EB which is as follows:

MEAT A word originally applied to food in general, and so still used in such phrases as "meat and drink"; but now except as an archaism, generally used of the flesh of certain domestic animals, slaughtered for humans food by butchers, "butcher's meat," as opposed to "game," that of wild animals, "fish" or "poultry." (Etomology follows)

This is very different from saying meat is all animal tissue. Does anyone know where that info came from? Does anyone object to taking it out? In food, meat is listed seperated from poultry and game also.--Birgitte§β ʈ Talk 19:05, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

On the other other hand Carnivore directs here so we also need to discuss meat as any sort of animal tissue. It seems as though meat has a different meaning in respect to the human diet as oppsed to any other creature. I will try and re-work the intro including all of this.--Birgitte§β ʈ Talk 20:22, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Carnivore should not redirect here. - Samsara _contrib ^talk 20:50, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Carnivore should not redirect here, but clearly meat should deal both with meat in reference to humans and in reference to life in general, not just one or the other; both cultural and biological information is relevant here, and both herbivorism and vegetarianism are alternative diets that need oppositional mentioning, the former in terms of ethics and social customs, the later in forms of the dietary basis of various groups of organisms. And in both cases, we need to clearly define what "meat" is from the getgo. A good starting definition to work from: "The edible flesh of animals, especially that of mammals as opposed to that of fish or poultry." From there, we go into the details and variants. -Silence 21:10, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

So sorry, Carnivore does not redirect here. I don't know why I phrased it like that. I meant that meat needs to be used to explain carnivores which goes against the defintion given by EB 1911. In the preceding comment I was thinking of removing that definition and seeing carnivores made me understand why that idea was wrong. I have just redone the intro before reading this. I hope it explains the two uses of the term more clearly.--Birgitte§β ʈ Talk 21:16, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] linguistic issues

• Inserted Comment Here is the dffs being disscused [2] &[3]

please do not remove the semantic faux pas statement on the use of the word meat. it is essential to understand the use and definition of the word meat in AMERICAN culture. if you need any academic information on this issue, let me know on the talk page BEFORE editing. thank you. dantedanti.

I removed the above statement in my re-working of the intro, based upon the entry in the 1911 Encyclopedia Britanica (See Talk:Meat#Introduction. Since they are not an American publication and were distinctly British in 1911, I thought that your information must be incorrect. I certainly am not trying to sneak in American culture. I simply found the above information which contradicted what article said and put my source on talk page before editing.

The paragragh makes no sense the way you have it now. It starts out with Meat in general is all animal tissue then after saying Within the human diet exclusivly, however meat has a more specific meaning. you have changed to repeat For the most part, it is the flesh of any animal. This makes no sense at all. Please fix it, or revert to before my changes. Also whenever reinserting something like this go ahead and post whatever academic information you have on talk page. If someone has changed it, you can assume they will want to see it and you need not wait for them to ask. I have no intention of further editing before we clear this up, which is why I am asking you to fix the current introduction.--Birgitte§β ʈ Talk 22:08, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Also I looked up the British equivilent of the Agriculture Department Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs under Diet and Nutrition publication #5 is titled Meat, poultry and game. So this does not seem to be just an American usage. I really do not understand your statement about the usage being a faux pas. It seems to me that meat has two meanings which are dependent on context. It is not neccessary that one meaning be right and the other is a faux pas. Both meanings appear to me to be valid and are used in different situations.--Birgitte§β ʈ Talk 23:43, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

What BirgitteSB is saying makes sense. I'd be interested to see the academic references of dantedanti, although I would have been more delighted had he volunteered them along with his claim. I might also comment that we endorse being bold, so Birgitte was actually being cautious and courteous beyond call of duty in elaborating on her edit on the talk page. - Samsara _contrib ^talk 23:50, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

even in america, the word is often used in exclusion of seafood and less often of poultry. however, the issues of "deal-meaning" (a highly inaccurate term when refering to semantic faux pas, but the easiest term to use here) is complex. this week i will consider how to address this issue in the introduction without having to add a major section on linguistics (which would be rather unnecessary). sorry i screwed up the other part in the intro. accidental on my part. i actually was found most of what you wrote decent. in thinking about this issue remember, most laypeople think they know a bit about language. however, linguistics is a pretty complex subject, much as the natural sciences are. ill see what i can do this week and also see if i can dig up some articles from the library. ciao, dantedanti.

I do not comprehend everything you are saying, but here is my opinion from limited understanding. Meat in general means animal tissue. Meat is widely but seldom used to mean muscle tissue eaten by humans to the exclusion of seafood. Narrowly within the agriculture industry meat is often used to mean slaughtered domestic animals to the exclusion of poultry and seafood. Although we must mention the broader meanings of meat in the intro, the bulk of this article will dealing with the industry definiton of meat. This simply because poultry, seafood, and game (food) have their own articles to deal with their particular topics. I suggest we completely remove the "American" reference because I believe it is false. I then propose you move the discusion of semantics to the Etomology subsection and elaborate further. As it stands I don't understand the linguistic issues and reading the links to semantics and faux pas did not enlighten me. Also I found no reference to "deal-meaning" in the semanitc articles and I do not know what you mean by that. Please note that this is now the "Collaboration of the Week," so we have a lot heads together to work on this article for a short time.--Birgitte§β ʈ Talk 14:03, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

first, we cannot talk of meat exclusivly as a trade/industry word. this is one context that the word meat is used in. the problem in fact stems from the fact that there is a need in the idustry of slaughtering animals to distinguish between red beef/pork and say seafood. However, due to the previous and more narrow use of the word in some everyday speech of meat being the flesh of animals, there is not always and not often a specific context that can allow an everyday person to distiguish the meaning another person is using when saying meat. as these definitions collide (though not all words with two meanings have their meanings collide), people often believe that fish is not the flesh of an animal (a semantic faux pas) or are often just confused as to what another person is communicating to them as the word is ambigious in many contexts. a good article, i think, for understanding some of this is "what is lexical tuning" by Wilks and Catizone Journal of Semantics 19: 167-190. perhaps i am wrong in saying the american usage alone is like this, i said this without thinking. Because i do not know the linguistical situation in british english, i had simple said in american. so i agree that maybe we should take out the word america in this article. however, it will not work to say "i read in a meat pamphlet (Etc) put out by the butchering industry that meat is not seafoood". If there is anyone else out there with a degree in linguistics, i could use some help in figuring out how to include the problem of the word meat in this article, without being confusing or including unneeded information. let me know what you guys think. thanks! dante danti.

For what it's worth: It is fairly common for American cookbooks to have separate chapters for 'meat', 'poultry', and 'seafood'. I think the intro should simply explain the word 'meat' has different meanings, depending on the context, and explain the most important differences. It doesn't make sense in this case to try and settle on a single definition, because that wouldn't reflect real world usage. ike9898 18:46, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

I never said we should talk of meat exclusivly as the industry term, however the bulk the the article will being dealing with this term. We are giving the use of meat in relation to carnivores, what else is there to say on that topic? If we talk about the benifits eating meat or how meat is proccesed, we should not include the same info that will be in the poultry or seafood article because sometimes meat is used to mean the flesh of any sort of animal. Look at this way most of the time the term meat is used is within the context of Agriculture or Cooking. Although it can be understood to mean any sort of muscle (ie lunchmeat), mostly people don't use the term in that situation. Gernerally people say they "ate beef for lunch" or "enjoy turkey sandwiches". People generaly don't use meat very often at all, they usually chose a more specific word. Of course I realize that definition exists and I want to acknowledge it. However, I don't believe we should be talking about avian flu concerns here along with Mad cow, nor do I expect to see the Jewish dietary restrictions against shellfish listed beside the restrictions against pork. This is because for the bulk of the article we are concerning ourselves with the more narrow and most often used defintion. By most often used I mean to say that if you count up all the times meat is actually used they will refering to it in this way. Granted most of those uses will be USDA publications and other things from people in the meat industry but a broader range of people are simply not likely to use the word at all. I do not understand the linguistic stuff you are talking about. You must realize most people will be visiting this page to find the slaughtering of food animals, or variety of meat processing, not the linguistic properties of the word "meat". I think the linguistic info should be here just not in the main introduction. If people are confused by the different possible meanings, then we must explain the difference. I tried to do that, but you removed my explination. Right now you are insisting we only define it as the muscle of animals with caveat that sometimes people use it to exclude seafood and poultry, but they are wrong (That is what I guess semanitic faux pas means, but I imagine it is more specific). I have no problem with variety of definitions being explained differently, but right now they are not being explained at all. Please try and re-work the paragraph yourself. If you do not want to I will try again, but as I do not understand the what a semantic faux pas is, I will not be able to work that into my version. Is there a particular reason you don't want to explain this in the Etomology section instead of the intro? Perhaps we could rename it Etomolgy and Semantics.--Birgitte§β ʈ Talk 19:37, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

"Faux pas" is not synonymous with "error." It would not be embarrassing to use the word meat to describe poultry. As the contention is that it is inaccurate to say this, then the word 'error' is more appropriate. --lazyanon 63.66.112.5 19:39, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A question of Meat.

Having a trivia section is fine but currently it stands inadequate:

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Trivia · More than 70% of non-meat eaters in the world live in India, with cows being seen as sacred · A "slab of meat" can often be a reference to the human penis.

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The second point can be subsumed by etymological discussion, where it is mentioned that “meat” has similar sexual connotations as does “flesh”.

The first point needs some reference, and I find it ambiguous, if not unconvincing. Many people in third world countries do not eat meat, or eat so little of it that they are more vegetarian than many who might label themselves so in the West not because of attachment to ethical primciples but simply because it is unavailable or just because its relative expense compared to vegetables is prohibitive. Its interesting to note the difference in cultural backgrounds and how this affects modern meat eating, but this deserves a section to itself (before or after discussions of modern taboos).

Here’s my stab at one, though it needs to be subject to collaboration:

Note: This material will need to be shortened and/or altered, I am simply running through points that I believe it is important to mention in order to explain modern attitudes towards meat.

(Areas in which I wish to relagate discussion are indicated by ****)

The taboos surrounding the eating of different types of meat largely depends on the religions and cultural history that underpin modern attitudes. In India, with a Hindui history, cows are seen as sacred and so has a high proportion of vegetarians – this explains the outrage expressed against the McDonalds burger chain when it was revealed that beef fat was used to make the french fries that Hindues there had assumed were vegetarian (this is from Fast Food Nation). The company quickly changed its production methods, but this highlights the way in which the globalisation of food industries can, when (as in this case) a certain company who supplies the meat does so in accord with the cultural standards of the country in which they are based, and not nescassarily with all of those with whom they do business, conflict with traditions surrounding food, and meat all the more so given the ethically contentious nature of the food.

Hinduism and Buddhism are both belief systems that revere animal life to the extent that they place prohibitions on using them for food *****. It is clear that the degree to which animal life is held in reverence, and who this compares to notions about “the sanctity of human life” will affect the ways in which it is seen to be permissable to treat those lives; whether it is permissible to use them for meat and if so in what ways.

Most people living in Western countries share an idealogical lineage – that of the Christian tradition. There is not unanimous agreement among modern theologians, modern Christians, or the Christians who have lived since its conception as to the spiritual status of animals, but there are biblical passages that seem to exemplify an attitude of human dominance. Examples include Jesus driving demons out of the bodies of pigs by commanding them to hurl themselves off a cliff (As Jesus, it seems plausible that a similar act could have been achieved without the sacrificing of life and the only explanation for why this was not the case seems to be that such lives are inconsequential anyway). Also, there is the order in which events took place in the Genesis story, the animals being crafted by God before woman, and ultimately Man.

The second major historical force that has influenced modern attitudes towards meat eating was the development of modern economies, and in particular, the Industrial Revolution which eventually was to make large scale consumption of meat for almost all populations, regardless of class, a reality. Eating meat in the middle ages, at least on an everyday basis, was the preserve of those wealthy enough to afford it – in particular, of the land-owning classes. In this way diet came to symbolise wealth.

The industrial revolution brought with it both a rising middle class and cheaper ways to produce meat – for example through programs of selective breeding which would yeild a higher meat:bone ratio. This made it available for often for a greater number (and proportion) of people, and since it had symbolic as well as nutritional and gastronomic value, it was valued above other forms of foodstuff – indeed it became a popular concept in the Victorian era in Great Britain that a meal was not a proper meal unless it contained meat. In the same period in London, many working class people would go hungry for half of the working week in order to afford a full Sunday roast (which includes cooked carrots and potatoes, but these are unnessential additions to what makes it a roast viz. roast beef, chicken, lamb or pork.

Meat eating was not only symbolic of economic status, but of sex to. For these same families, it was very common that the working man should demand the largest share of the meat, with the eldest son getting a sizable portion, yet the daughters and wife less. To this day a foodstuff like beefsteak is perceived as more manly (though not of more wealth) than an aubergine cassorol, and this is largely borne of our social and economic history.

At the same time as these changes in the methods of production, in the 19th Century, there were other changes that were to shape modern conceptions and controversies surrounding meat-eating. Charles Darwin wrote his Origin of the Species in 1859, and for all it was claimed to undermine Christianity, soon gained wide acceptance.

Although he claimed that his thoeries should not be used to undermine the spiritual status of Man, one can also find sentiments such as expressed in following quote taken from “Descent of Man”: "Man still bears in his bodily frame the indelible stamp of his lowly origin."

If, as the theory claims, our existence derives not from an exulted status as ordained by God, but from a common ancestry with every other animal on the planet, then this really does give less credibility to the belief that we have special privelages to use other animals for whatever means we desire.

This has radically altered the way in which those in the secular West conceive other animals in relation to ourselves – for instance when reprimanded for behaving like an animal, many children are happy to point out, “ – but I am an animal!”, which is unlikely to have occurred without the kind of conceptual shifts that the theory of natural selection allowed for.

The values of the modern animal rights movement have been codified in accordance with the theory of Natural Selection and many works (in particular the one that is taken to have inaugaurated the movement, “Animal Liberation” by Peter Singer) explicitly argue that the theory of Natural Selection is what makes their arguments against forms of mistreatment of animals plausible. Even when attitudes are expressed that criticise meat eating do not trade on the theory (perhaps they are given by a polemicist who does not believe in it), the educational background of the listeners will greatly influence their response to such an attitude. In Europe (and much of the USA) this background is one that includes the theory of Natural Selection.

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The material here (especially towards the end) needs to be much tightened, but if we wish to include Western Vegetarianism I think its important.

[edit] "Slab of meat"

Is that really common enough usage to include it here? What illuminating points arise from it? If we mentioned every sexual allusion ever made, Wikipedia would be littered with pornographic phrases. I can only guess that there are other places for compiling erotic dictionaries. - Samsara _contrib ^talk 23:54, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

I removed it. At the very least, it needs a source. Superm401 - Talk 03:19, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Controversies

I am certainly not anti-meat, but I am aware of a number of controversies surrounding meat that probably should be in the article. How about animal welfare/animal rights, use of growth promoting antibiotics and hormones, and the related subject of organic meat? There are probably others. I guess I just want opinions on whether or not these subjects belong before diving into writing them. ike9898 20:44, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

I think organic meat should have it's own section. Most of the the other controrversies should be able to be dealt within the discussion of meat production. We shouldn't go into great detail because the issues are not really universal. Many people object to feedlots and not free range animals, so we should mention and link to feedlot and move on. Mainly because feedlots are not the only way meat is produced and the details should be in the feedlot article. Same with hormones or antibotics. We can say: Many large producers administer growth hormones and antibiotics to all livestock. The growth hormones allow the animal to amass more quality muscle faster leading to higher grade meat and better prices when sent to slaughter. Antibiotics have a similar effect by reducing any subclinical infections amoung the herd. Some people object to these practices, as they believe it is unhealthy to consume meat treated these medications. Others worry that the widespread use of antibiotics is contributing to antibiotic resistance in bacteria, endangering the health of humans and livestock. That needs to be sourced but I think it is generally correct.--Birgitte§β ʈ Talk 21:46, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Topic to consider

Here is a list of topics I gleaned from chapter heading of Meat Science Books, Pamphlets, and Syllibi. They are no particular order. Some perhaps are beyond the scope of this article, but it is a place start looking at what we plan on including here. I did not repeat the cultural topics that already exist in the article so this list is purposly schewed towards more scientific topics because that is what we are lacking.

• Origins of meat animals
• Animal Production
• Biocemistry & Meat Quality
• Animal welfare on farm and at slaughter
• Meat hyginene and public health
• Meat processing & Technology
• Principles of Refrigeration & heat processing
• Factors influencing the growth & development of meat animal
• Coversion of muscle to meat
• Spoilage of meat by infecting organisms
• Storage and Preservation of meat
• Eating quality of meat
• Meat and human nutrition
• Prefabricated meat
• Constituents of meat-Muscle fibre, connective tisse, fat
• Benifts of Cooking
• HACCP-Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Point
• Uncooked Comminuted and Reformed Meat Products
• Cured Meats
• Cooked Meat and Cooked Meat Products
• Cooked Cured Meats
• Fermented Sausages
• Frozen Meat and Meat Products
• Dried Meats, Intermediated Moisture Meats and Meat Extracts
• Meat Judging
• Lipid-derived flavours in meat products
• Modelling colour stability in meat
• Packaging
• Potentially Harmful Organisms and Substances in Feedstuffs and Animal Faeces

I have general knowledge about most of these topics so if anyone doesn't undstand the scope or purpose from the blurb, let me know. --Birgitte§β ʈ Talk 02:32, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

When I get around to it, I can cover some of these topics by adding info and references from my 3 volume Encyclopedia of Meat Sciences! Some people seem think this is a strange thing to have on your bookshelf..... ike9898 20:10, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Another suggestions for an interesting topic, or at least fact: Meat is an unusually land-intensive diet item, requiring up to nearly ten times as much land as plant-based diet of similar caloric value. If i remember correctly, roughly 2/3 of the agricultural area in Europe is for growing food for animals. Accordingly, the environmental impacts of meat production are huge. I'll provide some sources later, if need be. Jens Nielsen 23:22, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

This information may be true with cattle raised for maximum growth (fed corn instead of grass). However goats can be raised by grazing on marginal lands, providing food and allowing the eviroment to stay in a natural state. I think the detailed information you have would better put in the Feedlot article, or somewhere else devoted to large-scale animal production. I think it should be mentioned in here in amoung the reasons people abstain from meat. For example: One the reasons is people object to meat is the enviromental damage done by large-scale animal production. Industralized livestock farming uses significantly more land than a plant based diet. Confined animals also produce a large amount of waste that pollutes the enviroment when not properly managed. As I said since this objection only applies to specific method of animal production so I think it should be summarized here and detailed in more specific article--Birgitte§β ʈ Talk 00:27, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Also our curiosity does "2/3 of agricultural land devoted to feed animals" limit itself to meat production or does it include dairy production and companion animals?--Birgitte§β ʈ Talk 00:34, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Disputed sections

I just marked two paragraphs disputed, because I don't think they can be supported with mainstream scientific references. In my opinion they are mostly pseudoscience. I can say for a fact that the thing about low-grade mad cow disease is someone's imagination. I'm not saying it's impossible, just that these are not verifiable facts, a requirement for Wikipedia articles. I'll leave them be for now, maybe someone can salvage something good from them. ike9898 20:06, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Passages were added by IP user; not contactable, not verifiable -> remove. - Samsara _contrib ^talk 10:40, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Good Article

This is a super-duper article. I love eating meat.

And we think you're super-duper too, whoever you are, and we just love that you love eating meat! Trivia: killing of horses for food is outlawed in California; how's that for a taboo? I was just in France, where I saw chevaline sold in a supermarket for a much higher price than beef. In Australia, I ate some kangaroo; is that considered game? Wallaby too. Mmm, wallaby! Here in Pennsylvania, I know that restaurants may serve game only if it was (rather contradictorily) farm-raised. BillFlis 02:04, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

I've eaten steak du cheval a couple of times when I went to Calais. It's lovely - has a nice tangy flavour one does not usually percieve in your ordinary steak. And no, I did not baulk even for a second at what the meat was; I was completely aware of that it was horse I was eating. Kangaroo sounds nice, too...maybe I'll try that if I get to go to Australia this year.Lady BlahDeBlah 16:31, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Structure of article

Current Structure of article:

• Intro
• Etymology
• Methods of preparation
• Nutrition and health concerns
• Taboo meat and abstention from meat
• Vitro and imitation meat

Proposed new structure

• Intro-- exists
• Etymology--exists
• Conversion of muscle to meat -- Constituents of meat (Muscle fiber, connective tissue, fat) Brief summary of lactic acid in living muscle. Rigor mortis. Build up of latic acid and changes in pH. Biochemical effects on appearance and texture. Spoilage of meat by infecting organisms. Briefest mention of the role of refrigeration and preservation at this stage
• Meat and human nutrition--Have basic information already. Summarize a balanced diet and meat place in it. Talk about essential amino acids and iron. Vitro and imitation meat and other substitutes.
• Origins Domestication of meat animals- -Brief summary of when and why humans started keeping various animals for meat. Small discussion on the advantages of ruminants (They don't compete with human for food). Possibly mention use as decoys eventual end to hunting and extermination of wild variety?
• Industrialization of Animal Production--Summary of innovations in chronological order. Factors influencing the growth & development of meat animal. Animal welfare on farm and at slaughter. Organic and ranged animal production.
• Meat processing & Technology -- From local butchers to assembly lines. Eating quality of meat (Basic Marbling and texture without getting into different cuts). Storage and Preservation of meat. Packaging and Distribution. Modeling color stability in meat.
• Methods of preparation--Purpose of preparation (prevent spoilage, tenderize, flavor) Uncooked Comminuted and Reformed Meat Products. Cured Meats (salting). Fermented Sausages. Frozen Meat and Meat Products. Dried Meats, Intermediated Moisture Meats and Meat Extracts.
• Methods and Safety in Cooking-- Cooked Meat and Cooked Meat Products. Methods of Cooking and Cooking Terms. Cooked Cured Meats. How time and method of cooking affect moisture content. Government safety recommendations for handling and cooking.
• Meat hygiene and public health. Potentially Harmful Organisms and Substances in Feedstuffs and Animal Faeces. HACCP-Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Point.
• Taboo meat and abstention from meat-- exists

What does everyone think of this organization?--Birgitte§β ʈ Talk 16:18, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Looks great! --Banana04131 03:59, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Too much linky

I like shortcuts just as much as anyone else, but this page has too many of 'em! I look on the front page right now, and I see way too many internal links. (Check the history to see if anything has changed about it before you just assume it used to be worse and someone has dealth with it.) The page is so busy, it takes forever to read 'cause your mind has to keep on jumping fourth between the blue and the black. Now this is fine for colorblind people, but it isn't for anyone else (except the totally blind and the illiterate, and they couldn't care less!). Someone, please, take the time to remove some of these links. I'm busy doing biomed cramming right now, and honestly don't have the time, and plus, even if I did it, I wouldn't know which to cut; I'd probably get told off for not doing the right ones anyway and just have the changes reversed, and I don't want to get in any edit war over a few blue internal links, I just want the paragraphs to look neater. I have no time, I cannot implement this, please, somebody else, give it a shot, and thanks very much. --72.227.103.67 07:49, 3 March 2006 (UTC) (Normally "Monk of the highest order", but I'm not signed in right now)

[edit] Catholics eating Meat

"American Catholics are only asked not to eat meat on Ash Wednesday, Good Friday and Fridays during Lent."

This should be changed as this actually goes for all Catholics. St jimmy 16:02, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Did. --Banana04131 00:44, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

:is this the same for East and west orth. cath.s? russian orth?--71.97.135.104 20:16, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Catholic Church distinction between meat and nonmeat

There's an ongoing discussion right now on Talk:Beaver about the distinction that the Roman Catholic Church draws between meat and nonmeat for the purposes of the Ash Wednesday/Good Friday/Fridays during Lent prohibition. It seems that there is some authority (based on a passage in St. Thomas Aquinas's Summa Theologica) that animals that are regarded as principally aquatic (including fish, and presumably including beavers) are treated as nonmeat for this purpose, and it seems that there is some authority (see citations in the Beaver article and additional references in Talk:Beaver) that the Church continues to adhere to this distinction. The notion that "the Church thinks that beavers are fish" seems too silly to some. Come check out the discussion at Talk:Beaver.Spikebrennan 14:50, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removed

I removed "Meat is also an euphemism for flesh." because it's factually incorrect. It's not a euphemism its a synonym. St jimmy 10:48, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Meat can also refer to the main part of something, even a vegie, eg. The meat of a watermelon is the red inner portion.--71.97.135.104 20:30, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Grain fed vs. Grass fed red meat re: bowl cancer

According to the article bowl cancer is the main bad thing about meat and it says this is related to animal fat content. Does anyone have any info on the relative difference between grass and grain fed red meat in terms of fat content and type of fat and if there are any studies comparing grain fed meat-eaters to grass fed meat-eaters? Perhaps we could compare differences between Aussie studies (where almost all meat is grass fed) to european or american studies? The bellman 03:57, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cannibalism

There was a sentence or two on cannibalism (in the section on taboos against meat consumption) that said the word cannibal would be a perjorative in some cultures. This almost suggests a value judgement of the same kind of significance as, say, whether or not it is okay to use someone else's toothbrush. I think even fervent moral relativists would agree that you have to draw the line somewhere, so I have rephrased. Kyle Cronan 21:59, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] OFTEN

the word meat is not "often" restrictive. it is sometimes restrictive in certain contexts, usually those involving purchasing meat at a butcher's or at a meat packing facility. To use the word "often", without a disclaimer of context, is misleading, inaccurate, and confusing. thanks.

Dante Danti

[edit] Manure?

Well, I'm not a native english speaker, so maybe I'm way off here. But doesn't "manure" mean exclusively "animal excrements used as fertilizers"?, and if so, aren't the following article excerpts the result of vandalism, and shouldn't they be fixed? :

"but it may also refer to non-muscle organs, including lungs, livers, skin, brains, bone marrow, manure and kidneys"

"Mad in Danish, and mat in Swedish and Norwegian, still mean manure today"

And from the little norwegian I know, "mat" means food... 83.45.161.35 22:00, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Good catch. Yeah, I think it was just vandalism which this page gets a lot of, for some reason. In the future though, remember to "be bold". If you're pretty sure something is wrong, as above, you don't need anyone's approval to change it yourself. Ideally if you'll fill in the edit summary to expain your rationale breifly. ike9898 01:38, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

/me doesn't point fingers at certain groups (both progressive and traditionalist) and doesn't vanish stealthily from the talk page 24.205.34.217 00:38, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

"The word meat is also used by the meat packing and butchering industry in a more restrictive sense - the flesh of mammalian species (pigs, cattle, ducks, etc.) raised and butchered for human consumption, to the exclusion of seafood, fish, poultry, game, and insects." The sentence just contradicted itself, stating ducks as mammalian and then proceeding to exclude it from poultry. Perhaps the intent was to refer to "domesticated" species instead of "mammalian."

68.123.207.183 19:56, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

What?

"Mad in Danish, and mat in Swedish and Norwegian, still mean sex in the anus."

This looks like pointless vandalism to me; quotations in other discussion topics suggest that this originally read "Mad in Danish, and mat in Swedish and Norwegian, still mean manure.

[edit] Reasons

I think we need a section for why people prefer to eat meat as to being a vegetarian. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by AppleJordan (talk • contribs) 15:44, 26 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Consumption Graph

I know it's probably inferred by the graph, however, what multiplier is supposed to be used by the amount consumed, is it Millions, thousands, tens of thousands, or something else? It also doesn't indicate if it's the average person's consumption per year or the entire populace. If it is just pounds per year, perhaps a bit more clarity is in order. A person skimming the article might not understand the connection unless they read the entire thing, or download the entire document related. I'll guess that most people won't do that.

PS: New to wikipedia, so if this is the wrong way to do this, let me know.

PPS: The image itself credits the data source, but does not link it.

-Alexander.Morou 07:37, 4 March 2007 (UTC) [Time Shift: 3/4/2007 01:34 at GMT -06:00]