Talk:Nerf (computer gaming)
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I question this article's focus on nerfing as changes to item rarity and especially botting (I've never heard it directly applied to bots). From what I've seen, players use the word to emphasize the replacing of one aspect of the game with another, weaker one (for balancing or fixing bugs/"exploits"). For example, in the context of EQ, I don't remember anyone calling it a nerf when Jboots stopped being lootable (same with Rubicite and the Box of Abu). But when they gimped "damage over time" spells the "DoT nerf" was the biggest discussion topic, or when the replaced the "Pumice Stone" item with a weaker version there was the "pumice nerf".
Basically, the article should cite significant examples from games like UO and WarCraft. I don't want to change the theme of the article without explanation, but the examples that I can recall or find have little to do with bots. --Mrwojo 19:03, 11 Dec 2003 (UTC)
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[edit] Gathering resources to sell on-line
Additionally, there are many professional players that play for the explicit purpose of gathering resources to sell on-line at places such as eBay. (emphasis added)
I can't see the need for the bolded bit. Brianjd 09:02, 2004 Dec 22 (UTC)
- I changed it to be more generic, yet more descriptive:
- ...resources to sell at e-commerce websites.
- --Mrwojo 14:56, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
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- The industry-standard term for this is RMT, I've updated it to reflect this. Hippoking 22:19, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Economic effects of nerfing
Nerfing the drop rate of an item merely increases the scarcity, driving up the price, and increasing the profits from botting in this manner.
This has to wrong. Nerfing affects both demand (since players don't get the items they want) and supply (the nuumber of items the bots get) the same way, so the profitability should not be affected, right?
- "Nerfing the drop rate" alone (as in simply decreasing the drop rate, which doesn't quite fit how it's defined here) would just increase rarity, but nerfing the drop rate and item quality would affect supply and demand. Demand might even increase exponentially, if the item becomes a status symbol. And now that I think of it, this article could do with a section on "pre-nerf." --Varuka 17:52, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
- I agree, there's a lot of speculation in this article. For example, let's say the drop rate was reduced to 10% of its original, yet the value of the item only increased by 100%. The bot may get double the value for the item, but it only gets 10% as many, causing a net loss. Need to remove this sort of speculation from the article, it doesn't belong in wikipedia. --JRavn 17:42, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] General
This article is terribly written - can someone fix this?
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I corrected a small mistake in the article stating UO was the first MMORPG (as you can see in the MMORPG article, there were several before hand), as well as changing the claim from being "origin" to "popularized," because I'm fairly sure the term was sparringly used (but "castrated" was the prefered term) on Meridian59 beforehand. --Varuka 17:52, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Is any weakening a nerf?
It seemed to me that the term is properly used only when something (typically a weapon) is weakened to a dramatic degree such that it is arguably (or obviously) no longer effective. This generally includes the notion that the item's presence in the game is now pretty meaningless as it is clearly underperforming compared to other choices. I haven't really heard the term used to describe typically minor adjustments that bring the item in line with others but rather when the item is brought down well beneath its kin... especially when its something that looks very dangerous but now isn't.
Am I the only one who thinks 'nerf' is more narrowly defined than this article suggests?
Btw... often, it seems, this is a circumstance of a developer getting wasted by some online player who is simply very skilled, and the developer consequently decides that particular weapon must be too powerful and nerfs it. Increasingly modern games are starting to generate a lot of statistical information, however. So developers can make adjustments based on real data rather than just how frustrated they feel after playing online themselves... sometimes those decisions have been more based on frustration than good judgement.
[edit] Overkill...
'Nerf' is an off-hand, slang term at best. Is a discussion on game balance with the word 'Nerf' in place of normal terms like 'reduction' really appropriate? Reducing the potency of something is not concept unique to gaming, even with a different word . The following:
Nerfs are often implemented as an anti-botting tactic. A classic scenario is a situation where a player runs a bot to gather items of loot by killing monsters repeatedly. Nerfing the drop rate of monsters seems like a reasonable solution to lower the incentive for botting. However, this may also harm legitimate players, as they now have a much lower reward for their play time. Meanwhile, any loot gathered by a bot is sufficient to induce continued botting. Excessive nerfing may also frustrate legitimate players to the point where they begin botting themselves, simply so they can spend their time playing instead of constantly gathering resources. Additionally, there are many professional players that play for the explicit purpose of gathering resources to sell at e-commerce websites. Nerfing the drop rate of an item merely increases the scarcity, driving up the price, and increasing the profits from botting in this manner. Sometimes designers will nerf objects that are particularly useful in powerleveling. This is to prevent players from rapidly levelling characters to be sold off on e-commerce websites.
could go in a section about online games perhaps? But not under the header "Nerf," which probably should be Wiki-dictionaried anyway.
86.135.158.232 04:09, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
- I disagree. Articles about other concepts such as ageism and semantics could be summed up in fewer words than nerfing, but that doesn't mean they don't belong in a encyclopedia. If people can provide the theory, history, and detail to back it up, why not have the wikipedia entry? - Varuka 19:26, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
- because the people who write articles like this are nerds, and are putting far too much time and whatnot into a trivial term. GG nerds —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.57.195.9 (talk) 21:49, 20 January 2007 (UTC).
[edit] Non-computer games
I play several tabletop roleplaying games and the term 'nerfing' is in common use. The name of the article could be changed to simply "Nerf (gaming)" to reflect this.
