Talk:Roaring Twenties

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A Wikipedian removed Roaring Twenties from the good article list. There are suggestions below for improving areas to satisfy the good article criteria. Once the objections are addressed, renominate the article as a good article. If you disagree with the objections, you can seek a review.
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Roaring Twenties was the collaboration of the week for the week starting on May 30, 2005.

For details on improvements made to the article, see history of past collaborations.

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[edit] Discussions

I started different topics, I'm sure I'm leaving stuff out. Also, where should the womens first election to vote, and the suffering of the Agriculture industry go? 12.220.47.145 03:07, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

It's late where I live, so I need to stop. But the Red Scare, and Morality of the Roaring Twenties should be adde in. Thx. Falphin 03:21, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Hopefully I will be able to add some of these when I get back tongight. We also need to add a section about Immigrant life during the Roaring Twenties if info can be found on that and African American life during the Roaring Twenties. Falphin 13:10, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
- It would also be nice to have a section title "Symbols of the Roaring Twenties". Falphin 01:23, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Umm, could you PLEASE paste the sites that you used for this research because I'm doing a project on the 20s and 30s in Canada.

[edit] elsewhere

It's a good article, but too much concentrated on the USA. If you try searching in Google "roaring twenties Britain" or other countries there was quite a sense of roaringness elsewhere too jm

[edit] Returning solders

I'm going somewhere with this... It's a start. Maybe someone can help tie it in. It's late here too.

Also, I know that Prohibition was a part of the culture, but it was also part of the cause too... Needs to be moved back up. Maybe split into three parts: Prohibition (in Causes), Speakeasies (in Culture), and 21th Amendment (under Stock Market Crash, or End of the Twenties) ℬastique▼^talk 04:15, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

I agree Falphin 13:11, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Introduction & Sections

I thank you all for initiating the discussion. I feel the article should have a small beginning of few sentences, encapsulating the time and spirit of Roaring Twenties. I will try to do that and all are invited to re-edit the same as may be required. I will also try to rearrange and rephrase the sections/sub-sections, but that will be done very slowly. I will try to expand certain sections. Let us come closer to create a really remarkable article.--Bhadani 14:43, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

- I have placed few introductory words/also updated this article's area in the Community portal. I shall continue to add further edits to the article during the week. --Bhadani 16:48, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Should the

Kellog-Briand pact and Washington Naval treaties be included on this page?. Falphin 13:14, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

We should remember that this is not the 1920s or the History of the United States (1918-1945) article. My understanding of the Roaring Twenties is that it was mainly a cultural and economic notion, not really a political one. There wasn't much Jazz Age about Calvin Coolidge. I thus feel we should keep the politics content to minimum. - SimonP 13:54, Jun 1, 2005 (UTC)

Your right. Falphin 14:38, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I kinda agreee, but the problem is that these acts aren't talked about in either article.

[edit] Key Figures

I'm not sure whether Bobby Jones or John Logie Baird are necessarily important here. The other four figures are critical because of the events surrounding the article:

Al Capone: His reason for being here goes without saying.
Mae West: Famous actress, was convicted of obscenity charges. Key figure--the morals question and changing roles of women.
Charles Lindberg: Changing technology, crossed the Atlantic, major celebrity
Will Rogers: cowboy-humorist, wrote a widely read column during the 1920s. Very much a part of the culture. Had a lot to say.

Bobby Jones: Not sure who this is because the link leads to a disambiguation page. If he is the golfer, then he doesn't belong here, because golf as a sport does not figure into the culture of the Roaring Twenties.

John Logie Baird was the Scottish engineer who invented the television in very late 20s--which didn't enter into wide use until much later. He doesn't really figure into the article at all.

IMHO of course ℬastique▼^talk 19:12, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Personally I could see a case made for Bobby Jones the golpher.(The basketball player wasn't born until the 50's and the others I have never heard of). Since he represented, IMHO American prosperity and ideals during the 20's. As for John Logie Baird I don't think he belongs in the article at all. Of course this is also IMHO. :) Falphin 21:38, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Canadian politics during the 1920s

Can someone tie this into the article? It's just kind of sitting there, explaining nothing but itself. What about the economy of Canada, and how Canadian authorities dealt with all the liquor illegally leaving its borders? This is more in tune with the article.

- This article isn't about everything that happened in the 1920s. It is about the events, lifestyle and culture that made it the Roaring Twenties. ℬastique▼^talk 21:33, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Reverted edits

I reverted annon user 69.231.249.12 edits because of the massive rewording and some content take outs. It can be discussed here. Falphin 16:36, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I agree with the revert --Fenice 17:41, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Introduction

To begin with the article was without any introduction. I created few words of Introduction. Now, I feel we have a large introduction of 3 paragraphs. Introduction may be made more compact. Some portion of the matrials may be placed under a separate Section. We may think of such a move and decide the name of that section. This is just a suggestion.--Bhadani 18:04, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- For such a long article three paragraphs is fine. Long intros are actually required for featured articles. See today's Papal Tiara page, for instance. - SimonP 18:21, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)
  - I agree, eventually this topic will likely reach the Featured Article Status because of all the info on the topic, decreasing the size of the introduction is just a going in the oppoisite direction. Falphin 18:53, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  - After the COTW is over this should probably be sent to Peer review. Of course it is going to need more references but I imagine it will get good remarks. Falphin 18:56, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
    - Ok, now I understand the position. Yes, it is fine because only a long introduction shall be able to introduce the topic well. Good. Thanks for clearing my doubts about introduction. And, sure, each one of us should continue to refine this article till it becoames a Featured one. --Bhadani 01:58, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Geographical balance?

"American historical period" or "North American historical period"...is/should this article (be) only about the US or does/should it also include Canada in a significant way? ~ Dpr 20:24, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It should be North American, the Roaring 20s are just as much a part of Canadian history as American. The new ideas mostly originated in the U.S, but they quickly made their way north. In terms of the economy the 20s were even more of a boom decade in Canada than in the United States. A question I haven't been able to answer is if the term can also accurately be applied to Europe. Some books and websites seem to, but everything I have read does not indicate that the decade was particularly booming outside NA. - SimonP 21:15, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure whether the actual literal term Roaring Twenties is used much in the UK. The German (Golden) and the French term (Golden or crazy years) are no literal translations of roaring, but the mentality they are trying to describe are exactly the same, even to some extent the economical surge (thus the word golden), (no prohibition though). These terms are also well known, they are not rare. --Fenice 22:54, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I have been taught the phrase (GCSE history) as solely referring to the US in the Twenties. smoddy 22:49, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The Canadians were involved. Where do you think US joints got their liquor? ℬastique▼^talk 22:52, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The term "roaring twenties" seems to have been used in the UK as well, see here [1], [2], [3].--Fenice 09:34, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I don't think it makes sense to split the article.--Fenice 09:40, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I think it makes perfect sense to split the articles into Europe and North America (i.e. make one for Europe). As it is now the article only talks about North America (excluding Mexico). As mentioned in this article there was a Golden Twenties era in Europe too. Look at the French and German interwiki articles. And Great Britain's culture certainly sparked up in that period too I suppose. As it is now, American hegemony is too big -- and the article too.--Phlebas 14:09, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)

Well the solution is not really to complain about it, but to add the appropriate content. So if it focuses too much on the U.S., it's not because other content is actively being kept out. I think every editor here would welcome relevant content from Canada or even the UK if it's appropriate. Be bold. —thames 00:51, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Florid prose

Language like "The decade encapsulates a fascinating story" is subjective and adds no information to the article. It makes it read too much like an essay or an emotion-laden summary - should be edited out. --Tothebarricades.tk 03:54, Jun 5, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Swing?

Ought Swing (really Lindy Hop) music and culture be a part of this article? —thames 15:31, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Lindy Hop belongs to the thirties.--Fenice 09:36, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

If you read the Lindy Hop article, it started in 1927. It can certainly be mentioned. —thames 00:51, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I agree. The way it is presented in the text now is really excellent.--Fenice 07:57, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Marlene Dietrich

<Jun-Dai 21:45, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)> Was the U.S. really even aware of Dietrich before the 30s? </Jun-Dai>

Agreed! Why is there an image of Dietrich? I think most people tend to associate her more with the 1930s than the Roaring Twenties. I think it would be better to find another image of an iconic twenties actress like Louise Brooks or Clara Bow. ExRat 20:53, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moved???

Its not known as the 1920's in North America but the Roaring Twenties, why was this moved???? Falphin 02:51, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Ask SPUI. Mike H 02:53, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

The article is about the 1920s in North America. An article at Roaring Twenties should talk about the term and its use, while this title reflects that the article talks about the 1920s in North America in general. --SPUI (talk) 03:00, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The Roaring Twenties is a cultural period. My four main reasons for keeping it at the Roaring Twenties spot.

Nobody refers to the period that way
It is not a time period but a cultural period
It was agreed upon this way at the COTW.
This isn't about everything that happened in the 1920's in NA but what is considered significant about the Roaring Twenties. --Falphin 03:02, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Speculation and crash

When I first read this article this morning, I found that the neither the word "speculation" nor the word "crash" appeared in the article, which I thought was a remarkable oversight. I inserted a brief section on speculation, which was largely reverted by Will Beback, for reasons which escape me. I have restored it, and invite discussion here. --HK 01:24, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

I didn't revert it, I moved it to one of the sections which already covered the economic aspects of the era. It is more helpful there rather than as a two-sentence, one paragraph section. The crash is already covered in a longer section towards the end, which already uses the word "speculative". Except for the word "speculation" and an essay by an Austrian-School economist the material was redundant. -Will Beback 01:30, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't think a little redundancy will hurt. These issues were seriously underemphasized in the article. --HK 07:43, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fashion and the changing role of women:

I am rather puzzled by the fllowing sentence in the section 'Fashion and the changing role of women':

"In Europe, this look featured women with short hair (Bubikopf) for the first time; in the U.S., the bob was introduced by actress Louise Brooks in the late 1920s."

I do not belive this to be correct information. While Louise Brooks is renowned for her bobbed hair, so was Colleen Moore, Leatrice Joy and numerous others. While Brooks may be recalled for her bobbed hair, I do not believe she "introduced" it to the American public. Also, the bob came into vogue much earlier than the late 1920s as photographs of my grandmother and her sisters from 1922 show - they are all teenagers and all have quite severe bobbed haircuts. ExRat 20:44, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dietrich and the "Fashion" section.

I changed the "request for a speedy deletion" photograph of Marlene Dietrich with one of actress Louise Brooks who I feel more accurately protrays the "ideal" look of 1920s fashion. Also, as mentioned above, while Dietrich was quite popular in the late 20's, her androgynous look became more popular in the early 1930s and not in the 1920s. ExRat 22:46, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Delisted GA

This article did not go through the current GA nomination process. Looking at the article as is, it fails on criteria 2b of the GA quality standards. No references are provided and the citation of sources is essential for verifiability. Most Good Articles use inline citations. I would recommend that this be fixed, to reexamine the article against the GA quality standards, and to submit the article through the nomination process. --RelHistBuff 12:27, 9 August 2006 (UTC)soorrrry man be al ittle nicer

[edit] Merge with Golden Twenties

Should this page be merged with Golden Twenties? - jlao⁰⁴ 12:09, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't think so. This article principally addresses an era in the U.S., while the other article covers a slightly different time period in Germany. -Will Beback 21:56, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Also, we have an article which covers the whole decade from a global perspective, 1920s. -Will Beback 22:06, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. - jlao⁰⁴ 01:27, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Remove img in Overview section

I propose to remove the image in the Overview section as it is of a terrible quality. - jlao⁰⁴ 11:57, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

We already have a good drawing of fashions. I don't think it adds much. -Will Beback 21:25, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Questionable comments in first paragraph, last sentence

Could someone please check this article? There are some questionable statements and vandals have been hitting article. Ronbo76 15:24, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalization February 14, 2007]

I wonder why this is getting a lot of hits? Ronbo76 19:14, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Capitalization of "Roaring Twenties"

In my opinion, "roaring twenties" should not be capitalized. It is not a proper name. --Jeremy Butler 13:26, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

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