User talk:Severa

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Hey there...are you coming or going? you can hardly decide? anyway, something for you O_Crime_do_Padre_Amaro on the abortion subject....from 1875 if you are tired of the Abortion subject Portugal could use a few native english speakers....Galf 08:46, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Going, sorry. It was fun working on a few articles together. I look forward to seeing more of your Portugal-related translations around the English Wikipedia -- they're interesting reads! -Severa (!!!) 15:24, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry to see you go...I could really use a proofreader....low stress, high yield? goog luck on your future projects Galf 17:22, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

I'll see what I can do, maybe, when I have the time. You're definitely right about proofreading being a lower stress pursuit. :-) -Severa (!!!) 12:07, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fetal pain

Just letting you know that I have reached the last straw with Ferrylodge again, and I am currently not working on any content disputes that involve him. I've let Ferrylodge "win". While I disagree with a number of recent changes by Ferrylodge, I"m not going to edit or discuss them because I do not have the energy nor the desire to deal with interacting with Ferrylodge. If Ferrylodge's edits are really as bad as I see them, then one day someone will come along and notice them and take up the fight. If not, then the content stays and I have already moved on. It's tough, but I don't know what I can do. I'm glad to see you back and editing again, but I really wish that you weren't involved with a dispute with Ferrylodge right now at Talk:Abortion. I wouldn't wish that for anyone. Good luck, and I hope that you are stronger than I was.-Andrew c 22:11, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I agree completely that wikipedia should work on consensus and compromise. However, I feel the content disputes with Ferrylodge are too personal for me. I cannot handle that sort of stress, so I am backing down, for now. It's things like being called a vandal because I switched a bad image with a good image at Fetus. I specifically made the proposal to reinsert an image and no one opposed it. However, I waited a month to make sure everyone had a chance to comment. After having a comment on my talk page that the current rat fetus image was bad, it inspired my to implement my proposal which no one opposed. So I restored the cat fetus image. But because of this, I was called a vandal. After an admin pointed it out, Ferrylodge finally admitted that my actions clearly were not vandalism under wikipedia policy, but still did not apologize (and went on to say me edits were in bad faith and so on). Also, Ferrylodge incorrectly claimed that 3 people had previously opposed the catfetus image, and I proved that not a single person opposed that image, yet I get no apology or acknowledgment for that either. And it's little things, like I have admitted when I have been wrong in the past, so because of that Ferrylodge throws comments like How many times have you already apologized to me for getting your facts wrong? at me. I get called a vandal, I get Why do you violate Wikipedia policies and all these accusations. NONE of this stuff has occurred on user talk, but on article talk pages. On user talk, I was called a liar and a slanderer. The list goes on and on. While having lived through some very heated content disputes (the BCE vs BC over at Jesus, the RCC vs CC over at Catholic Church, the first paragraph business at abortion), I've never once had so much personal animosity towards me from another user. I think part of the problem is these disputes are going on at smaller articles, so its basically me vs. him, when the larger articles have dozens of editors contributing to the discussions. I have tried to get more input with RfCs and solicitations from the reference desk and wikiprojects, but only a few users have shown up, and many leave after a comment or two. So I'm at a point where I cannot face these disputes alone. Just thought I'd explain a bit, and it's turned into this rant. Sorry about that. Anyway, thanks for everything.-Andrew c 23:12, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Come on, if you dealt with Cindery, you can handle Ferrylodge :) Which pages are in question? Are you referring to fetal pain? That sounds like about as productive a topic for an article as number of angels capable of dancing simultaneously on the head of a pin. I'm happy to take a look, although I'm currently a little worn out with my ongoing peripheral participation in a lengthy ArbCom case. MastCell 23:22, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

1. Andrew c: Your post here isn't a rant. I completely sympathize with your concerns, because I've had similar experiences. On Talk:Fetus, I raised several objections against the photograph of a plastic model of a fetus which Ferrylodge wanted to add to the article (see this diff). Ferrylodge's response was to repeatedly present what I had said out of context, forming my words into a strawman, by implying that the only reason I objected to the photo was because of a wedding ring. In fact, I'd objected for several reasons, least of which was the distracting composition of the image, and this misrepresentation of what I had said is not something which I can attribute to a benign oversight on his part. Discussions with Ferrylodge often take a distinct turn for the circular. This I could manage, I suppose, although it is certainly counterproductive, but it's the habitual defensiveness on Ferrylodge's part that is the main issue. He has never AGF on my part — not since the very beginning, when he was blocked for 3RR on Abortion by User:InShaneee, a ban which he immediately chose to pin on me, despite the fact that InShaneee explained he had blocked Ferrylodge of his own choice, acting independently of me (see this diff). Ferrylodge has never acknowledged this fact, even when the anon from Vaccine controversy dredged this incident up last week (see this diff). I just wish Ferrylodge would bury the hatchet. Wikipedia is a community-driven project, you have work with people, not against them, to get anything done.

2. MastCell: Articles Ferrylodge has edited substantially since late December 2006 include: Stillbirth (pushing to have "stillbirth" redefined to include miscarriages beginning at 8 weeks), Abortion, Abortion in the United States, Roe v. Wade, Fetus, Fetal pain, Late-term abortion (pushing to have "late-term abortion" redefined to include anything after 8 weeks, using his own op-ed piece as a citation), and Beginning of pregnancy controversy. These edits are not isolated or new, and, if you're up for a challenge, we could use your help. While I disagree with your assessment of Fetal pain — I don't think it's a lost cause, it could certainly be made into something neutral, informative, and well-referenced under the right circumstances — the image of angels dancing on a pinhead made me laugh. :-) -Severa (!!!) 00:32, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't make a habit of jumping into other people's discussion pages, and do so rarely. However, I did notice this discussion, because the section header "fetal pain" came up on my watchlist (I have edited the fetal pain article recently). So, given that I saw this discussion, I'm unsure whether I have some duty to be quiet and say nothing, or speak up. So here's a middle course: please feel free to contact me at my talk page to discuss any of these issues. I deny the accusations, and am more than willing to discuss them if anyone here would like.Ferrylodge 00:47, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Umm... I appreciate that you have bit your tongue for the time being and had the courtesy to say the above and be civil at it. It is hard to have people talk about you (behind your back even) and fight back the urge to defend yourself or go on the counter-attack. Thanks for that. However, I do not believe that you "don't make a habit of jumping into other people's discussion pages". For example:

• 00:05, 25 January 2007 GTBacchus
• 03:43, 28 January 2007 SandyGeorgia *
• 18:09, 15 February 2007 Andrew c
• 02:55, 22 February 2007 Vassyana
• 3:48, 23 February 2007 Musical Linquist

It seems that more times than not, if there is a content dispute you are involved in, or if someone mentions you on another's talk page, you are much more likely to "jump into other people's discussion pages" than you are not. I think the only exception is 30 December 2006 InShaneee (Ferrylodge's name was mentioned, but he didn't show up to comment). Anyway, I have tried working with you and I am fed up right now. You are acting nice and civil now, but I fear that won't be the case always. I'd rather not deal with you than start a dialogue with you that gets you worked up and ends up with accusations pointed at me. Your civility and wikiquette have improved some over the past few months, but old habits die hard.-Andrew c 15:58, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Believe what you will, Andrew c. I'd rather not deal with you too.Ferrylodge 16:13, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

1. Ferrylodge: It might be helpful to acknowledge that you do seem to have a habit of jumping in on other people's talk pages — this can demonstrated by example diffs, as Andrew c posted above. Whether you meant to do this consciously is another matter and you are welcome to contest my earlier conclusions that you intended to upset the apple-cart. But there is definitely a discernable pattern of jumping in, which other users can find troubling. You may want to consider being more mindful of this in the future. Consider starting a new thread to raise your concerns directly to the person on that person's talk page, instead of posting on whichever talk page on which they have posted.
2. Andrew c: Per your edit summary, I don't believe in removing content from user talk pages, unless it's vandalism or something added by a spambot. Moving the two posts above would break up the flow of this discussion, but, as those two posts aren't really addressed to me, I'd ask that should you and Ferrylodge feel like continuing this dialogue, that you please do it on either of your talk pages. Thanks. -Severa (!!!) 22:35, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Severa, look, I don't know if you're inviting me to say more here, or advising me not to say anything here. Andrew c cited five examples without links:

[Duplicated list removed. See above for the list].

Perhaps it would be helpful if he would include links, if you want us to dissect those particular instances. In any event, five instances in the course of a lifetime does not constitute a habit. Was I addressing GTBacchus, SandyGeorgia, Andrew c, Vassyana, and Musical Linguist in those instances, or was I addressing someone else? Andrew c does not say, and you imply that I only would have been committing a faux pas if I was addressing someone else. If this is the best you can do in terms of criticizing me, you do not seem to have much.Ferrylodge 22:45, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Andrew c provided examples with timestamps that should make locating the diffs in question easy. Nonetheless I took the liberty of linking to the diffs. -Severa (!!!) 02:44, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

And, yes, I realize that edit constituted "removing content," before someone points that out, but the information was already available above, and this thread is already on the long-ish side. -Severa (!!!) 02:48, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Assessments

You're quite welcome! You're actually the first to notice my mad mission to reduce assessment backload. I'm wildly careening from project to project, from India to Gliding to Finland to Gospel Music and more. I'm in an assessing mood, and wanted a lil' break from WP:NRHP. Me and my short attention span! *lol*

Just so you know, I have a tendency to rate low. Sometimes my stubs are what others would consider starts, and my starts might be thought B by some. I figure, though, at least they're rated, and the projects can go from there. Thanks for the thanks, and keep on keepin' on. :) --Ebyabe 23:35, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Whoa, you're on an assessment mission, indeed! I checked your contrib history and your last 1000 or more edits are all assessments! I tend to eye things on my watchlist like a hawk, so it's hard for me not to notice things. WPAbortion is a small WikiProject, so it's sort of difficult for us to get tasks done, due to the volume of work to be completed and the shortage of people available to complete it all. I really appreciate the fact that you took the time to help us out! -Severa (!!!) 00:42, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discussions

I appreciate your efforts to communicate and maintain harmony with me. My personal life has been stressful lately and it has leaked into my Wiki experience. Please excuse me if it has bothered you.

I have clarified my view on one of the categorization schemes at Category_talk:Abortifacients. Please read it and let me know what you think. I have lost the link to the discussion of the entire categorization structure if you would like to remind me. Thank you. Joie de Vivre 00:22, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Portugal...

There's Censorship in Portugal to proofread, Quinta das Lágrimas to AfD the Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (Portuguese-related articles) to improve, there's Flag of Portugal to feature. want my personal advice? if stressed, keep away from your regular articles.....Galf 08:08, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Va-cay

Severa, I saw your comment at Andrew c's page. In all seriousness, I hope you have a good vacation. I hope it gives you some space to chill out. Joie de Vivre 19:49, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Looks like your friend is active again on vaccine controversy and elsewhere. I've studiously avoided vaccine-related articles up till now (for the same reason I avoid water fluoridation controversy and its ilk, and abortion-related articles for that matter), but it looks like I'm getting sucked in. Hope things have quieted down on your end with a well-deserved Wikibreak. MastCell ^Talk 16:45, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cane Corso page

Dear Severa,

Thank you for your assistance on the Cane Corso page! There have been several users who have been deleting content on this page without reason:

(Feb 2007) 64.52.227.138 - This user added a link to canecorsoworkingclub.com so perhaps it is the owner of that site, David and Stacey Kuneman?

(Mar 2007) Zoe DeVita (aka 69.204.223.67, 69.204.211.47 and perhaps even 68.198.8.214) - This user has REPEATEDLY deleted content and has been replacing it with a link to her personal dog breeder website. I have sent her a message through her talk page as follows:

"FYI, Wikipedia does NOT permit external links to personal web pages such as your dog breeder website. It is also proper etiquette to refrain from deleting photos that are within Wikipedia's guidelines simply due to any personal vendetta you may have."

She has not responded to me, but continues to act against Wikipedia's etiquette and guidelines.

Any further assistance or guidance you provide will be greatly appreciated...thank you!

User talk:Canecorso

[edit] Abortion in Switzerland

Sorry, Switzerland is not in the EU, so I had to revert your category change. Maybe a Category:Abortion in Europe would be more sensible than a Category:Abortion in the European Union? Sandstein 20:34, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. I've deleted the latter, now empty category. Sandstein 21:29, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for taking care of it so promptly, and for calling this deficiency in the former category's title to my attention. -Severa (!!!) 21:40, 29 March 2007 (UTC)